MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[MissSunshine]

Questions--what exactly is Western District? And what is Central Booking?

Western District is the police station and Central Bookings is the jail.

 

[CoolJ]

I do agree that the charges seem rushed, and I hope that doesn't come back to bite the prosecution in the tush. Cases like these, especially those involving LEO, need to be extremely carefully handled. What a mess this entire situation is from minute one

I have to think that Mosby is holding back info and evidence for the time being. Otherwise you are right, she was too quick to pull the trigger and things could get worse because of it.

I think she is not showing all of her cards.

 

[CARIIS]

I have to disagree and I'll explain why. An investigation does and needs to be done regarding Freddie. The problem is everyone has made it 100 times worse than what was needed because of people jumping to the wrong conclusions not based on facts. Peoples wrong conclusions has caused people to react as if those conclusions were true. His death is true but to act as though every death is murder is jumping to a premature conclusion.

Had people not demanded a rush to judgement the SA and mayor would not be taking the pounding and criticism they are faced with today.

It's very possible one or more officers would have been charged anyway but in the rush to judgement and millions of dollars later we're still left with facts not discovered yet. Nobody's been cleared and it just takes time to sort out truth from fiction. False assumptions, false conclusions, a lynch mob mentality has created it's own cycle of destructiveness. JMO

re later we're still left with facts not discovered yet.

I am not a patient person! The reality here tho is WE do not KNOW a lot - but I think it reasonable to cocnclude that they do. The headline of "rushing" this is a media frenzy - she is young, wants a career - I just think it is highly doubtful that she would have done what she did without having some interesting data (someone ratted on the whole thing).

Do I think all of em will get jail time - no - am I thrilled , that finally LE is on notice that this abuse is not going to be tolerated any longer and LE better clean up your act.

Have you all heard (will try to find), last night DOn Lemmon - the 22 year old, that LE murdered 4 months ago and to this day they have not told the family anything. The kid was bipolar, the girlfrined bought out his meds to the cops at the scene, they took him to jail , not a mental facility, restrained him in a chair, tasered him and he died.

This is going on way to long

I am glad indictments were issued - no matter outcome- if for nothing else to send a message to LE - clean up your act or face some consequences.

IMO , long overdue.....................................I have lived it ..........................needs to cease

 

[CARIIS]

I have to think that Mosby is holding back info and evidence for the time being. Otherwise you are right, she was too quick to pull the trigger and things could get worse because of it.

I think she is not showing all of her cards.

I so agree cool - they never reveal all, the media should know this and quit acting like she unlaoaded all and this is it. She is a figurehead, I would assume a big city has some very seasoned prosectors - she was well advised. Again, the main deal with all this is it will keep the issue alive.

The sad deal is fed govt should just buy body cams -- it benefits all peroid.


All behavior has meaning - there is certainly "something" about the the mystery shop not being revealed until private video surfaced. I think the van driver slammed on the brakes really bad - that is why he knew not to make a statement- he knew he really really hurt this kid .

 

[CoolJ]

I so agree cool - they never reveal all, the media should know this and quit acting like she unlaoaded all and this is it. She is a figurehead, I would assume a big city has some very seasoned prosectors - she was well advised. Again, the main deal with all this is it will keep the issue alive.

The sad deal is fed govt should just buy body cams -- it benefits all peroid.


All behavior has meaning - there is certainly "something" about the the mystery shop not being revealed until private video surfaced. I think the van driver slammed on the brakes really bad - that is why he knew not to make a statement- he knew he really really hurt this kid .

JMO, but what I think is possible is that FG was being used as an informant and this is the BPD method for getting CI's. Arrest them on borderline charges and see what the word on the street is. Again. JMO.

Full disclosure - I was a HUGE fane of "The Wire" which was filled with stuff like this. Also, while on vacay in Jamaica last year I hung out with 3 couples from B'more for the week and they all said that the show didn't even come close to showing how bad it was.

 

[CARIIS]

Media is playing she just got the ME report that morning. This is a huge story. Everyone was talking back and forth (cops/mayor/govner/SA/ME) for weeks:

information was shared with police investigators throughout the process, a common practice

More info on her lead investigator:

Avon Mackel, is a former high-ranking Baltimore police officer who was stripped of his command post in 2009 for failing to follow through on a robbery investigation that two of his officers mishandled and did not report. A Baltimore Sun report said police in the district were accused of classifying serious crimes as lesser in order to log lower crime rates.

n October 2009, four months after his demotion, Baltimore County police sent a SWAT team to Mackel's home, responding a drunken incident in which he was seen holding a gun, according to a police report of the incident obtained by CNN. Officers said an intoxicated Mackel refused to cooperate and was visibly upset, according to the report provided in response to a public records request. An officer then "observed the barrel of Mackel's handgun hanging over the edge of the molding at the top of the steps and saw Mackel pull the gun out of sight," the report said.
Police used a Taser on Mackel while he was on the phone with his father "crying and yelling," before he barricaded himself in his bedroom.



WOW the task force was way bigger than i thought
40-plus member police task force set up to look in the death of Freddie Gray.

CNN lost link

 

[CoolJ]

And I will also add that I had a good talk with a cop today regarding some injuries he suffered on the job. He mentioned with the recent popularity of the UFC that many of the criminals these days are all training in Mixed Martial Arts. Everybody wants to fight.

So there is that. They have a really tough job, no question about it.

 

[dandy]

ms. croyder was on hannity last nite http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/05/...osecutor-slams-charges-against-baltimore-cops

 

[MissSunshine]

JMO, but what I think is possible is that FG was being used as an informant and this is the BPD method for getting CI's. Arrest them on borderline charges and see what the word on the street is. Again. JMO.

Full disclosure - I was a HUGE fane of "The Wire" which was filled with stuff like this. Also, while on vacay in Jamaica last year I hung out with 3 couples from B'more for the week and they all said that the show didn't even come close to showing how bad it was.

O/T kinda..
Have you ever seen The Corner?

The Corner is a good mini-series about how it is to grow up in West Baltimore. It is based on the real life of a kid and his family. Check it out if you haven't seen it.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...gray-investigation-20150502-story.html#page=1

"Prosecutors had conferred with police from time to time"

BPD Commisher Batts on CNN: "She [Mosby] didn't want to be seen connected to the police organization, so the communication was limited as compared to what I'm used to," he said. Baltimore's police commissioner says he didn't know that six of his officers would face charges -- some including second degree murder and manslaughter -- in the death of Freddie Gray until 10 minutes before State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby announced it on national television. "

Doesn't sound to me like Mosby and Batts were working together all along the way to me.

 

[katydid23]

And I will also add that I had a good talk with a cop today regarding some injuries he suffered on the job. He mentioned with the recent popularity of the UFC that many of the criminals these days are all training in Mixed Martial Arts. Everybody wants to fight.

So there is that. They have a really tough job, no question about it.

That is exactly what my son tells me. He is ready to quit his job. It is way too dangerous right now. The people he has to engage are very aggressive and quick to start fighting and/or running. Even over simple transgressions.

And his department expects cops to chase fleeing suspects into fields at night. None of the cops want to do that anymore because it is a NO WIN situation for them. If they get in a physical fight they do not feel comfortable using force--they might be arrested, they feel.

LOTS of cops are stepping way back and not being proactive at all. Crime rates will go up, I promise.

 

[katydid23]

Logically, what will happen in Baltimore now that police know they can be criminally prosecuted for arrests they make based on facts they sincerely believe to be true at the time? A sharp decrease in arrests and a sharp increase in crime imo.

EXACTLY. And I talked to a few cops today that I am very close to. It is happening already in their squad. They do not feel comfortable 'engaging' suspects anymore. they do not feel they have support from the top brass, nor from the press or the general public.

Every interaction they have now is very tense. The people they stop or deal with at calls are very aggressive, cocky, and want to initiate problems. A lot more of their stops end in people running and scuffling with them.

This is going to swing too far in the wrong direction and the cops are going to stop going after the criminals because they feel their hands are tied. One day the public will reap the 'rewards' from that. A few less unarmed suspects will be shot---a lot more criminals will be emboldened and running amuck.

 

[DebinGA]

Murder rate in Baltimore was already extremely high. For instance, last year stats were available [2013 or 2014] NYC pop. 8.5 million had 333 murders. Baltimore pop. 600,000 had 233.

 

[Trident]

Why bother to police at all? The denizens of Baltimore seem to like their way of life, let 'em have it, and all that goes with it.

 

[DebinGA]

NYC crime stats for the past 20 yrs. prove that zero-tolerance, aka "broken window, policing significantly lowers serious crime. When Martin O'Malley instituted a version of that as Mayor of Baltimore, serious crime fell there too. Stephanie R-B has been Mayor since Feb. 4, 2010 and was City Council President before that, so the buck stops with her.

 

[Trident]

Yes, we heard all about the "broken windows" policy after the New York police shootings. I believe it is/was thought to be too hard/unfair on criminal minorities. So, now we can have broken windows and petty crime and let the place go to hell and suffer all that goes with a filthy, unkempt pile of crap real estate. That's the way some people want it, and by God, they shall have it, statistics be damned and if crime goes up it's the fault of those with privilege and work for a living.

MOO

 

[epiphany]

NYC crime stats for the past 20 yrs. prove that zero-tolerance, aka "broken window, policing significantly lowers serious crime. When Martin O'Malley instituted a version of that as Mayor of Baltimore, serious crime fell there too. Stephanie R-B has been Mayor since Feb. 4, 2010 and was City Council President before that, so the buck stops with her.

In NYC, you have seen the PC diplomatically voice his concerns IF and WHEN he disagrees with the Mayor re LE concerns, and stand by his department. He's visible. He's on the news, on twitter, in the newspapers, etc. He's vocal.

Frankly, I don't see that in this city. This PC is mostly in agreement with his Mayor in Baltimore.

 

[dandy]

NYC crime stats for the past 20 yrs. prove that zero-tolerance, aka "broken window, policing significantly lowers serious crime. When Martin O'Malley instituted a version of that as Mayor of Baltimore, serious crime fell there too. Stephanie R-B has been Mayor since Feb. 4, 2010 and was City Council President before that, so the buck stops with her.

it can be done - look at harlem. they flooded it with cops. if they don't like the laws - then do away with jaywalking (what a horror scene that would be) . . . do away with requiring a blinker signal (woops, tons of rear end accidents) . . . do away with full stop at stop signs, etc. these "broken window" laws are there for safety of ALL.

imo it boils down to individuals lacking respect for authority figures.

edit - and freddie would be alive today if he didn't run.

 

[epiphany]

Baltimore cannot be compared to NYC.

You can't spit in this town without worrying about a ticket, etc.

Some consider it the other extreme now. No comparison.

 

[epiphany]

NYC has a progressive mayor and city council.

That hasn't stopped the PC from stating his vision for the city & his department.

Again, I do not see that with the Police Commissioner of Baltimore.

He and the Mayor pretty much view things similarly.