Mass Casualties -Train Crashes Into NJ Transit's Hoboken Station

[CARIIS]

I just "feel" al this is is brake failure.

But that results in a host of othjer questions!

we will see huh??

 

[CARIIS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOVq8StnKK0

i hope he is good - have never seen lead dude, the vice chair I have seen and like !

But noone was as good as last chair she was amazing!

New chair - dashing, articulate, wise , calm orgainzed!

moo

Just good lord people. Trying to see latest presser . title of the video is about crash but the little aviatar thing is two people have intercourse, I thought oh come on now jjeezzz

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Conductor operating the train that crashed in Hoboken was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol, blood tests reveal

Thomas Gallagher, 48, underwent a blood test, which came back negative

He was controlling the train when it barreled through station and crashed into a barrier around 8.45am, killing one and injuring 114 others

Gallagher has not yet been interviewed, but is cooperating with authorities

Official said sabotage or foul play were ruled out as investigation proceeds

One of two black boxes were recovered, but damage to the station has barred investigators from reaching most of the train cars


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...alcohol-blood-tests-reveal.html#ixzz4LpqtAwLV

 

[CARIIS]

New Jersey Transit was under an audit by the Federal Railroad Administration, in part because of concerns about safety violations, months before a fatal crash in Hoboken last week

The FRA began taking a closer look at NJ Transit early this year for two reasons -- "a leadership vacuum" and because the FRA "started to see more violations of safety rules," the source said.

A "deep audit" of the NJT that was begun in the spring and completed in June, looking mostly at operations, found "dozens of safety violations," mostly in the operations area, ia monetary penalty was issued.

Prior to the Hoboken incident, the FRA was "preparing next steps" and "considering more enforcement actions," but FRA had not acted on it, the source said.

New Jersey Transit has paid more than $500,000 to settle federal safety violations since 2011.

The data from the Federal Railroad Administration shows the violations ranged from employee drug and alcohol use to violations of railroad operating rules or practices.

The settlement payments include about $70,000 in fines New Jersey Transit received after federal inspectors found more than a dozen violations in 2014 and 2015.

"dozens of violations" to New Jersey Transit during an audit in June

A follow-up phase of the audit, focusing on ensuring the railroad's compliance with safety guidelines, was ongoing when a commuter train slammed into Hoboken Terminal

http://www.usnews.com/news/us/artic...j-transit-has-paid-500k-for-safety-violations


[h=2]Agency found dozens of violations a[/h]
[FONT=&quot]safety-related incidents and potential violations in rail yards, one official said.
[FONT=&quot]Federal authorities are drafting a formal conclusion, which could include a compliance agreement and possibly a requirement for future federal monitoring.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The audit is a typical move when federal authorities detect a surge in potential violations, .....The agency has conducted similar audits at the commuter railroad systems in Philadelphia and Chicago in recent years, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]trains overrunning switches and red signals and lapses in safety protocols

[FONT=&quot]the audit wasn’t likely to give NJ Transit a “clean” bill of health b

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]concerned about its ability to hire and retain enough employees amid its own financial struggles, people familiar with the matter said.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ds itself mired in financial difficulties and uncertainty over its long-term leadership.

[/FONT]http://www.wsj.com/articles/nj-transit-was-under-federal-scrutiny-earlier-this-year-1475360280

[/FONT]
[/FONT]

http://abc11.com/news/nj-transit-was-under-federal-audit-before-train-crash/1535362/

 

[Jax49]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-jersey-traincrash-idUSKCN1213IS

Investigators on Saturday interviewed the engineer of a New Jersey commuter train that smashed into a Hoboken station this week, killing one person and injuring 108, the National Transportation Safety Board said in a statement.
The NTSB said it would not immediately release anything investigators heard from the 29-year veteran of the railway, who was also injured in the Thursday morning crash that left a 34-year-old woman on the platform dead and toppled support columns in the 1907 building, a major transit point for New York City-bound commuters.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Crews couldn't gain access to the front cab of the doomed train — where an event recorder and an outward-facing camera are trapped — because the station the train crashed into in Hoboken suffered too much structural damage and the asbestos levels are too high.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hoboken-crash-feds-can-t-reach-black-box-camera-because-n657941

"Extensive debris removal must be completed before investigators can access the train and then have the train removed," the National Transportation Safety Board added said Saturday afternoon.

 

[Lauranyc83]

"NTSB: EVENT RECORDER ON NJ TRANSIT TRAIN 'NOT FUNCTIONING'"

http://abc7ny.com/news/ntsb-event-recorder-on-nj-transit-train-not-functioning-/1535996/

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Inthedetails]

"NTSB: EVENT RECORDER ON NJ TRANSIT TRAIN 'NOT FUNCTIONING'"

http://abc7ny.com/news/ntsb-event-recorder-on-nj-transit-train-not-functioning-/1535996/

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

What?! From the article, there is a second box, but rescue workers haven't been able to retrieve it yet. I hope the second one has some info to explain the accident.

There is also this:

"The signals on the tracks leading to Hoboken Terminal appear to be working normally and officials completed a walking inspection of the track, finding nothing that would have affected the performance of the train, the NTSB said in an update Saturday. Investigators have obtained video from other trains that were inside the train station when the crash occurred.

Gallagher also told investigators that he was six minutes late arriving to the Hoboken station, and said he has 'no memory' of the accident."

 

[CARIIS]

What?! From the article, there is a second box, but rescue workers haven't been able to retrieve it yet. I hope the second one has some info to explain the accident.

There is also this:

"The signals on the tracks leading to Hoboken Terminal appear to be working normally and officials completed a walking inspection of the track, finding nothing that would have affected the performance of the train, the NTSB said in an update Saturday. Investigators have obtained video from other trains that were inside the train station when the crash occurred.

Gallagher also told investigators that he was six minutes late arriving to the Hoboken station, and said he has 'no memory' of the accident."

Hummm with this information, I am pondering if it was a derailment? I mean I wonder if while pulling into the station it derailed , as oppossed to focusing on break failure or human error.



They had a top managment change a while back, one guy accepted the postion, then backed out of running the joint!

So they have like a temp in their now ................everything in any organization starts at the top!!

 

[CARIIS]

OK! Guys come on is THIS the way to do a presser. They are so good. Look at how much they have done already! They tell "what" they find in first phase, dont do all this dancing like most others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0fmpme8SQU&feature=youtu.be&a

humm a weekend does not stop them!!

Axle failure?? Dont know why but I beleive the enginner - so if accurate, overspeed is not a factor, and in thinking about it, all early reports, from those aboard, never reported speeding, but that there was no braking --- different enties.

Not sure of specs but it seems the bumper would have absorbed more energy if only going 10 mph. Which then makes me wonder if it derailed while in the terminal , So if we go for derailment as oppossed to braking we would have a train that does not hit the bumper head on, so maybe that is why energy absorbtion was less than one would expect. It would have hit the bumper at an angle that would change energy forces.

Apparently it was really packed (heavy) , which also impacts energy in terms of forward motion??

Track failure? Trying out other accident sequences if speed is actually not involved, derailment would def impact braking cause all wheels would not be on track?


If visualized, in the platform area, a derailment might not be noticed through the accident sequence, casue it would have been held somewhat "in place" by plaltform?

There were reports of screeching (one guy described nails on a chockboard ) implies a "sequence" of noise prior to bang crash. The nails on a chockboard struck me that day. I feel like I am not saying this right!

Screeching (and is an event of "duration") as opposed to just the sudden boom at impact.

derailing does sound like screeching , tell me this does not sound like nails on a chalkboard ! ahhhhh

[video=youtube;7PzZGz7yL8A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PzZGz7yL8A[/video]

Locals - at that station, would a train of four cars "fill " up the whole loading platform? Or maybe better asked, how long a train could fit under the entire canapy part of the platform. Wondering how long (time) would the train have been in the enclosed part?

I am thinking if all 4 cars were surrounded on both side by the platforms, on both side, the derailment would not be overtly visual - they would not fall over - cause they are in like a "rut" -like getting stuck in the sand in a car?

 

[CARIIS]

My experience was just a fire suppression system. I don't get why they'd use a pedal that someone could collapse onto...

ETA: Lost my thanks button also. Weirdness.

Totally off topic , I tend to be a curious person!! Why do people do "ETA". I learned what it meant , why is done?

Man if it were a "rule " my posts would look like :

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ETA to the edit of the edit as it relates to the edit of the edited edit which was related to the edit!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jax49]

Totally off topic , I tend to be a curious person!! Why do people do "ETA". I learned what it meant , why is done?

Man if it were a "rule " my posts would look like :

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ETAxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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ETA to the edit of the edit as it relates to the edit of the edited edit which was related to the edit!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

O/T

An attempt to avoid confusion; at least, that's why I do it.

 

[Lauranyc83]

They were able to remove the 2nd recorder today.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[FindHG]

Official: Investigators estimate train in New Jersey crash was speeding
By Michael Balsamo, Associated Press via Philly.com
Oct 4 16


[...]

"The official, who was briefed on the investigation, said investigators estimated the train was moving between 20 and 30 mph when it crashed into Hoboken Terminal last Thursday. The official was not authorized to speak about an ongoing investigation and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity.

The speed estimate is based on the extent of damage, not on data from the train's instruments."

[...]


Official: NJ Transit train in Hoboken crash was speeding
by Christopher Maag, Courier-Post
Oct 5 16 12:40 am edt

"The NJ Transit train that slammed into Hoboken Terminal last week may have been traveling two to three times faster than the posted speed limit, according to early estimates by crash investigators.

That estimate contradicts an earlier statement by the train’s engineer, who told investigators he was traveling at precisely the speed limit — 10 mph — when he entered the station."

[...]

 

[OldSteve]

Got to hope 2nd recorder is working! Surprise by the sorry condition NJ Transit is in - fewer cars on trains while ridership is up from last year and people packed into what cars there are. Did I miss mention of a conductor or brakeman being interviewed?

 

[FindHG]

Out there thinking questions, if the engineer is correct, that the speed he saw coming into the station was 10 mph, and/or he thought nothing unusual, then bounced the train up into the wall, as he blanked out:

Could anyone guess at what kind of control panel display this train may have had? Could it have been vulnerable to a proximity hacks? Do hacks like that show?

Or, it could be something that failed in train's mechanics that caused this, that won't be known until the train is examined offsite, at some point, that I couldn't begin to guess at.

 

[FindHG]

Got to hope 2nd recorder is working! Surprise by the sorry condition NJ Transit is in - fewer cars on trains while ridership is up from last year and people packed into what cars there are. Did I miss mention of a conductor or brakeman being interviewed?

Initially, in MSM, the crew was noted to have been cooperating with authorities as well as the NTSB, IIRC. The NTSB, made the lone exception of having access to the engineer, due to injury, prior to their formal interview, as well as noting their preferences for PTC being instituted more rapidly, in their first remarks about the train wreck before they were even on site. I'm not at all that familiar with how the NTSB works. The pictures/images of the thingy being removed seemed upfront and telling to me, if not a bit Supreme Soviet in style, Old Steve.

The NJ/NY Metro area is packed with commuters, always, braving it around calamities to get around.

 

[OldSteve]

What I find strange is when I watched the local news right after it happened, a number of passengers interviewed who rode this train every day said they knew something was wrong because the train would normally come to stop outside the station, and then proceed in at slow speed - but this time the train never slowed, never stopped - just when right in without slowing down. In what I've read so far, the engineer has not mentioned that he stopped and then proceeded....

 

[Lauranyc83]

What I find strange is when I watched the local news right after it happened, a number of passengers interviewed who rode this train every day said they knew something was wrong because the train would normally come to stop outside the station, and then proceed in at slow speed - but this time the train never slowed, never stopped - just when right in without slowing down. In what I've read so far, the engineer has not mentioned that he stopped and then proceeded....

I noticed that too. I also read that a few passangers who rode in the first car for years on that same train everyday noticed the door open to the engineers cab, and the door always closed. Why did he have the door opened that day?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[FindHG]

After crash, NJ Transit says two crew members must be in front car of trains pulling into Hoboken
BY Christopher Maag, staff wrtier, The Record
Wed Oct 5 16, 8:45 pm

N.J. Transit Changes Rules for Trains Arriving at Hoboken Station
By Patrick McGeehan and Emma G. Fitzsimmons, The New York Times
Oct 5 16

NJ Transit adding trains to reduce overcrowding after Hoboken train crash
By The Associated Press via News 12 NJ
Oct 5 16, 6:04 pm


NJ Transit issues rule change for crew when entering Hoboken
Ranji Sinha reports for News 12 NJ from the station, tonight
Oct 5, 16, posted 10:33 pm

with a comprehensive update on various aspects, including the new rules, investigations progress, funds meant to help the one victim, a victim's Op Ed, ...


Hoboken train crash sparks safety debate ahead of transportation vote
JACK TOMCZUK Staff Writer, Press of Atlantic City'
10 hrs ago

How Congress and Lobbyists Helped Delay Passenger Train Safety Measures
By ALI ROGIN, ABCNEWS
Oct 5 16, 3:34 pm et