MD MD - Frederick, WhtFem 17-45, UP7477, in steamer trunk in state park, Spondylolysis, Aug'82

[summergirl1]

Although there's insufficient DNA on her, technology is getting better at what they can get usable DNA from. As to her dental work, I'm guessing they probably sent her info to some East Coast dental schools back then to see if it jogged the memory of anyone? I've read of similar things being done as regards Does with unique or a lot of dental work. Hopefully someday she is identified.

 

[chaddylex]

Barbara Cotton was added to the rule out list on 8/4/22 (they listed her 3 times for some reason)

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

 

[marylandmissing]

Not sure if this reconstruction has ever been posted here: File:Cheerleader in the Trunk Carl Koppelman.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

 

[dotr]

Not sure if this reconstruction has ever been posted here: File:Cheerleader in the Trunk Carl Koppelman.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

Thank you!

Cheerleader_in_the_Trunk_Carl_Koppelman.jpg ‎(301 × 400 pixels, file size: 33 KB, MIME type: image/jpeg)

 

[marylandmissing]

Barbara Cotton was added to the rule out list on 8/4/22 (they listed her 3 times for some reason)

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

There was a recent post by NCMEC about the case...I saw it shared to three different groups that all came to the same theory on Barbara...So, likely different people were calling it in...I know it was looked into years ago, but not sure how much since it wasn't on the rule-out list...

 

[Alleykins]

Doe Network has her DNA listed as: Insufficient DNA for profiling
Of course, we can't see DNA statuses anymore in NaMus to see if maybe that's changed with today's tech.
Does anyone know if they've been able, or even made subsequent attempts, to obtain another DNA sample?
I fear without it, there's little chance of her being ID'd.
Also, I was looking over her dental description on DN again.

Dentals: Available. Extensive dental procedures, some of which are consistent with those performed by dental students. Including two crowns on left front teeth, a root canal and numerous fillings. She had one gold-filled tooth on the right upper side and several silver fillings.

I'm no odontologist (I would have considered the profession had I known it was a thing when I was picking a major for college, lol) but having this much work done speaks to her possibly being on the older end of the age range. Unless she had some type of dental trauma as a young person, which is possible if she were a gymnast, in addition to poor dental hygiene, I don't think she was a teen.

 

[Melt71]

@othram previous attempts show insufficient DNA to profile …

 

[marylandmissing]

@othram previous attempts show insufficient DNA to profile …

So they actually tried? Never heard that. I know Virginia Welch has been suspected to be her, but unfortunately there's no dentals (lost in a fire)...

 

[Alleykins]

So they actually tried? Never heard that. I know Virginia Welch has been suspected to be her, but unfortunately there's no dentals (lost in a fire)...

I'm wondering if Othram was tagged to see if they could maybe help get a usable sample with today's tech? I could be wrong though. I hadn't heard of any further attempts as of late, and I think this has been her DNA status for a while. I could be wrong about this, too. I'm going from memory.

 

[Natasha Mullins]

If I recall there have been cases where the Doe Net has listed the person as not having sufficient DNA but with more attempts, a profile was extracted (Julie Doe I believe???). I agree with others that I'd like to see a lab try again. DNA techniques continue to improve every year.

 

[Alleykins]

If I recall there have been cases where the Doe Net has listed the person as not having sufficient DNA but with more attempts, a profile was extracted (Julie Doe I believe???). I agree with others that I'd like to see a lab try again. DNA techniques continue to improve every year.

I don't know how up to date Doe Network is with DNA statuses, but it's all we have now since NaMus, which I think was more up to date, no longer lists identifiers.

 

[carbuff]

If I recall there have been cases where the Doe Net has listed the person as not having sufficient DNA but with more attempts, a profile was extracted (Julie Doe I believe???). I agree with others that I'd like to see a lab try again. DNA techniques continue to improve every year.

Yeah lots of cases try and try again if there's enough material for further testing. The Doenetwork information usually just reflects whatever the last official information was. So there might be additional testing going on and we wouldn't necessarily know.

 

[ntt1]

Yeah lots of cases try and try again if there's enough material for further testing. The Doenetwork information usually just reflects whatever the last official information was. So there might be additional testing going on and we wouldn't necessarily know.

I think "Insufficient DNA" was likely for STR comparison purposes when the case was entered into NAMUS.

Lots of cases deemed previously insufficient have since been solved via FGG, like Harper Jane Doe 1987 by DDP and Bibb County John Doe 1961 by Identifinders, for one example.

 

[chaddylex]

Back in 2010, I turned in a possible match for Cynthia Day who went missing in August 1990 - a body found a week after she went missing in Missouri (she went missing from Illinois)

The tried to extract DNA a few times from the bones, (that were in a box at the University of Texas) but they couldn't get enough because they "boiled the bones" to look for strike marks.

They also had dentals and fingerprints available for the Jane Doe. Cynthia's daughter at one time had her mother's dental records but misplaced them.

Years later they found a record of Cynthia's thumbprint and made a match. They were finally able to bring her home in 2019. And the possible match I sent in was her. (my first one - way before genealogy DNA started making matches) I am so glad we are finally able to see these Doe's get their names back. Grateful for genealogy.

 

[Alleykins]

Back in 2010, I turned in a possible match for Cynthia Day who went missing in August 1990 - a body found a week after she went missing in Missouri (she went missing from Illinois)

The tried to extract DNA a few times from the bones, (that were in a box at the University of Texas) but they couldn't get enough because they "boiled the bones" to look for strike marks.

They also had dentals and fingerprints available for the Jane Doe. Cynthia's daughter at one time had her mother's dental records but misplaced them.

Years later they found a record of Cynthia's thumbprint and made a match. They were finally able to bring her home in 2019. And the possible match I sent in was her. (my first one - way before genealogy DNA started making matches) I am so glad we are finally able to see these Doe's get their names back. Grateful for genealogy.

I remember this, excellent work.
Solving these cases is definitely a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[Schiellj]

This Doe was recently added to Barbara Louise Cotton's exclusion list. (Was just searching Barb's name and came across this thread. Thought I'd give it a bump/update).

 

[Schiellj]

This Doe was recently added to Barbara Louise Cotton's exclusion list. (Was just searching Barb's name and came across this thread. Thought I'd give it a bump/update).

Oops. Sorry, for some reason it brought me further back in the comments and I looked, but didn't see this mentioned. I thought it was odd that no one had noticed and shared that yet . I also noticed that Barb is in this Doe's exclusion list 3 times. I've noticed many duplicates recently. This Doe is only listed once on Barb's exclusion list.

 

[carbuff]

Some of the duplicates happen because of the way Namus tags potential matches. If there's a match on demographics, and certain characteristics (like the spinal issues, maybe?), the investigating agency gets a different tag for each one. I don't know the exact process; there may be other things that can happen as well.

 

[Schiellj]

Some of the duplicates happen because of the way Namus tags potential matches. If there's a match on demographics, and certain characteristics (like the spinal issues, maybe?), the investigating agency gets a different tag for each one. I don't know the exact process; there may be other things that can happen as well.

Yeah I'm not sure either. I suppose I expected that if there was a duplicate on a UP's exclusion list, that it would also be present on the corresponding MPs.

 

[carbuff]

I think LE has the option of removing duplicates--but most agencies don't bother, it seems.