Max's Death - Dina's Independent Experts Summary Reports

[time]

Can anyone tell me what RZ's relationship to XZ has to to with the topic of this thread?

 

[katydid23]

Can anyone tell me what RZ's relationship to XZ has to to with the topic of this thread?

<modsnip>

I was going back to the facts as we know it. There were only TWO people with Maxie when he died. And it is important to understand the relationship between the three of them, imo.

 

[justice be served]

There are lots of other things, besides just his statement, that point to that being the truth.

Could you share with this forum the "lots of other things" perhaps?

 

[katydid23]

Could you share with this forum the "lots of other things" perhaps?

No, I guess I can't. <modsnip>.

 

[time]

But why would she call a child her 'daughter' if it was really her little sister?

And all of the daughters are around RZ's age, and then one lone child is 13 yrs old and lives alone with the grandparents.

The only reason to discuss it is because it is very vital to the circumstances of the day and of the accident, imo.

I don't want to derail this thread as I am not sure whether XZ is RZ's daughter or sister has anything to do with anything, let alone this thread. It would be a loving act had someone's parents taken on the responsibility, calling a child their own, if a teenage daughter of theirs got pregnant. I got pregnant at 16 and if I had decided it was best for my parents to raise my son as their son, I don't think it would be anyone elses business nor reflect on my character.

Furthermore, my two brothers are 16+ years apart in age. My baby brother came late in my parents life, but that is not unusual. I have at least two aunts who had children at around 40 years old. My one aunt has a son who is only 1 year younger than my son although she is only a couple of years younger than my mother, her sister.

The only relevance I can see to this whole discussion is that Dina thinks XZ is a daughter instead of a sister and has made that into something nefarious when it would, in fact, be a private matter. Perhaps this also has something to do with her vague claims about RZ being more dangerous (or whatever she is claiming) in the presence of a family member(s)....although I can't for the life of me understand that argument. If anyone knows, I know I would love to hear it. Further, to be relevant to this thread, is the claim that this somehow effected Melinek's report, e.g., that Rebecca knew jiujitsu and was hiding that her sister was actually her daughter along with hiding behind her maiden name and that therefor all constitutes a person who would assault a child?

 

[justice be served]

From Article "Skeletons in the Coroner's Office
A botched 9-year-old murder case continues to haunt the much-maligned Santa Clara medical examiner's office by William Dean Hinton."

'Contrary to the way Hollywood portrays forensic science, coroners rely more on families to provide information about a death than the body left behind. "We pride ourselves on openness with families," says Judy Melinek, one of three assistant Santa Clara County medical examiners Schmunk hired last summer. "My communication is not with the dead body; it's with the family."'

BBM. Could it be that Dr. Melinek's approach to forensic science fit with Dina's desires? I almost choked when I read it. Sounds like Dr. Melinek was a good match to handle Max's forensic report.

This is the link to the above article. http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/06.16.04/coroners-0425.html

 

[time]

From Article "Skeletons in the Coroner's Office
A botched 9-year-old murder case continues to haunt the much-maligned Santa Clara medical examiner's office by William Dean Hinton."

'Contrary to the way Hollywood portrays forensic science, coroners rely more on families to provide information about a death than the body left behind. "We pride ourselves on openness with families," says Judy Melinek, one of three assistant Santa Clara County medical examiners Schmunk hired last summer. "My communication is not with the dead body; it's with the family."'

BBM. Could it be that Dr. Melinek's approach to forensic science fit with Dina's desires? I almost choked when I read it. Sounds like Dr. Melinek was a good match to handle Max's forensic report.

This is the link to the above article. http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/06.16.04/coroners-0425.html

Melinek also specifically works with an organization for parents of children who have been murdered.

 

[justice be served]

Dr. Melinek reports on the importance of the medical examiner office being independent in their work. This is well said. Her examples of how it should NOT be done reminds me of SDSO and both Max and Rebecca's ME reports. In fact, wasn't Max's graphic of the stair done by the attorney's office?

May 24, 2012
Forensic Pathology Forum
Dr. Judy Melinek

"I am glad to see the courts affirm that forensic science is objective and neutral and that its practitioners should be protected from influence and intimidation. Unfortunately, one overturned conviction in Minnesota is not going to correct a national structural crisis. In most cases, forensic scientists are not independent, but work for Sheriff Coroners: the same government entities that supervise law enforcement. Many forensic crime labs are under the auspices of police or prosecutors, and their employees are discouraged from sharing their expertise with defense counsel since they are considered "prosecution witnesses" and their reports are "testimonial," i.e. created to further prosecution."

http://pathologyexpert.blogspot.com/

She goes on to speak of the importance of board certification as well which has been emphasized in Dr. Melinek's role.

 

[bourne]

Melinek also specifically works with an organization for parents of children who have been murdered.

Her dedication to the parents of murdered children is laudable, but it may be a reason why her expert report on Max was biased against Rebecca and her teen sis XZ who are not biological parents of Max.

 

[Quester]

http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1874

Re the photo above, from the Dr. Phil program aired 9/21: when was the photo taken?

- Right after MS&#8217; fall just after first responders left with MS?
- On the Friday of that week when investigators returned to the scene to investigate?
- Or, when DS&#8217; team entered the mansion at a later date for a possible recreation of the scene for their analysis?
- Or, ???
​

In any case, does the photo depict the correct placement of the chandelier, scooter and possible cut black t-shirt as they were immediately after MS&#8217; fall?

There was also another photo at an angle that better depicted the position of the chandelier and how far off it was from a direct downward fall had there been no swinging action.

Had anything been reported moved after MS' fell, for whatever reason, so what we see in the photo is not true to right after his fall?

I'm having difficulty reconciling this photo with what we've read in other reports.

Also, that's a lot of plastic/misc debris - is all of that attributable to the first responders?

TIA

 

[bourne]

http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1874

Re the photo above, from the Dr. Phil program aired 9/21: when was the photo taken?

- Right after MS’ fall just after first responders left with MS?
- On the Friday of that week when investigators returned to the scene to investigate?
- Or, when DS’ team entered the mansion at a later date for a possible recreation of the scene for their analysis?
- Or, ???
​

In any case, does the photo depict the correct placement of the chandelier, scooter and possible cut black t-shirt as they were immediately after MS’ fall?

There was also another photo at an angle that better depicted the position of the chandelier and how far off it was from a direct downward fall had there been no swinging action.

Had anything been reported moved after MS' fell, for whatever reason, so what we see in the photo is not true to right after his fall?

I'm having difficulty reconciling this photo with what we've read in other reports.

Also, that's a lot of plastic/misc debris - is all of that attributable to the first responders?

TIA

Good points!

I had asked about the time the photo was taken in a prior post but no one appears to know.

I also would like to know what all the debris were and where they came from.

 

[katydid23]

Good points!

I had asked about the time the photo was taken in a prior post but no one appears to know.

I also would like to know what all the debris were and where they came from.

Some of that debris looks like wrappers from EMT supplies. My son is an EMT and everything in his bag is individually wrapped. You grab something, open it, and toss the wrapper aside when you are in a hurry. JMO

 

[deanna82437]

Good points!

I had asked about the time the photo was taken in a prior post but no one appears to know.

I also would like to know what all the debris were and where they came from.

This image is just another angle from the same Dr. Phil site/video. I don't recall ever seeing either of these images in all the photos from SDSO.

 

[Quester]

This image is just another angle from the same Dr. Phil site/video. I don't recall ever seeing either of these images in all the photos from SDSO.

Thanks for posting that photo!

If that was the final resting place of the chandelier, one would almost have to have pulled the chain with chandelier intact up to the upper Newel post and swung on it, ?feet on top of chandelier?, like a pseudo Tarzan for the chandelier to have swung away, back, chain broke and chandelier landed where it is depicted in these photos. JMActiveImagination.

Wish we knew when these photos were taken and if the key items visible were unmoved after MS' fall or, if recreation, positioned exactly as they were after MS' fall.

 

[SweetT]

that top photo shows the scooter by the front door, and we know it wasnt there, it was on top of Max's leg(s). So it was for sure moved.

 

[time]

Looks like too much junk in there to just be EMT's... esp back in that alcove in the second pic. Is that dirt back there?

 

[time]

Anyone know when this picture was taken? As Quester said somewhere, it's a different chandelier?

 

[time]

Thought I remind everyone that the ring from the chandelier (I believe the ring connecting the chain to the chandelier) was found on the first balcony. I guess meaning the chandelier had to swing toward the balcony or?

Did one of the reports or somewhere say that now it is claimed that ring is NOT in evidence? Somebody help me here.

 

[SweetT]

There appears to be dirt back there and a plant...another photo I saw elsewhere showed plant foilage in the railing of the landing between the 1st and second flight of stairs along with what appeared to be the outline of a chandellier that had been on the ground and a weirdly placed rug...HMMMMMMMM

 

[inthedark14]

Anyone know when this picture was taken? As Quester said somewhere, it's a different chandelier?

I'm not certain it is different chandeleir. If you look at it hung and then sitting on the floor it could be the same. Maybe someone can do something to compare it side by side? Also in the non scene photo everything is super clean. You can see vacuum lines in the carpet. Is it a Realtor photo? In the "scene" photo the door is open with some kind of "debris" in front of it. Is this a photo taken directly after MS'S fall? Is there a date stamp edited out?

It is quite perplexing. Who provided these photos for publication? Does anyone know):truce: