MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[sorrell skye]

How did he get these injuries?

That's what I want know - in addition to why none of the officers sought emergency medical care for him - even when he was initially found unresponsive, until it was too late to save his life.

 

[SStarr33]

[h=1]Police watchdog group plans 'Don't Run' ad campaign[/h]
It's called 'Don't Run' – and it is a direct response to the number of incidents of police-involved shootings around the country and here in metro Atlanta.
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...947579/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

It's crazy that they have to do this, but I guess you have to when you have parents like the Freddie Gray attorney who teach their kids to run from police :facepalm:

 

[octobermoon]

Is it possible that Freddie Gray could have severed his own spine and crushed his own voicebox?

From a medical standpoint, it is unlikely that the 25-year-old Baltimore man injured himself in the back of that van. The severity of his injuries seem too grave for him to have done that to himself simply by thrashing around or banging his head on something.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/doctor-freddie-gray-not-sever-spine-article-1.2205179

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

But Anderson 360 had a report about that last night. FG wasn't the first person who died from a rough ride. Not sure if that is on line but will look for a link if you need it. Had a young white couple on who was given that treatment and it sounds horrific.

I am not too worried about whether the arrest was justified or not. I will trust the judge to rule on the motion. Strange that the other officers didn't file too. But to be truthful I am almost always pro-prosecution in cases. I am for law and order. I don't care if you wear a badge or are wealthy, a doc or a priest. It is the crime I care about not the status or profession of the defendant.

How do we know FG died during a rough ride? Link please.

 

[CoolJ]

How do you know these cops are innocent? From your posts it is obvious you are very pro-cop, but I cannot understand why you ignore evidence that Freddy Gray was not treated legally or humanely. And he is the victim. And he is DEAD.

I am "pro cop" too. But my respect for LE and the job that they do causes me to want to speak out against the bad element within their ranks. Others seem to go the other way and will not even fathom the idea that LE could also be criminals. Yet we see examples of it everyday. Each to their own I guess. We are all viewing things through a different lens. If I had LE family, I suppose I may see things differently.

 

[jjenny]

It's crazy that they have to do this, but I guess you have to when you have parents like the Freddie Gray attorney who teach their kids to run from police :facepalm:

I saw him claiming Freddie's mistake was not running faster.
I don't understand what he is thinking when he says things like that.

 

[jjenny]

Is it possible that Freddie Gray could have severed his own spine and crushed his own voicebox?

From a medical standpoint, it is unlikely that the 25-year-old Baltimore man injured himself in the back of that van. The severity of his injuries seem too grave for him to have done that to himself simply by thrashing around or banging his head on something.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/doctor-freddie-gray-not-sever-spine-article-1.2205179

Well, then how did it happen? The charges filed indicate that the theory is that he got his injuries in the van.
If he couldn't get them by trashing around or banging his head, then how could he get them during "rough ride?"

 

[octobermoon]

How do we know FG died during a rough ride? Link please.

We don't. I should have put "IMO" in the post. I should have been more clear. We do know the van is where both the state and the union said/think his injuries happened.

 

[katydid23]

Is it possible that Freddie Gray could have severed his own spine and crushed his own voicebox?

From a medical standpoint, it is unlikely that the 25-year-old Baltimore man injured himself in the back of that van. The severity of his injuries seem too grave for him to have done that to himself simply by thrashing around or banging his head on something.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/doctor-freddie-gray-not-sever-spine-article-1.2205179

AFAIK, the ONLY source for that description of injuries has been the Gray family attorney. I want to wait until the ME report to see the exact injuries revealed.

 

[octobermoon]

Well, then how did it happen? The charges filed indicate that the theory is that he got his injuries in the van.
If he couldn't get them by trashing around or banging his head, then how could he get them during "rough ride?"

Since he wasn't belted in and was handcuffed and shackled if the van came to a sudden stop it would have thrown him back towards the rear door of the van. I'll see if I can find a video from AC360.

 

[octobermoon]

AFAIK, the ONLY source for that description of injuries has been the Gray family attorney. I want to wait until the ME report to see the exact injuries revealed.

No one has disputed it, but that is fair to wait.

 

[octobermoon]

Anderson Cooper 360° @AC360 · 3h 3 hours ago
#FreddieGray isn't the first person in #Baltimore to die after a ride in a police van. http://cnn.it/1btJuSo

 

[popsicle]

Justin Fenton ‏@justin_fenton 38s38 seconds ago
Many defense attys I talk to, who slam cops routinely in court over procedure, are nevertheless stunned by the false arrest charges (1/2)

Justin Fenton ‏@justin_fenton 44s45 seconds ago
While some others have an "about time" stance on it (2/2)

 

[Tawny]

LOLing at the constant "was it a legal arrest or not" discussions like even if it were a legal arrest, that just excuses these officers of their culpability in this man's death.

The man is DEAD. Criminal or not. Lawful arrest or not. He is DEAD. Although some would have us believe the world is better off for it, but I personally believe every life is valuable in some regard.

Can we stop blaming the VICTIM in this situation by debating whether his freaking pocket knife was worth dying over. It could have been a machete and it doesn't matter because it isn't even why they chased him. They chased him because he bolted after what they assumed was a drug deal. The knife is moot to the overarching situation which is a DEAD MAN IN POLICE CUSTODY.

JMO and all that.

 

[Tawny]

And FWIW, I don't believe at all that the injuries occurred in the van, but that's JMHO.

 

[Curious Guy]

OH MY. This triggered my memory. I KNEW I recognized Marilyn's name from somewhere:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/phylici...misses-charges-in-north-carolina-teens-death/

Last month, Howard declared a mistrial in Johnson's second trial. He had been scheduled to face a third trial this March -- until Tuesday's ruling.

Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby said in a written statement Tuesday: "I want to be clear that there was no prosecutorial misconduct in this case. The court agreed there was no misconduct in its prior ruling in December, and again today."

She added that "... the court had no jurisdiction to grant the acquittal and we will be seeking an appeal on those grounds."

Barnes' father told CBS Baltimore on Tuesday that he believes the judicial system has failed his daughter.

"They have the right person," Russell Barnes said of Johnson. "Baltimore City is letting a child killer -- in my mind -- go and go free."


[ long story short---the killer of Phylicia Barnes walked free because these trials were botched by the state. JMO]

Why am I not surprised?

 

[Tawny]

Just because someone 'dies' in someones care , it does not mean they are guilty of a crime.

And not all of the 6 officers were in charge of FG when he died.

Yeah but he didn't just have a heart attack or a stroke and up and die. He was gravely injured by forceful trauma. NOT the same thing as just dying in someone's care.

 

[Curious Guy]

LOLing at the constant "was it a legal arrest or not" discussions like even if it were a legal arrest, that just excuses these officers of their culpability in this man's death.

The man is DEAD. Criminal or not. Lawful arrest or not. He is DEAD. Although some would have us believe the world is better off for it, but I personally believe every life is valuable in some regard.

Can we stop blaming the VICTIM in this situation by debating whether his freaking pocket knife was worth drying over. It could have been a machete and it doesn't matter because it isn't even why they chased him. They chased him because he bolted after what they assumed was a drug deal. The knife is moot to the overarching situation which is a DEAD MAN IN POLICE CUSTODY.

JMO and all that.

Over dramatic much? No we can't stop discussing it because it is central to the SA's justifying charging all six LE with murder. I've seen not one poster that believes FG's death wasn't tragic and needs to be investigated.

However, just because some want to condemn the accused without looking at all the facts doesn't mean it works that way. All lives matter.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

LOLing at the constant "was it a legal arrest or not" discussions like even if it were a legal arrest, that just excuses these officers of their culpability in this man's death.

The man is DEAD. Criminal or not. Lawful arrest or not. He is DEAD. Although some would have us believe the world is better off for it, but I personally believe every life is valuable in some regard.

Can we stop blaming the VICTIM in this situation by debating whether his freaking pocket knife was worth drying over. It could have been a machete and it doesn't matter because it isn't even why they chased him. They chased him because he bolted after what they assumed was a drug deal. The knife is moot to the overarching situation which is a DEAD MAN IN POLICE CUSTODY.

JMO and all that.

If you really want to know why some here might not look at it simply as he is DEAD, I can explain it from my perspective.
I wouldn't want a cop's job....actually there's zero amount of money to do it. Why? Because I have purposefully & carefully led my life abiding the laws & not encircling myself amongst criminals who need victims to commit crimes. I won't live my life that way & have worked hard to avoid that lifestyle.

And there may be some here that understand & know the value of the adage: "If you live by the sword; you die by the sword". What does that mean when it comes to a person with a very lengthy rap sheet---a criminal.....what does it mean statistically?
It means that there are probably studies that will show the increased risk of homocide (either by cop or fellow criminal) when you repeatedly break the law.

And every night in major cities the stats prove it: usually criminals killing each other---and yet no outcry about that! Why?
Moo

 

[EllieBee]

I am "pro cop" too. But my respect for LE and the job that they do causes me to want to speak out against the bad element within their ranks. Others seem to go the other way and will not even fathom the idea that LE could also be criminals. Yet we see examples of it everyday. Each to their own I guess. We are all viewing things through a different lens. If I had LE family, I suppose I may see things differently.

I am pro-cop, too, but not to the point of blaming a victim for the actions of six LEO's charged in his death.

If they are found not guilty, then they are not guilty. But this still does not then place Freddy on trial. This is a VICTIM FRIENDLY forum and I am frankly shocked at the fact that there are so many posts blaming Freddy while defending those charged in his death.

AND blantantly ignoring any evidence which supports the charges against those named.

C'mon.....are there people here who really think that there is no merit to the charges against these six officers? Are people really that set on blaming the man who died after a ride in a wagon while screaming for medical help?

It honestly makes me sick that there are people who think a man deserved to die without a trial. Just because he had a record. Disgusting.