Mark Smich: Innocent Dupe? Alternative Theories

[Alethea Dice]

What we know from MSM...

DM and MS were identified as the two suspects who approached TB's home and entered his vehicle in his driveway for a test drive. DM in the front seat driving, TB in the passenger seat and MS in the backseat.

DM's Yukon was seen on video following TB's truck out of the area of his home but was not seen on video following the truck in Brantford. No 3rd person was ever arrested.

TB's remains were found in DM's incinerator on DM's farm.

TB's truck was found in DM's trailer in DM's mother's driveway.

CN has been charged with assisting DM to escape in some way. (not MS, just DM)

MWJ has been charged with supplying a gun to DM (not MS, just DM)

DM has been charged with the murder of LB. He was her last contact. He has a co-accused whom she did not contact. But MS did stay in DM's basement and may have been there if LB made her way to DM's home that long holiday weekend.

DM acquired a burner phone and used it to make the calls for the test drives. MS did not contact anyone with regards to them selling a truck. MS sat in the backseat for both test drives.

DM hid his vehicle away from the home and place of business of the truck owners he contacted for test drives and walked up to both addresses, with MS. DM did all the talking.

DM has been charged with the first degree murder of his father. He stands alone on that charge.

He is a suspect in three first degree murders. He is being analyzed and picked apart with a fine tooth comb. That's what we do here. MS is as well but there is just not that much on him.

I've posted on a few occasions that MS is definitely not innocent in any wrong doing on the TB case IMO and I've not had one poster dispute that. I think most, if not all, concede that he knew he was getting involved in nefarious activities, but based on the evidence, just how much did he know he was getting involved in? As for the LB murder, we have nothing to go on there other than the fact that she contacted DM and both be and MS were eventually charged with her murder.

People argue because based on the above FACTS, DM's participation screams leader and there have been no common sense scenarios presented that he wasn't. The pretzel twisting of facts and just plain inventing some based on speculation and opinion just isn't convincing anyone other than a select few that DM is not the main perpetrator of both murders that MS was also involved in.

We're also dealing with two separate murders here. There may be some who believe that in the TB case, MS was brought along for the ride strictly to drive the Yukon away from TB's home after DM made a decision to buy the truck. To drive it back home to Maple Gate. It doesn't appear as though MS has been implicated by any of the evidence of the aftermath of TB's murder, other than his charge. Brilliant criminal genius or innocent dupe?

Maybe the thread should be renamed "Mark Smich, Not Innocent But Possibly Duped"?

MOO

Well, there might be a couple of things in your list that have never been confirmed by LE, and at least one that has never been mentioned by LE or in MSM, but I won't argue those points. I'm not saying that no one should analyze and pick apart DM. But if one truly wants to analyze, one should be willing to allow others to disagree with some of the points used in that analysis. An analysis is generally defined as breaking something down into elements and working backward to arrive at something known to be true. One cannot arrive at a "true" result if one only uses their own opinion in that analysis. It then only becomes "this is my opinion and you are not entitled to yours".

As for MS's involvement, all we have are people's opinions. LE basically stopped having any news conferences once he was arrested and, therefore, there has been very little released in regard to him. Does that mean his involvement is minimal or he was unaware? No, it simply means that, due to the timing, we have very little information to go by for him. Perhaps the things in MSM would have been different if he happened to be the first one arrested, or if he was the one who owned the property rather than just knowing the owner.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I said he TRIED to deny it. He admitted eventually that they spoke once or twice after being told about the phone records, even though her records indicate 8 calls.

MOO

ETA quote...



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

First he denies ALL the calls. Then he says MAYBE we spoke once or twice (still not admitting). Then he's confronted withe the records and admits that he did speak to her. He was admitting nothing until confronted with those records. Not the actions of a friend worried about what happened to another friend and eager to help anyone figure it out.

Yes, he admitted to speaking once or twice BEFORE being shown the phone bills. According to SL, the conversation only lasted "less than 5 minutes", so I guess the eventually didn't take too long to happen.

JMO

 

[Kamille]

Well, there might be a couple of things in your list that have never been confirmed by LE, and at least one that has never been mentioned by LE or in MSM, but I won't argue those points. I'm not saying that no one should analyze and pick apart DM. But if one truly wants to analyze, one should be willing to allow others to disagree with some of the points used in that analysis. An analysis is generally defined as breaking something down into elements and working backward to arrive at something known to be true. One cannot arrive at a "true" result if one only uses their own opinion in that analysis. It then only becomes "this is my opinion and you are not entitled to yours".

As for MS's involvement, all we have are people's opinions. LE basically stopped having any news conferences once he was arrested and, therefore, there has been very little released in regard to him. Does that mean his involvement is minimal or he was unaware? No, it simply means that, due to the timing, we have very little information to go by for him. Perhaps the things in MSM would have been different if he happened to be the first one arrested, or if he was the one who owned the property rather than just knowing the owner.

JMO

What are the points that are not in MSM? I might have picked up some pretzel facts by accident and I certainly would not want to perpetuate them.

As for MS, you said it yourself, if he owned the property where TB was found or was known at all to be connected to any of the evidence presented, things in MSM may have been different. Thing is, he wasn't. MSM did report on his arrest and the subsequent search of his mother's property. Apparently nothing large and obvious of interest was found or they would have reported on it. Finding TB and his truck were reported on after DM's arrest. The rest of the evidence, information from electronics, witness statements etc will have to wait for trial.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Yes, he admitted to speaking once or twice BEFORE being shown the phone bills. According to SL, the conversation only lasted "less than 5 minutes", so I guess the eventually didn't take too long to happen.

JMO

He said MAYBE, hedging his bets, after he first denied all calls. Like it was so insignificant he didn't remember. He probably conceded to the maybe when he saw the reaction on SL's face when he first denied all calls. After being shown the records he admitted that he DID speak to her, not maybe. Based on the charges it was likely very significant, he remembered each and every call and IMO he was lying and dodging.

At least he was devious enough to refuse to put any answers to SL's questions in writing. A true criminal mind there IMO.

MOO

 

[matou]

He texted to SL something like "doesn't translate well in a text". This means he HAD info to discuss with SL about Laura. Why waste SL's time if he didn't? He wasn't likely prepared to be shown the phone bill. DM was probably ready with his "story" of when he last saw Laura and had to backpeddle. JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

What are the points that are not in MSM? I might have picked up some pretzel facts by accident and I certainly would not want to perpetuate them.

As for MS, you said it yourself, if he owned the property where TB was found or was known at all to be connected to any of the evidence presented, things in MSM may have been different. Thing is, he wasn't. MSM did report on his arrest and the subsequent search of his mother's property. Apparently nothing large and obvious of interest was found or they would have reported on it. Finding TB and his truck were reported on after DM's arrest. The rest of the evidence, information from electronics, witness statements etc will have to wait for trial.

MOO

Please don't add to what I said to make it better fit your purposes. I didn't say if he was known to be connected to any of the evidence presented, I said if he owned the property. He is obviously thought to be connected to some of the evidence, whether he owned the material things or not, or he would not have been arrested. Of course LE announced his arrest and the press reported on the search because they were there by noon. But the press only reported on what they saw coming in and going out. LE continued having news conferences until just after MS was arrested. Then those conferences stopped and LE quit releasing information. They did not release what they found at his house as it's part of the investigation and will be part of the trial. That doesn't mean they didn't find anything large or of interest. In fact, the incinerator may not have been reported on either if the neighbours had not gone to the press about it.

JMO

 

[Kamille]

Please don't add to what I said to make it better fit your purposes. I didn't say if he was known to be connected to any of the evidence presented, I said if he owned the property. He is obviously thought to be connected to some of the evidence, whether he owned the material things or not, or he would not have been arrested. Of course LE announced his arrest and the press reported on the search because they were there by noon. But the press only reported on what they saw coming in and going out. LE continued having news conferences until just after MS was arrested. Then those conferences stopped and LE quit releasing information. They did not release what they found at his house as it's part of the investigation and will be part of the trial. That doesn't mean they didn't find anything large or of interest. In fact, the incinerator may not have been reported on either if the neighbours had not gone to the press about it.

JMO

I don't have a purpose in this case. Just posting on a forum I've been a member of for many years and enjoy. I was just adding to what you said about if MS owned the property. If he owned the Yukon, or if he owned the trailer, or if he owned the incinerator etc.... well that's the evidence I was talking about and I was agreeing with you that if he could be connected to anything that MSM had been able to find out,
things would be different in the way it was reported and he would appear to have much more involvement.

But nothing found or nothing said by witnesses/neighbours, to MSM, at the time of his arrest, when his identity was known, pointed to him as the leader and possible main perpetrator either.


MOO

 

[Kamille]

He texted to SL something like "doesn't translate well in a text". This means he HAD info to discuss with SL about Laura. Why waste SL's time if he didn't? He wasn't likely prepared to be shown the phone bill. DM was probably ready with his "story" of when he last saw Laura and had to backpeddle. JMO

I'd say it was more like he didn't want to flat out deny something he knew to be true in writing in case it came back to bite him. He wanted to meet with SL face to face to find out what he knew and how best to talk his way around it. And whether he needed to lie about recent contact with LB just before she went off the grid. Once it's in writing, if it can be disproven, you're screwed. This way he can try to twist SL's words around and claim he didn't deny anything.

MOO

 

[matou]

Nah, I think it's more like "it would be so boring on here if everyone agreed about everything." JMO

 

[swedie]

Nah, I think it's more like "it would be so boring on here if everyone agreed about everything." JMO

I always thought that was an awkward statement. I've followed many cases on WS and ones where everyone is in agreement about the accused being guilty and still there is so much to sleuth and discuss. Maybe this is why we can't seem to make much ground and keep going around and around and around in circles LMAO. MOO.

Agree on everything...that's not even realistic but whatever. I know where you're coming from Matou. :blowkiss:
:crazy: :slap:

JMHO.

 

[Juballee]

BBM:

DM is being labelled based on the evidence that ties directly to him, is public knowledge and has garnered him two first degree murder charges along with a co accused and one on his own. The speculation in this thread is how does MS fit into the two murders he is charged with? No one is saying MS is innocent of any wrong doing. Just trying to figure out his role. MOO

Personally, I disagree.

RSBM, BBM:

It's a possibility MS is an innocent dupe. JMO.

It is realistic to assume MS may have been set up by DM. He did it in such ways that if LE ruled these cases murders, MS would take the fall....

...DM has framed MS in such a way for LB's and TB's murders, LE believe he was involved also. Was MS under the impression DM was interested in buying a Dodge truck and he was just along for the rides?...I can certainly see MS being duped. TWT...

RSBM, BBM:

... I still think MS was a very unsophisticated, unmotivated druggie who was quite content with his stoner life and the perfect scapegoat for someone who had discovered that he could get away with murder. MOO

RSBM, BBM:

...IMHO, MS is looking more like the innocent dupe who was just dumb enough and strung out enough to be of use to DM, the master manipulator and planner. ..

RSBM, BBM:

... Maybe someone saw that video and thought: he is the perfect scapegoat if ever I need to get rid of Laura.

RSBM, BBM:

...Was MS an innocent dupe? In truck/car jacking I don't think so. Which is why he was on these excursions and not one of DM's more above board car friends. In being involved in a murder and body disposal to get the vehicle? Quite possibly. MOO

RSBM, BBM:

...Where was LB before she disappeared and how is MS involved? Was she also staying at DM's place? Is that why MS allegedly helped with that murder as well? MOO

I think that there were some examples on another thread but I am too tired to look them up, this should suffice to show that yes, some people have been saying MS may be innocent.

 

[Kamille]

BBM:


Personally, I disagree.

RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:



I think that there were some examples on another thread but I am too tired to look them up, this should suffice to show that yes, some people have been saying MS may be innocent.

MAY be an innocent dupe, emphasis on the possiblys and maybes in the posts. I stand by my original comment that no one is saying that he IS, as a fact, just that he MAY be in their opinion, and they are exploring the reasons why they are thinking that's a possibility. Just as people did in the DM innocent dupe thread. I believe it was you who suggested this thread actually so that those theories would not clutter up other threads. I think everyone is aware that at the very least, MS did not go to LE with whatever he knew about TB's disappearance and did not turn either himself or DM in as the people who showed up for the test drive. So he is guilty of some wrong doing.

I think the main reason people are questioning how involved he was with the actual murder is that ALL the facts released by LE or printed in MSM, other than the knowledge that MS was in TB's driveway and got into the backseat of the truck, lead to DM at the moment. The before planning and the after clean up all point to him. And it is my opinion, at least, that he was not framed.

MOO

 

[swedie]

BBM:


Personally, I disagree.

RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:


RSBM, BBM:



I think that there were some examples on another thread but I am too tired to look them up, this should suffice to show that yes, some people have been saying MS may be innocent.

I have no problem admitting that I've suggested MS may be an innocent dupe. Uh isn't that the title of this thread? :thinking: And it is a possibility isn't it? Maybe you have some facts that could be shared to prove otherwise? As many posters have commented in the past, there are those who have in the past been wrongly accused and/or convicted. MS just might be one of those. I just want to see justice for TB, LB and WM and their victims. Keeping my mind open and have yet to read any logical theories which could exonerate DM yet though. MOO.


This bit falling at random.
Someone mentioned that once MS was arrested MSM stopped publishing information. Let's understand the fact that PB came into effect on May 15, 2013, five days after DM's arrest and a week before MS's arrest. I believe the PB was to cover all information presented in court from that day forward. HTH.

Millard, who was unshackled in court, was ordered held in custody for his next court appearance, and a publication ban was ordered on evidence presented at Wednesday’s hearing.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...formally_charged_with_firstdegree_murder.html

 

[redheart]

I always thought that was an awkward statement. I've followed many cases on WS and ones where everyone is in agreement about the accused being guilty and still there is so much to sleuth and discuss. Maybe this is why we can't seem to make much ground and keep going around and around and around in circles LMAO. MOO.

Agree on everything...that's not even realistic but whatever. I know where you're coming from Matou. :blowkiss:
:crazy: :slap:

JMHO.

I think I fall somewhere in the middle. Everyone agreeing can be boring, particularly if there's not much to discuss or sleuth like you mentioned, Swedie. On the other hand, when every single piece of evidence that we know of, and every single piece of evidence that is presented as even a possibility gets explained away in an absurd manner, that also gets boring. If the perfect storm of circumstances has to occur to explain away every single piece of evidence it's just getting nonsensical. IMO

 

[MsSherlock]

Did the brother-in-law of the victim know the suspect well enough to know that he may have been addicted to adrenaline or is he just guessing from his own experience as a pilot, that all pilots must be adrenaline junkies, I wonder?

I'm a bit behind in reading these posts, but had to respond to this one. I am a pilot and yes- I'm an adrenaline junkie as are most pilots- just as TB's BIL states. The reason is simple. When you train to fly, you usually spend 90% of your time handling emergencies: engine failures, stalls, spins, spirals, collision avoidance. Definitely not for the weak of heart and the weak of heart don't usually become pilots. After all, who climbs a plane to 6000 ft, cuts the engine, tips a wing and spirals/spins down 2000 feet just because they can? MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'm a bit behind in reading these posts, but had to respond to this one. I am a pilot and yes- I'm an adrenaline junkie as are most pilots- just as TB's BIL states. The reason is simple. When you train to fly, you usually spend 90% of your time handling emergencies: engine failures, stalls, spins, spirals, collision avoidance. Definitely not for the weak of heart and the weak of heart don't usually become pilots. After all, who climbs a plane to 6000 ft, cuts the engine, tips a wing and spirals/spins down 2000 feet just because they can? MOO

Isn't that a weird thing to teach your under-14-year-old kid? (Sort of like being born into the Wallenda family...)

 

[Alethea Dice]

I'm a bit behind in reading these posts, but had to respond to this one. I am a pilot and yes- I'm an adrenaline junkie as are most pilots- just as TB's BIL states. The reason is simple. When you train to fly, you usually spend 90% of your time handling emergencies: engine failures, stalls, spins, spirals, collision avoidance. Definitely not for the weak of heart and the weak of heart don't usually become pilots. After all, who climbs a plane to 6000 ft, cuts the engine, tips a wing and spirals/spins down 2000 feet just because they can? MOO

I thought it was the general consensus that DM wasn't a pilot.


JMO

 

[MsSherlock]

I thought it was the general consensus that DM wasn't a pilot.


JMO

??? Alethea, I'm not linking anything because IMHO, it's a documented fact that DM did both his fixed wing and rotary wing student licenses when he was only 14. I'm not sure about the emergency training in a helicopter- but perhaps our helicopter expert Arni can. You don't get to skip various training exercises because of your age. IMHO DM may not have kept his private pilots license current like he did his helicopter(rotary) license- but he still had a "pilots" license. Maybe Arni will tell us what excitement is included in whirly bird emergency training- but IMHO, I seriously doubt that it doesn't include a healthy dose of adrenaline! MOO

 

[Juballee]

I thought it was the general consensus that DM wasn't a pilot.


JMO

I seem to recall a discussion about that here too, some people were saying that he isn't a pilot, and others agreed, but I don't know if they formed a consensus or not

 

[MsSherlock]

Isn't that a weird thing to teach your under-14-year-old kid? (Sort of like being born into the Wallenda family...)

Snooper, IMHO, there are two factors here. Firstly, DM was emersed in aviation. IMO, instead of going to the playground when he was a kid, he was hanging out in an old hangar at Pearson with his Gramps and friends. Secondly, DM was an only child and only grandchild of 2 aviators- nothing would make them happier than to have one of their own break a record in aviation. IMHO, the childhood of DM was less than optimum for social development with his peers. Perhaps offering "the good life" to people, the things that only money could buy, was the way he finally learned to make friends.
But over in MS's life, he was the son of a middle class, run of the mill family. IMHO, MS is an open book. Typical non motivated type in school (do we know where he went and if he even graduated?), no expectations of college or university, some questionable friends, a pile of gal pals that just wanted to hang with him, a few "risky activities" and the best highs that his money could buy...however much money he had at the time. MOO