Matt Lauer fired by NBC, accused of "inappropriate sexual behavior"

[Inthedetails]

"Inside Matt Lauer’s Secret Relationship With a ‘Today’ Production Assistant "

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/mat...relationship-production-assistant-1202641040/

 

[grammieto5]

I'm not seeing a victim here. I see a consensual "encounter".

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm not seeing a victim here. I see a consensual "encounter".

I'm assuming you're referring to the Army vet's story? Yes, she mentions upfront and several times that it was consensual. She is clear about it.

Did you read the whole article? The article ends with (bbm):

"This is not an easy thing to talk about. Over the years, I could have spoken. I could have gotten money from the National Enquirer. I never did that. I’m not trying to get anything out of this situation, other than be another voice in this important conversation about women in the workplace. The things that Matt did to me, there are men doing to other women. Although it wasn’t a crime in my case, it’s still not right. Matt took advantage of his power. It’s sickening. It breaks my heart that he did this for so long.

I’m putting my name and face out there to squash any doubts about the allegations from other women against Matt Lauer. I’m validating their stories because some of our experiences are similar. I want these women to know that I believe them, I want to help empower them and collectively we have a voice to change things. I have a 7-year-old daughter. I want to do everything I can to assure this doesn’t happen to her."



Yes, her story is about a consensual encounter AND it is about joining with the movement. She is using her voice to support others, to be part of making changes.

jmo

 

[grammieto5]

I'm assuming you're referring to the Army vet's story? Yes, she mentions upfront and several times that it was consensual. She is clear about it.

Did you read the whole article? The article ends with (bbm):

"This is not an easy thing to talk about. Over the years, I could have spoken. I could have gotten money from the National Enquirer. I never did that. I’m not trying to get anything out of this situation, other than be another voice in this important conversation about women in the workplace. The things that Matt did to me, there are men doing to other women. Although it wasn’t a crime in my case, it’s still not right. Matt took advantage of his power. It’s sickening. It breaks my heart that he did this for so long.

I’m putting my name and face out there to squash any doubts about the allegations from other women against Matt Lauer. I’m validating their stories because some of our experiences are similar. I want these women to know that I believe them, I want to help empower them and collectively we have a voice to change things. I have a 7-year-old daughter. I want to do everything I can to assure this doesn’t happen to her."



Yes, her story is about a consensual encounter AND it is about joining with the movement. She is using her voice to support others, to be part of making changes.

jmo

Of course I read the complete article, I could not have commented on it if I had not read the entire article. My comment is referring to her stating she is a victim. She also states what she had with Matt Lauer was consensual. A true victim does not have a “consensual encounter”. Of course she wants to be part of making changes, I did not
comment on her wanting to help others, I stated she is not a victim, that's all.

 

[Inthedetails]

Of course I read the complete article, I could not have commented on it if I had not read the entire article. My comment is referring to her stating she is a victim. She also states what she had with Matt Lauer was consensual. A true victim does not have a “consensual encounter”. Of course she wants to be part of making changes, I did not
comment on her wanting to help others, I stated she is not a victim, that's all.

Correct. She is not a victim and doesn't portray herself as one. The only time in the article she uses the "v" word is as an example of how she felt, not stating that she was one. She does consider herself as prey for a powerful man, however (and who, yes, consented to the encounters). She wrote:

"Even though my situation with Matt was consensual, I ultimately felt like a victim because of the power dynamic. He knew that I was leaving, and that there was no better prey than somebody who is going to be gone. He went after the most vulnerable and the least powerful — and those were the production assistants and the interns. He understood that we were going to be so flattered and so enthralled by the idea that the most powerful man at NBC News is taking any interest in us. He felt like he was untouchable. He lacked so much morality and reality, because he had people enabling him. I see the common threads and how he preyed on women, and I was one of them."


I don't want to nitpick words or project meaning into anyone's posts, but it's so easy to dismiss and undermine by saying, "not a victim." The point, in my opinion, is face the situations we have in many workplaces and to start to change the environment.

Again, I'm not suggesting anything about your opinion personally - just making my own comments about the word "victim" in this particular woman's story. Her message is one of support for others.

jmyopinion

 

[Trvl4Lyfe]

If all she's trying to do is protect her daughter why the need to go public...IMO

 

[Inthedetails]

If all she's trying to do is protect her daughter why the need to go public...IMO

That's not all she is trying to do.

jmyopinion

 

[Jade]

If all she's trying to do is protect her daughter why the need to go public...IMO

Not protecting her daughter as in shielding her.

It’s more changing the workplace dynamics so there are built in protections and no one is covering for the Matt Lauer's.

As posted above in Ms Zinone’s own words:

..I want to help empower them and collectively we have a voice to change things. I have a 7-year-old daughter. I want to do everything I can to assure this doesn’t happen to her.

Think about if ML was still at Today and your pretty daughter was headed this spring to New York a wide eyed intern fresh out of college now in the heady world of television in the most exciting city in the world maybe the first time living on her own…. I’m glad the ladies spoke up and he is gone the gross jerk.

 

[grammieto5]

Hopefully Zinone will also teach her daughter she does not need to get advice by having a consensual encounter in a dressing room or bathroom.

 

[grammieto5]

Correct. She is not a victim and doesn't portray herself as one. The only time in the article she uses the "v" word is as an example of how she felt, not stating that she was one. She does consider herself as prey for a powerful man, however (and who, yes, consented to the encounters). She wrote:

"Even though my situation with Matt was consensual, I ultimately felt like a victim because of the power dynamic. He knew that I was leaving, and that there was no better prey than somebody who is going to be gone. He went after the most vulnerable and the least powerful — and those were the production assistants and the interns. He understood that we were going to be so flattered and so enthralled by the idea that the most powerful man at NBC News is taking any interest in us. He felt like he was untouchable. He lacked so much morality and reality, because he had people enabling him. I see the common threads and how he preyed on women, and I was one of them."


I don't want to nitpick words or project meaning into anyone's posts, but it's so easy to dismiss and undermine by saying, "not a victim." The point, in my opinion, is face the situations we have in many workplaces and to start to change the environment.

Again, I'm not suggesting anything about your opinion personally - just making my own comments about the word "victim" in this particular woman's story. Her message is one of support for others.

jmyopinion

No worries, your post was not taken personally. I do wonder though, how he prayed on her when she went willingly at least 4 times with him. She knew he was married, she knew she was just another conquest to him.

 

[Madeleine74]

I read the Army vet's story. At 24 she was an adult, who did and made choices, willingly. That she 'felt' like a victim really came after their several encounters, when Lauer 'ghosted her' (her words) after the National Enquirer came to her home a year or 2 later. And she reached out to Lauer upon that happening, which he handled by asking, "WHO did you tell?" and then ghosting her.

Important points in this story: her career wasn't in jeopardy, she was already in her last days at NBC, having accepted an anchor job in her home state. Her future employment didn't count on Lauer. She approached Lauer after he flirted with her, asked him for career advice. They went to lunch, which was her choice. He, being married and a lech, came on to her and she responded willingly. (BTW, she never said if she got any career advice from him.)

I don't count this as "sexual harassment" the way I do the other women who have come forward. It's a tawdry tale of a young career woman choosing to have sex with someone more senior, famous, who flirted with her and let her know he was attracted to her. Highly tacky, but pretty typical. He didn't attack her, he didn't threaten her, and the things that were inappropriate were:

1. Lauer cheating on his wife (which is not against company policy or illegal)
2. Engaging in a personal / intimate relationship with someone at work (likely against company policy, but not illegal).

 

[Jade]

The shaming posts are demeaning a two time combat veteran, who still regrets, is ashamed and embarrassed by consensual encounters where she says she was in way over her head and she reveals the extent of the protection ML was given by his employer.

She is not looking for pity; she has a successful and happy life.

It’s a change provoking cautionary tale.

 

[Inthedetails]

I read the Army vet's story. At 24 she was an adult, who did and made choices, willingly. That she 'felt' like a victim really came after their several encounters, when Lauer 'ghosted her' (her words) after the National Enquirer came to her home a year or 2 later. And she reached out to Lauer upon that happening, which he handled by asking, "WHO did you tell?" and then ghosting her.

Important points in this story: her career wasn't in jeopardy, she was already in her last days at NBC, having accepted an anchor job in her home state. Her future employment didn't count on Lauer. She approached Lauer after he flirted with her, asked him for career advice. They went to lunch, which was her choice. He, being married and a lech, came on to her and she responded willingly. (BTW, she never said if she got any career advice from him.)

I don't count this as "sexual harassment" the way I do the other women who have come forward. It's a tawdry tale of a young career woman choosing to have sex with someone more senior, famous, who flirted with her and let her know he was attracted to her. Highly tacky, but pretty typical. He didn't attack her, he didn't threaten her, and the things that were inappropriate were:

1. Lauer cheating on his wife (which is not against company policy or illegal)
2. Engaging in a personal / intimate relationship with someone at work (likely against company policy, but not illegal).

I worked for a corporation that had a no-dating-other-employees policy. At the time I thought it was too strict, but now I think it's a good idea. It makes for a clear boundary for everyone - easy to say "no" because both partner's job would be in jeopardy if any sexual encounters were discovered.

jmo

 

[grammieto5]

Although the shaming comment does not apply to me I will respond to the post. I thank this Veteran for her service as I do all of our Veterans and our troops. Her being a Veteran has nothing to do with issue.

 

[MaryG12]

"Inside Matt Lauer’s Secret Relationship With a ‘Today’ Production Assistant "

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/mat...relationship-production-assistant-1202641040/

I read the article - quite eye-opening - what I don't get is why his Production Assistant went along with it considering it was before she left. Sometimes right before leaving a job, such a relationship can have a much bigger impact upon one, because it is so recent. My two cents is this: if a woman - or a man, for that matter - is seeking for professional career advice, don't do it somewhere alone in a dressing room or even an office. Always ask someone else to be present at the time.

I suspect, a lot of the sexual harassment and consensual cases are "He said/She said" which can easily be misconstrued later on at some point.

 

[Madeleine74]

I worked for a corporation that had a no-dating-other-employees policy. At the time I thought it was too strict, but now I think it's a good idea. It makes for a clear boundary for everyone - easy to say "no" because both partner's job would be in jeopardy if any sexual encounters were discovered.

It's a good idea to separate work from personal life and romantic entanglements. Although that is where many people meet a future significant other.

I don't know why it doesn't occur to young women to just say no or not engage in the same behavior when someone, even someone very important, is coming on to them. It's okay to be pleasant and have a boundary.

When I was 26 I was at a company dinner during a tradeshow event out of town and one of the men who worked in the local office, who was sitting next to me at dinner, kept 'bumping' into my leg with his. But not a bump, it was a rub to indicate his attraction and interest. I wasn't interested in a hookup at all, wasn't interested in him, and I lived with my boyfriend at the time so I wouldn't have cheated.

I moved my leg away from his the first time. He did it again a few minutes later and then I physically moved my chair away from him a few inches as I said out loud, "Oh sorry we keep bumping into each other...here, I'll give you some space." He took that very strong hint and that was the end of that! He was higher up in the company than me, but not in my chain of command and not in senior management. Wouldn't have mattered if he was, I would have done the same thing regardless. Months later I had to do a visit back to that office and go on a couple sales calls with him and he behaved himself as he already knew I was neither interested nor willing to engage.

Lauer could not fire the entire female Today show staff, he didn't have that kind of power. I'm not -shaming anyone, btw. I acknowledge when someone is making a choice (which is totally their right to do so) vs when they have been forced or outright attacked. Some of the hookups were with willing females and some were coerced or outright sexual battery.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

(And Lauer has admitted as much, iirc):

Matt Lauer’s ‘Power Differential’ Meant Workplace Affairs Could Not Be Consensual, Expert Says

https://www.google.com/amp/people.com/tv/hr-expert-explains-matt-lauer-consent/amp/

From the link:

Although a source told PEOPLE that Matt Lauer believed that his affair with the Today show colleague who reported him to NBC was “consensual,” he “should absolutely have refrained” from engaging in an intimate relationship with a co-worker, according to a human resources expert.

“The power differential between him and literally every other Today show employee is huge. Any relationship he has with an NBC employee will be heavily influenced — a better term might be ‘tainted’ — by that differential,” The Purposeful Culture Group’s Chris Edmonds exclusively tells PEOPLE. “The only person who benefits from a workplace affair like this is the person in power.”

 

[Jade]

Hopefully Zinone will also teach her daughter she does not need to get advice by having a consensual encounter in a dressing room or bathroom.

Although the shaming comment does not apply to me I will respond to the post. I thank this Veteran for her service as I do all of our Veterans and our troops. Her being a Veteran has nothing to do with issue.

Perhaps you are not familiar with the meaning of shaming?

Being a two time combat veteran goes to character.

I am accustomed to being especially respectful of our veterans as they have given much and were willing to give their all for their country.

I put a high value on such an individual’s story.

Just thanking her for her service is not enough for me I back her wholeheartedly.


just imo

 

[Tawny]

Some people need to learn the meaning of "power dynamic."

 

[grammieto5]

Perhaps you are not familiar with the meaning of shaming?

Being a two time combat veteran goes to character.

I am accustomed to being especially respectful of our veterans as they have given much and were willing to give their all for their country.

I put a high value on such an individual’s story.

Just thanking her for her service is not enough for me I back her wholeheartedly.


just imo

I was not calling her a , but evidently the meaning of shaming also includes criticizing women for their sexual conduct, among other things. I was not critising her for having consensual sex in a dressing room three times and once in a bathroom because she needed advice from a married man. I said she was not a victim. The true victim in that scenario was ML wife. She being married for only two years I’m sure she had no idea what he was doing. Zinone got involved with a married man as many many women have done and will continue to do, the problem is he didn’t treat her the way she thought he would so of course she felt awful. I think her wanting to use her story to help others is great. I stand by what I wrote, she is not a victim, and her being a Veteran has nothing to do with this issue.