Max's Scooter

[Morag]

One of the accessories which can be used with a skateboard or a scooter is a ramp. Some of these are smallish and lightweight enough to use indoors, whether with or without permission. I- having a skateboarding and scooter-using son- can imagine a boy using a ramp upstairs. There could be a period of 'flying through the air' with a ramp. Flying through the air and over the railing...

The ramp would certainly have been removed and perhaps concealed before too many questions were asked by Max's mother or others.

 

[K_Z]

One of the accessories which can be used with a skateboard or a scooter is a ramp. Some of these are smallish and lightweight enough to use indoors, whether with or without permission. I- having a skateboarding and scooter-using son- can imagine a boy using a ramp upstairs. There could be a period of 'flying through the air' with a ramp. Flying through the air and over the railing...

The ramp would certainly have been removed and perhaps concealed before too many questions were asked by Max's mother or others.

Now that is an interesting thought. The scooter wheels still look shiny on the contact edges in the SDSO pics-- I'm wondering if this particular scooter was ever ridden outdoors at all. Perhaps it was a permanent "inside" toy.

As far as the ramp goes, I could envision a child standing on the newel post with the platform balanced atop-- and planning to do a trick jump back to the 2nd floor landing while on the scooter (as in the youtube videos posted in the planking thread). And then losing balance and falling backwards into the chandelier with the scooter, and ending up landing head/ face first. That doesn't take much to imagine.

I actually worked several years ago for a few weeks over a couple of summers as the camp nurse at an elite gymnastics and extreme skateboard camp (I had a child attending camp). I was completely amazed at what the young boys could do on skateboards and scooters-- and in the blink of an eye. If there was any kind of structure (even trees!), the boys were up on top in an instant, doing trick leaps to the ground. They weren't supposed to, of course-- but when the instructors weren't watching, they did all kinds of mischief with their boards. (They especially liked terrorizing the gymnasts!)

 

[Betty P]

What if Max was not the one responsible for those marks on the newel, nor the scooter ending up in the foyer?

I think the massive elephant in the room is Rebecca's claim that Max (despite his head injuries, and horrendously severe, and fatal, asphyxiating injuries) whispered 'Ocean' (and not 'Mommy'...like most kids would..) -- and the way Ocean just happened to be sitting on the landing when people arrived... because, you know, excitable young dogs are so prone to sitting still in handily incriminating positions, when all about them is chaos..?? :waitasec:

If all this 'Ocean' business was a deflection (and I think it was!) -- then why - what was it meant to deflect from? If Max's death was so plainly a scooter accident (which I doubt) then why make a case for the dog being to blame?

A sense of guilt for neglecting to keep an eye on Max? Or something else?

ETA:

Also -- should the timeline here be amended to: 'Rebecca claimed to begin CPR'?

Since CPR was not actually administered?

While keeping an open mind, I can't imagine another scenario with the scooter and 2nd floor stair railing. Let's explore the possibilities:

1. RZ climbs up on the newel post with the scooter. Why would she do something like that? Seems very unlikely.

2. RZ's sister climbed up on the newel post with the scooter to attempt a stunt. Even if RZ's sister was the one who used the scooter on the newel post/railing (and I doubt she did), she would have been the one harmed in an accident, not Max.

3. An unknown third person climbed up on the newel post with the scooter to attempt a stunt. Same problem with the scenario above: an accident would have harmed them, not Max.

The scooter impacted the top of the newel post in a very specific location, damaging it primarily with a strong impact from directly above the top of the newel post. It was Max's scooter and he was the one who was fatally injured.

As for RZ stating that Max whispered "Ocean", I'm not sure how that is relevant to anything. As someone else here proposed, it may have been a reflexive exhalation of breath from Max that she misinterpreted. Either way, we'll never know what she meant. She was dead before she had the opportunity to explain it.

 

[Carioca]

Apologies if I missed something (trying to catch up), but do we know as fact that the damaged newel post was the one at the top of the stairs and not the one heading down from the landing? If could have been thrown, or projected, from the top, hit the chandelier perhaps, and then hit the lower newel post. Just throwing this out as food for thought.

 

[Betty P]

Hi Carioca,

I wondered the same thing, but according to Dr. Bove's report

http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Bove_Report.pdf

"Officer Adkins also noted what he described as recent damage to the top of the banister rail and corner spindle at the top of the stairs. He also noted paint chips near the corner of the spindle."

The photo of the newel post on p. 9 of the report also has a caption that refers to it as the second floor railing and newel post.

 

[freespeech]

What if Max was not the one responsible for those marks on the newel, nor the scooter ending up in the foyer?

I think the massive elephant in the room is Rebecca's claim that Max (despite his head injuries, and horrendously severe, and fatal, asphyxiating injuries) whispered 'Ocean' (and not 'Mommy'...like most kids would..) -- and the way Ocean just happened to be sitting on the landing when people arrived... because, you know, excitable young dogs are so prone to sitting still in handily incriminating positions, when all about them is chaos..?? :waitasec:

If all this 'Ocean' business was a deflection (and I think it was!) -- then why - what was it meant to deflect from? If Max's death was so plainly a scooter accident (which I doubt) then why make a case for the dog being to blame?

A sense of guilt for neglecting to keep an eye on Max? Or something else?

ETA:

Also -- should the timeline here be amended to: 'Rebecca claimed to begin CPR'?

Since CPR was not actually administered?

Imo, and whether it was right or wrong, I believe that Rebecca may have been coached by Jonah about what to say. I get this impression because I don't know that I believe that he was at the gym and that the other kids had left.

If he and the others were there I have no problem in seeing him take charge by going into a damage control mode. However, with so little time to think through the details he could have come up with a less than coherent plan.

If Jonah attempted to place the blame on Ocean for the fall then maybe he instructed Rebecca to say that Max said Ocean but he did not think through that Max would not have been able to do that. Also, remember that Rebecca told Mary that she needed to be strong for Jonah.

So even if Rebecca was tired of the relationship and wanted out, then possibly, the crisis at hand caught her off guard and she felt like she had to stay and "suck it up" and "be strong" for Jonah. I don't know many women who who could bail at a time like that with out feeling like a total turd, imo.

 

[Inparadise]

Imo, and whether it was right or wrong, I believe that Rebecca may have been coached by Jonah about what to say. I get this impression because I don't know that I believe that he was at the gym and that the other kids had left.

If he and the others were there I have no problem in seeing him take charge by going into a damage control mode. However, with so little time to think through the details he could have come up with a less than coherent plan.

If Jonah attempted to place the blame on Ocean for the fall then maybe he instructed Rebecca to say that Max said Ocean but he did not think through that Max would not have been able to do that. Also, remember that Rebecca told Mary that she needed to be strong for Jonah.

So even if Rebecca was tired of the relationship and wanted out, then possibly, the crisis at hand caught her off guard and she felt like she had to stay and "suck it up" and "be strong" for Jonah. I don't know many women who who could bail at a time like that with out feeling like a total turd, imo.

Like you, I also believe that Jonah was there and convinced Rebecca to "cover" for him and the older kids........I can imagine what he promised her in return. I do think that he was/is afraid of having to deal with Dina in "Round 2"......after Gloria and Nathan were able to break the pre-nup in Round 1.

 

[MyBelle]

Imo, and whether it was right or wrong, I believe that Rebecca may have been coached by Jonah about what to say. I get this impression because I don't know that I believe that he was at the gym and that the other kids had left.

If he and the others were there I have no problem in seeing him take charge by going into a damage control mode. However, with so little time to think through the details he could have come up with a less than coherent plan.

If Jonah attempted to place the blame on Ocean for the fall then maybe he instructed Rebecca to say that Max said Ocean but he did not think through that Max would not have been able to do that. Also, remember that Rebecca told Mary that she needed to be strong for Jonah.

So even if Rebecca was tired of the relationship and wanted out, then possibly, the crisis at hand caught her off guard and she felt like she had to stay and "suck it up" and "be strong" for Jonah. I don't know many women who who could bail at a time like that with out feeling like a total turd, imo.

Not too many would intentionally lie to police about circumstances surrounding the death of a small child. Anyone who would do so is of poor moral character and has no credibility.

JMO

 

[justice be served]

Like you, I also believe that Jonah was there and convinced Rebecca to "cover" for him and the older kids........I can imagine what he promised her in return. I do think that he was/is afraid of having to deal with Dina in "Round 2"......after Gloria and Nathan were able to break the pre-nup in Round 1.

Astute words indeed and I believe this was the start of Rebecca's demise. I surmise that JS left little if no openings for any other response initially. But she then changed her mind.

 

[Inparadise]

Astute words indeed and I believe this was the start of Rebecca's demise. I surmise that JS left little if no openings for any other response initially. But she then changed her mind.

And she paid the ultimate price for doing so...........IMO.

 

[Inparadise]

Not too many would intentionally lie to police about circumstances surrounding the death of a small child. Anyone who would do so is of poor moral character and has no credibility.

JMO

People lie all the time to police.

 

[Carioca]

People lie all the time to police.

Especially if they believe they can get away with it since the cards are stacked so heavily in their favor.

 

[katydid23]

There is no way that Rz and XZ sat in the patrol car and lied about being the only people there when the child fell. XZ would not have kept up a lie like that, especially after her 'relative' was found dead. She would have told LE the truth at that point.

 

[MyBelle]

People lie all the time to police.

Sure they do. Lies lead to convictions.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

There is no way that Rz and XZ sat in the patrol car and lied about being the only people there when the child fell. XZ would not have kept up a lie like that, especially after her 'relative' was found dead. She would have told LE the truth at that point.

ITA. It boils down to innocent people have no reason to lie. I'm amazed at those who float logic that someone who lies to police isn't capable of negligence in caring for a child.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

ITA. It boils down to innocent people have no reason to lie. I'm amazed at those who float logic that someone who lies to police isn't capable of negligence in caring for a child.

JMO

Are you accusing Rebecca's sister of killing Max? Can you clarify? Who do you think killed Max and why do you think so?

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

While I don't have a scooter to compare the pattern of the markings on the newel post with, something about this just doesn't seem to fit. Perhaps the damage was not done all at one time, but from a series of collisions into the post?

Or perhaps as Max was possibly being assaulted?

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

I find the logic that Rebecca was not happy with the relationship and going to leave Jonah, yet she was like a puppet to him and was told what to say to the police to cover for him and his family non-logical. And since he was at the gym and the other children were not there, its just a ludicrous argument, IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Are you accusing Rebecca's sister of killing Max? Can you clarify? Who do you think killed Max and why do you think so?

All I said was that innocent people have no reason to lie to police about circumstances surrounding the death of a child.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I find the logic that Rebecca was not happy with the relationship and going to leave Jonah, yet she was like a puppet to him and was told what to say to the police to cover for him and his family non-logical. And since he was at the gym and the other children were not there, its just a ludicrous argument, IMO.

It is an argument that is very unflattering to RZ.


JMO