CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

[EmiLove832]

I'm way late to the "Serial" party. A friend of mine knows about my WS obsession so she recommended Serial to me.

I agree with other posters regarding SK sounding flirty with Adnan, the more calls they played the more obvious and annoying it became. SK sure seemed to change her speech when she spoke to Adnan. It's almost comical when the clip of the call ends and she goes back to her normal tone.

Any way, I finished the last episode a short while ago, I'm a little disappointed because I was expecting more of a conclusion from SK.

I believe Adnan murdered Hae and I believe Jay minimized his involvement which accounts for his forever changing stories.

Adnan came off so relaxed and ok with being in prison. I guess you would have to adapt but it never felt right to me.

Another thing with him, in one episode there was a long narrative from he and SK about his tendency to over explain things that he knows he is right about. I have someone in my life that does that, it drives me insane and actually makes me feel the person lying. Maybe it's a personal issue for me.

My biggest issue with Adnan is that he did not remember that day. I don't believe that for one minute. Any day that an upsetting or tragic event happens that changes the course of your life, you remember everything. I believe he decided to say it was like any other day, I don't remember so he didn't lock himself into any details that would later be refuted.

I really wish we heard from Stephanie. I feel that she is a key in finding out what actually happened that. She was Jay's girlfriend and Adnan's friend plus she never wanted to speak about what happened to Hae.

I feel that there is a major element missing, someone or something.
Could it be an issue between Jay/Stephanie/Adnan?

Could Adnan have paid Jay for his help?

Did Adnan really threaten Stephanie?

I can't stick to one idea but I do think there is way more than what has been told.




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[circe221]

It was alluded to in the "Crime Writers On Serial" podcast, and something I had never considered before, but has anyone thought that maybe Adnan was trying to set Jay up? Making sure he had the car, the phone, etc.? Maybe something went slightly wrong, throwing off Adnan's planned timeline, or maybe Jay didn't "play along" like he thought he would? Just thinking out loud here.

It's definitely another possibility...

 

[jennapuppy]

I've gone back and forth on this in my mind, but two things I feel fairly sure of - both Adnan and Jay were far more involved than either has admitted, and Jay's involvement was solely at Adnan's request. I think Jay is lucky that he got such a sweet deal in exchange for his testimony against Adnan, but I don't think Adnan has been wrongly convicted. JMO

 

[Tanager]

When I first listened to Serial, I considered the possibility that Adnan hired Jay to kill Hae. It didn't really make sense to me that Jay would talk to the police in that situation, and describe himself at the crime scene, though. That demonstrates a huge lack of self-preservation on his part.

I am now considering how this may have been Adnan's attempt at framing Jay. Adnan is the one who loaned the phone, the car, and he tried to get Jay to touch Hae's body, in addition to involving him in the burial. Sarah K made a frequent point about the contrast between Adnan and Jay, and the fact that Jay was the kind of guy you'd go to for something shady. I think that is the same quality that would make an ideal framee.

Adnan, to my recollection, never expressed anger toward Jay about the crime. If you thought a friend of yours was involved in the murder of your ex, and then implicated you in the crime, wouldn't you be outraged and furious? If Adnan framed Jay, he couldn't really be mad at him, and he'd have a hard time faking anger at the person he set up. Jay sounds mad at Adnan, though.

Adnan's suggestion for Jay to buy a present at the mall seems super fishy to me, too. There is a false sincerity quality to it that I can't quite articulate. It could have been one way to prevent Jay from having a different/stronger alibi during the crime time, and it was also a way to make Adnan sound considerate to the ladies. This goes in the smarmy file for me, as do other Adnan behaviors.

None of this is proper evidence, I understand. I just want to look at the possibilities.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I've gone back and forth on this in my mind, but two things I feel fairly sure of - both Adnan and Jay were far more involved than either has admitted, and Jay's involvement was solely at Adnan's request. I think Jay is lucky that he got such a sweet deal in exchange for his testimony against Adnan, but I don't think Adnan has been wrongly convicted. JMO

Yes, I agree with that. Adnan can't call Jay out on any of his inconsistencies or tell people his actual involvement because Adnan's position is he knows nothing at all, whereas Jay's story changes to either admit or deny more culpability depending on what has suited his ends at the time, and he can because he has admitted partial involvement.

 

[circe221]

Adnan's suggestion for Jay to buy a present at the mall seems super fishy to me, too. There is a false sincerity quality to it that I can't quite articulate. It could have been one way to prevent Jay from having a different/stronger alibi during the crime time, and it was also a way to make Adnan sound considerate to the ladies. This goes in the smarmy file for me, as do other Adnan behaviors.

I felt the exact same way, but you articulated it much better than I could have.
There was something "off" about the whole story about him trying to get Jay to buy Stephanie a gift, it was just odd, and didn't seem like typical teenage boy behavior to me.

 

[Auburnlucky7]

This story has been told two different ways so who is to say that Adnan's suggestion that Jay buy a present is the true version or not. I don't believe Jay and I don't believe Adnan. No one will ever know what really happened. The two of them are in this together. I still stand by my opinion, however, that Adnan did not get a fair trial. I also believe Jay should be sitting in a cell next to Adnan.

 

[Jessen]

breaking:


Justin George@justingeorge · Adnan Syed's lawyer filed a supplement in his appeal case. Asia McClain, key alibi witness, says she wants to testify on his behalf #serial


Justin George@justingeorge McClain, classmate of Adnan Syed and victim Hae Lee, said she realized just how important she was to Syed's case after listening to @serial


Justin George@justingeorge She also said a prosecutor persuaded her not to testify in a post-conviction hearing a few years ago. #serial
https://twitter.com/justingeorge/with_replies

Story forthcoming.

 

[EmiLove832]

I'm afraid Adnan will get a new trial and walk. [emoji19]


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[circe221]

I'm afraid Adnan will get a new trial and walk. [emoji19]


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I hope not but I am afraid you may be right.
Unfortunately, we know that sometimes guilty people literally get away with murder (see: OJ Simpson).
I am curious as to why Asia suddenly wants to testify on Adnan's behalf.

Anyone with legal expertise - is this alone enough to get an appeal?

 

[Soulmagent]

Has anyone read the transcripts ? Or is that just me? I cant be the only one here ..Fess up!!

 

[Gardenlady]

I have read them. I'm not sure I believe Asia (her original letters to me always sounded like an overeager kid trying to involve themselves), but assuming what she said is true, it could be grounds for a retrial, but does not exonerate Adnan.

At the very least I am guessing Urick wishes he took notes of his conversation with Asia :crazy:


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[circe221]

I agree that Asia's letters sounded "off". She still may be just doing this to involve herself. I find it suspect that if she was so adamant that she saw Adnan that day that she hadn't come forward sooner.

Hopefully Urick has some sort of record of his contacts with Asia.

 

[Auburnlucky7]

Still trying to work my way through transcripts. I also want to read Susan Simpson's blogs on this as well. As for Asia, I'm not sure how I interpret her affidavits but I don't think Adnan's appeal attorney would risk filing something that alleges unethical/misconduct of the States Attorney if it were completely false or made up. JMO. Maybe Asia's letter seem off because they were written by a 17 year old kid over 15 years ago and now we read them from an adult perspective without taking that into account. Again, jmo.

 

[kemo]

Asia, as an alibi witness is potentially useful to. Adnan only in undermining the "2:36" time of death theory. It is safe to say that whatever happened to Hae happened between 2:15 and 3:15 but there reason that I can see that Hae didn't run some sort of chore first before picking Adnan up at the Library. We really don't know where either of them went or what they did after school got off at 2:15. Filling in the first 15 or 20 minutes doesn't solve the problem.

 

[mrssunshine]

I don't think her affidavit is going to do a thing. Her letters back in 1999 were written by a teenager who had just come from his parents house offering to help him fill in from 2:15 to 8. She already knew the timeline. She claims the defense didn't contact her. Well maybe they had a reason not too?
Then she says 10 years later the Defense team called about his appeal. She declined to talk to them. So she (on her own accord) called the prosecutor, who told her he felt it was a strong case and fair trial. (no problem there)
Next serial podcast Sarah contacts her and she gives her impromptu interview. She claims she was confused about the interview and declined to talk to Koenig again. Then she heard the podcast and felt compelled to contact Adnan's attorney and offer her story.

So basically, I don't see this as anything that would help an appeal. She is providing no new evidence. Nothing that was withheld from the defense. It's a he said/she said about her discussion with the prosecutor but that was for the appeal and has no effect on the verdict.

 

[ellabella]

I wonder who else is feeling the same way I am?

That while I actually do believe that Adnan was involved or killed Hae, that there is no way he should have beenconvicted based on the evidence/trial that was held.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Asia, as an alibi witness is potentially useful to. Adnan only in undermining the "2:36" time of death theory. It is safe to say that whatever happened to Hae happened between 2:15 and 3:15 but there reason that I can see that Hae didn't run some sort of chore first before picking Adnan up at the Library. We really don't know where either of them went or what they did after school got off at 2:15. Filling in the first 15 or 20 minutes doesn't solve the problem.

It does when the entire prosecution is based upon Hae being dead by 2:36 pm.

 

[circe221]

How did they arrive at such a precise time of death?

 

[Auburnlucky7]

How did they arrive at such a precise time of death?

Check the Serial podcast transcripts. I believe the State arrived at the time of death using the cell phone records and one of Jay's many versions of the events. The ME was not able to give a time of death due to the condition of Hae's remains.