MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[branwynbreeze]

Audio post was pulled from here. I am hoping it's ok in scanner thread in basement. Alerting a mod about this in case.

 

[WhoaIsMe]

Just because someone 'dies' in someones care , it does not mean they are guilty of a crime.

And not all of the 6 officers were in charge of FG when he died.

This is where I tend to get lost. I want to know what happened to FG. I do not place blind faith in police officers. I respect their job but don't give them a pass just because of it. However, when people cannot wait for facts and instead want to behave like a lynch mob, when it seems as if people do not care who pays so long as 6 degrees of people do, they've lost me, I find myself defending the side I was previously looking at with suspicion because some seem not to care if they are creating victims so long as they get a pound of flesh.

Sorry. If I have a problem with the idea of an officer abusing their power, I have a bigger problem with the idea of the SA doing the same thing.

Also, the rioting put quite a damper on the sympathy I'd been experiencing at the start.



Sent from my SCH-S960L using Tapatalk 2

 

[jjenny]

Something that caught my attention was an interview with an anonymous cop that said Gray was well known and had been used as an informant. IF, and big IF is that someone maybe connected to the heroin trafficking wanted him taken out. [The undisclosed stop].

I am a big fan of The Wire, so maybe I have just been watching too many crime dramas....but the news on the Baltimore Patriots coming out today really makes Baltimore look bad, too.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306414/

I think that's extremely far fetched. If somebody wanted him taken out, they could have done so while he was out on the street, and not inside a police van.

 

[vanlutz]

I imagine across America a mass spike in LE disability retirements citing PTSD from the last year's episodes alone. I bet the current LE standards will have to be reviewed and changed to fill the many vacant spots. When I lived in NC a few years ago, LE new hires had to have a college degree. I bet that will change now.

The only reason I think police don't walk off the job all over the US is because they need the money. You couldn't pay me enough to be a cop now. The hatred and lies being spouted about law enforcement is like never before, not even when they were corrupt in the 60s and 70s.

If you go on youtube and check out some police videos, the cops are calm and the people they pull over or stop are acting like morons. Why do I have to show my ID? Why this, why that? What could be 30 seconds ends up being minutes because these idiots just won't cooperate.

A cop asks for a guy's ID and the guy puts his hands up and starts screaming "Hands up don't shoot". All over ID.

 

[vanlutz]

I am just so curious about why this particular 'ride' led to a death. I think they left many arrestees unbuckled in the van. Why did FG die when hundreds of others did not?

He was supposedly laid on the floor, the bolt that matches the injury is located where your feet should be.

This is speculation and strictly my opinion: If he ingested heroin, it basically made him go nuts. The drug effect assisted in his actions. If that kicked in while he was in the back of the van, there's no telling the effects it had on him.

If heroin in his system is true (there's no evidence, just a cop on TV saying it) it will be a part of the defense for any cop who was around when Freddie was in the van.

 

[katydid23]

Something that caught my attention was an interview with an anonymous cop that said Gray was well known and had been used as an informant. IF, and big IF is that someone maybe connected to the heroin trafficking wanted him taken out. [The undisclosed stop].

I am a big fan of The Wire, so maybe I have just been watching too many crime dramas....but the news on the Baltimore Patriots coming out today really makes Baltimore look bad, too.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306414/

BOSTON Patriots....Not BALTIMORE PAtriots....:floorlaugh:

 

[al66pine]

I think that's extremely far fetched. If somebody wanted him taken out, they could have done so while he was out on the street, and not inside a police van.

True, far fetched for anyone to injure or kill him in police van,
as that w/h/bn waaaaaaaay easier many other places.

I personally subscribe to few instances of ppl 'sending a message'
with certain features or aspects of their crimes.
But could this be a gang (or other entity) 'sending a message'
to another gang or to LE agencies to the effect -
'does not matter that FG was in van in LE custody,
we can get to whoever we want and have it blamed on LE.'

But if that the idea behind attack in van, seems like perp(s) would have done a
'better job' of making sure FG was dead in the van, and not possibly able to talk,
i.e., could have used alternative means, like knife or gun.
OTOH, gunfire w/be unlikely to go noticed by ppl on the street, as well as LEOs at van.

Just tossing around ideas, pure speculation, no basis in fact.

 

[corundogs]

Something that caught my attention was an interview with an anonymous cop that said Gray was well known and had been used as an informant. IF, and big IF is that someone maybe connected to the heroin trafficking wanted him taken out. [The undisclosed stop].

I am a big fan of The Wire, so maybe I have just been watching too many crime dramas....but the news on the Baltimore Patriots coming out today really makes Baltimore look bad, too.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306414/

Re: The Wire...me too! I mentioned it yesterday. It's such a phenomenal show!

Re: The "Baltimore" Patriots.

Yes, there is negative news today about the Patriots. Except they are the New England Patriots. The Baltimore Ravens were playing them during the Deflate Gate game. LOL!!

 

[al66pine]

BOSTON Patriots....Not BALTIMORE PAtriots....:floorlaugh:

In defense of ShadyLady

Okay, katydid23, have it your way, Boston Patriots, not Baltimore Patriots, as if there's some kind of difference.
After all they are both East Coast cities, pretty much alike, iykwim?
Just speaking from the perspective of ppl living out here in the great flyover.

 

[ShadyLady]

BOSTON Patriots....Not BALTIMORE PAtriots....:floorlaugh:

LOL....ops...lol. Don't tell my brothers....duh.

 

[time]

I am just so curious about why this particular 'ride' led to a death. I think they left many arrestees unbuckled in the van. Why did FG die when hundreds of others did not?

I'd just like to ask where is a reference for hundreds of others being unbuckled? It's against departmental policy to be unbuckled.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...d-gray-rough-rides-20150423-story.html#page=1

 

[ShadyLady]

Re: The Wire...me too! I mentioned it yesterday. It's such a phenomenal show!

Re: The "Baltimore" Patriots.

Yes, there is negative news today about the Patriots. Except they are the New England Patriots. The Baltimore Ravens were playing them during the Deflate Gate game. LOL!!

I'm still laughing....

And had no idea that the Wire was on Amazon Prime with 5? seasons!! I am starting at season one again and will be binge watching this week!! I had only seen season one months ago.

 

[K_Z]

Is it possible that Freddie Gray's death was just such a freak accident?

Does the prosecution have to prove that it was not such a freak accident? Or is it enough to prove that he went into the van alive and died within days after coming out of the van? Is that enough to convict law enforcement officers of the murder and manslaughter charges?

Yes, of course it's possible. But until there is more information made public, such as the TWO autopsies, it's impossible to truly evaluate what happened.

Social media always gets the first chance to speak and shape the interpretation. Now we have a very young, politically ambitious, and painfully inexperienced (IMO), newly minted prosecutor that appears to have relied not on seasoned professionals, and a thorough investigation, but her own rushed "parallel" investigation with 4-5 close advisors, to bring what appears to be excessive charges. The truth will take months upon months to emerge. Just as in the Michael Brown case. And by then a lot of people lose interest in the truth, and the false interpretations persist.

Until then, reasonable questions about actual evidence hang in the air like a foul odor that everyone has to pretend they can't smell, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

I'd just like to ask where is a reference for hundreds of others being unbuckled? It's against departmental policy to be unbuckled.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...d-gray-rough-rides-20150423-story.html#page=1

It has been said by several pundits and cops being interviewed that if it was deemed unsafe to do so, they would not try and buckle them in. The policy had only recently been changed to make it mandatory, apparently.

 

[KEVINinTO]

I'd just like to ask where is a reference for hundreds of others being unbuckled? It's against departmental policy to be unbuckled.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...d-gray-rough-rides-20150423-story.html#page=1

The policy mandating that prisoners be buckled in came into effect a few death before FG's arrest. Up until the change in policy it was left up to the officers discretion.

 

[time]

The policy mandating that prisoners be buckled in came into effect a few death before FG's arrest. Up until the change in policy it was left up to the officers discretion.

Well, then it should have been required 10 years ago.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...istory-of-accidentally-killing-its-perps.html

[Nicole] Leake would deny that she gave him what is known in Baltimore as a “rough ride,” where the van is driven in such a fashion as to jounce and jangle the prisoners. She did estimate that she reached a nearby police station in less than half the time it would have taken at the speed limit.


“When she arrived at the District and opened the back door of the van, Mr. Johnson was lying on the floor of the van and could not move,” court papers say.

The 'rough ride' is a well known tactic to inflict fear, damage, or pain without being held accountable for it or directly inflicting it.

 

[KEVINinTO]

VIDEO: Interesting interview on CNN with Page Croyder - former Deputy SA of Baltimore. As with her op-ed in the SUN Croyder is scathing in her criticism of Mosby.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fmr-depu...ty-mosbys-police-charges-incompetent-at-best/

 

[katydid23]

Well, then it should have been required 10 years ago.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...istory-of-accidentally-killing-its-perps.html



The 'rough ride' is a well known tactic to inflict fear, damage, or pain without being held accountable for it or directly inflicting it.

We know about the earlier death and have discussed it here. It has not happened again in ten years. Why did FG die and none others if it is so widespread and common?

 

[Tawny]

We know about the earlier death and have discussed it here. It has not happened again in ten years. Why did FG die and none others if it is so widespread and common?

It hasn't been reported since. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just that no one has died from the rough rides since then.

 

[Ausgirl]

Something that caught my attention was an interview with an anonymous cop that said Gray was well known and had been used as an informant. IF, and big IF is that someone maybe connected to the heroin trafficking wanted him taken out. [The undisclosed stop].

I am a big fan of The Wire, so maybe I have just been watching too many crime dramas....but the news on the Baltimore Patriots coming out today really makes Baltimore look bad, too.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306414/

This anonymous cop is a "friend of the officers" (plural) in the case.

And the whole point of the statement is to put across the idea that Freddy Gray, as an (alleged) "informant" regularly "put on a show" when being arrested, to hide his alleged informant status.

Ie, the "friend" of the accused cops is trying to say that any distress Gray appeared to be in at the time of his apprehension was just acting, nothing to see here, move along.

And why I think this and so many other statements have made about Gray (twisting the statement of the other guy in the van, etc) is pure BS is this:

Officer Brian Rice -- the guy who "made eye contact" with Gray right before Gray fled -- is said by one witness to have previously beaten Gray and this why he fled. And given what's been revealed about Officer Rice's behavioural issues in the past, I'm not disinclined to believe this witness. Let alone the appalling amount of clear police brutality that's gone on, and gone unpunished, in that city..

Brian Rice, in a rage anbd stinking of alcohol, waged war on his ex wife and her new husband, breaking and entering their home, trying to run over the new husband, contacting new hubby's work with fax's from the dept, making threats --- and in a spectacular display of anger management issues, tried to abduct his ex and their child at gunpoint, which sparked a 1.5 hour standoff with police outside the ex's home.

Msm report on Rice: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ie-gray-had-pattern-of-violence-court-filings

10-page complaint from ex's new husband: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2072504-lt-brian-rice-peace-order-complaint.html

Not only was he allowed to walk away -- literally, just walk home -- from that incident, he somehow got to keep being a police officer. What in the heck does this tell us about how Baltimore PD operates? Note how the complaint was dismissed by a judge. Wtf.

And THIS violent individual, clearly protected by the PD and the court against prosecution for his crimes (that ANY one else would have been jailed for..), is the guy Gray ran from. And there's a witness, saying he ran because Officer Anger Issues had beaten him up before. Looking at this cop's behaviour and the lack of consequences he faced for it, how credible is that witness?

Or should we believe this "friend" of the accused officers that Gray was only acting when we hear him screaming in pain.

I suppose he 'acted' himself to death as well.