Deceased/Not Found MD - Sarah, 3, & Jacob Hoggle, 2, Clarksburg, 9 Sept 2014 *Arrest*

[lindamichelle1]

I think it would be more likely if the kids were taken at the same time. but the way she took them one by one is what is making me lean towards they are no longer alive.

 

[elfie]

Where are you little ones? Valentine's Day has come and gone now. Hope you will be found soon. Such a heartbreak. :heartluv:

 

[JRW]

Its been 6 months now =(

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Father of 2 Missing Toddlers Continues Search

It has been six months since two Montgomery County toddlers, brother and sister Sarah and Jacob Hoggle, were last seen alive.

[snip]

Their mother Catherine Hoggle remains in a mental facility and is suspected in their disappearance, but she has remained silent and is unwilling to say what she did with the children.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015...ng-toddlers-continues-search-with-volunteers/



Six months since the disappearance of Sarah and Jacob Hoggle

[snip]

Montgomery County Police have been very clear they are investigating this case as a homicide. But the children's father - Troy Turner and his family remain convinced these two children are alive. "It's definitely harder day by day. I miss them more," Turner said Sunday.

At one point last fall Hoggle offered to take investigators to the children, but a judge blocked the idea saying she isn't mentally competent. Turner says - when he has talked with her on the phone - she insists the children are alive. and he believes her.

More: http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/28294220/six-months-since-the-disappearance-of-sarah-and-jacob-hoggle

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...oggle-children-missing-for-6-months/24594715/

 

[mayelf]

This has to be one of the saddest cases I have ever read. Heart-breaking for the family involved. I also found a few comments in the thread a bit disturbing on how people view people with mental illness. Even though she was having psychotic episodes, I do believe that she had the capacity to think through plans, at least to some extent. She isn't "crazy," she is experiencing a very specific diagnosis. She may not have even had a plan at all, but after-the-fact of pulling something together it feels like from the outside-looking-in that she did. For instance, imagine that you are convinced your child is going to die if you don't do something to save them. You take off and hide the child in a location that you believe is safe (another websleuther mentioned that hiding underwater could be a place of safety for someone with this type of diagnosis). Feeling relieved you go on your way and then realize you have to protect another one of your children. You take them and hide them as well. For some reason, I think the places she hid them would be similar to her own hiding place, but if that was the case I guess they would be located by now. Anyways after hiding them, she hid herself. She probably saw the poster which made her more worried and frightened for her children and herself. I wonder if she could have gone back to check on them? I don't know what it is like to experience this diagnosis as some of you have bravely shared your experience, but from my imagination it isn't anything like we imagine. I am just thinking of past cases where it looked planned and later we found out it was just how the pieces ended up lying. She may still feel like she is protecting them by not releasing the location. I doubt this was a parent gets angry, snaps, and kills their child type of a situation, especially because it was two children at two different times. It really does sound diagnosis related. I also believe that cases like this are rare enough that there isn't the need to take children away from parents just because they have a mental illness. I think it just sounds scary that things can happen like this, but at the same time there are parents without mental disorders that do snap and kill their children. Anyways I wish the best to the family members on healing and trying to find answers. It is tragic all around. Btw - this is just my opinion. I have no real idea about anything, but these are my honest thoughts as I read the thread. I skipped part of the thread so I'm sorry if I am just repeating the same ol' thing.

:couch:

 

[sreshowtime]

poor babes, hopefully with spring coming they will be discovered

 

[mikkismom]

Search resumes for missing Hoggle children

http://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2015/04/search-resumes-for-missing-hoggle-children/slide/1/

 

[Jan]

I know a lot of people will disagree with this, but I wish all newborns could be fitted with a GPS type chip that would allow them to be found if they go missing. Maybe a tiny chip could be implanted in the baby's foot out of sight. I know I microchip all my dogs besides making them wear ID tags. Even for dogs, you can buy a GPS thing that lets you get on your computer and locate where your dog is. It shows where the dog is--on or off your property--and you can follow where it is going so you know where to go to catch it. It's expensive but handy when needed. Some people in my dog training groups have those on their dogs, especially for hunting and tracking dogs or ones whose owners have a lot of land and no fence. If a person is doing no wrong, I don't see where it would bother them to have a chip in them. I wouldn't mind having one in case I ever came up missing so someone could find me right away. To me, it would be a safety feature and not an invasion of privacy. It would need a password or some provision that would keep the wrong people from tracking someone though. And maybe the option of having it removed at adulthood if the person wanted to.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Police said they searched Sunday in the upper-county areas of Darnestown, Boyds and Clarksburg. Although nothing of significance was found by searchers from Montgomery and elsewhere, police said, county police will continue to search.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...44fcf6-e6e4-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html

 

[Schmaley]

I know a lot of people will disagree with this, but I wish all newborns could be fitted with a GPS type chip that would allow them to be found if they go missing. Maybe a tiny chip could be implanted in the baby's foot out of sight. I know I microchip all my dogs besides making them wear ID tags. Even for dogs, you can buy a GPS thing that lets you get on your computer and locate where your dog is. It shows where the dog is--on or off your property--and you can follow where it is going so you know where to go to catch it. It's expensive but handy when needed. Some people in my dog training groups have those on their dogs, especially for hunting and tracking dogs or ones whose owners have a lot of land and no fence. If a person is doing no wrong, I don't see where it would bother them to have a chip in them. I wouldn't mind having one in case I ever came up missing so someone could find me right away. To me, it would be a safety feature and not an invasion of privacy. It would need a password or some provision that would keep the wrong people from tracking someone though. And maybe the option of having it removed at adulthood if the person wanted to.

I dont think anyone who steal or harm or hide a child would think twice about removing an implanted gps.

 

[pappa rob]

A GPS unit for dogs as far as I know aren't traceable. You have to scan from a hand held unit for it to track. A GPS takes a large battery and would be a pain to wear.
http://www.vetinfo.com/gps-dog-chips.html

 

[GGE]

Wow I just spent my evening reading this entire thread. I don't have much to offer just now except an alternative theory as to why she only took the younger ones... and I base this on one of my close friends developing paranoid schizophrenia during the years I knew him, before my eyes basically, which was just so difficult to deal with.. because what do you say to someone who thinks the pills are the government trying to control their thoughts (who he also feels can hear his thoughts)? How do you convince them that they need those pills? *sigh*.. anyway... maybe she felt it was too late to "save" the older one because that child had already started school, which my friend felt was the start of the systematic programming of children by the government (which he felt included subliminal messages in tv and radio, etc etc)...

ETA - "saving" to him would be off the grid living more than anything else FWIW..because his particular "brand" of paranoia was that the gov't was controlling/reading his mind using technology and meds.I wonder what her type of paranoia revolves around?

 

[GGE]

I've been thinking about this case all night and into this morning. I do feel that the children are no longer with us unfortunately. I find myself thinking about statistics that show that when a mother has killed her children she tends to bury them as opposed to any other means of disposal, and she tends to do so along with a blanket or other favorite toy or belonging. She tends to do this at a location where she can perhaps someday come back to visit them without it seeming completely out of place (so a public area or family owned property would be more likely than a river/fire/dumpster/private farm field/etc) - again just going by known statistics. Yes, schizophrenia changes "normal" behavior but having nothing else to go on, it would be smart, IMO, to begin with known profiling statistics.

I suppose if this happened in my own town I'd be asking myself where she could dig into the ground at the time of year they went missing without being seen during the evening and daytime hours each child went missing. If I couldn't come up with anyplace due to the ground being too hard this time of year or too much visibility or something, I would then ask myself where else their bodies could be placed that is revisitable in the future yet would mask the odor of decomp. Are there any landfills with publicly accessible lands surrounding them?

 

[GGE]

http://patch.com/maryland/northpoto...hildren-seeks-become-guardian-troubled-mother

"The father of two Montgomery County siblings missing for seven months has taken court action to become the legal guardian of their mentally ill mother, also his long-time domestic partner, who was the last person to see the children."

<snip>

"According to court records, Lindsey Hoggle has agreed to the appointment of Turner as her daughter&#8217;s guardian."

<snip>

"Turner alleges in court documents that hospital officials have refused to provide information to him about Hoggle&#8217;s condition and treatment. He also says staff at the facility has refused to permit him or other family members to visit Hoggle."

<snip>

"David Felsen -- Hoggle&#8217;s attorney in the criminal case against her for child neglect, abduction and hindering a police investigation -- questioned Turner&#8217;s move.

In court papers Felsen wrote, &#8220;The petitioner&#8217;s filings are a thinly veiled attempt to do an &#8220;end run&#8221; around the determinations of the District Court, to inject himself (and others) into the treatment and care of Ms. Hoggle and to obtain information to which Petitioner is not entitled and that could be at odds with Ms. Hoggle&#8217;s interests.&#8221; "

more at link

 

[Schmaley]

Maybe by becoming her guardian he is hoping to obtain trust from hoggle and then information on the whereabouts of his kids

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

This has to be one of the saddest cases I have ever read. Heart-breaking for the family involved. I also found a few comments in the thread a bit disturbing on how people view people with mental illness. Even though she was having psychotic episodes, I do believe that she had the capacity to think through plans, at least to some extent. She isn't "crazy," she is experiencing a very specific diagnosis. She may not have even had a plan at all, but after-the-fact of pulling something together it feels like from the outside-looking-in that she did. For instance, imagine that you are convinced your child is going to die if you don't do something to save them. You take off and hide the child in a location that you believe is safe (another websleuther mentioned that hiding underwater could be a place of safety for someone with this type of diagnosis). Feeling relieved you go on your way and then realize you have to protect another one of your children. You take them and hide them as well. For some reason, I think the places she hid them would be similar to her own hiding place, but if that was the case I guess they would be located by now. Anyways after hiding them, she hid herself. She probably saw the poster which made her more worried and frightened for her children and herself. I wonder if she could have gone back to check on them? I don't know what it is like to experience this diagnosis as some of you have bravely shared your experience, but from my imagination it isn't anything like we imagine. I am just thinking of past cases where it looked planned and later we found out it was just how the pieces ended up lying. She may still feel like she is protecting them by not releasing the location. I doubt this was a parent gets angry, snaps, and kills their child type of a situation, especially because it was two children at two different times. It really does sound diagnosis related. I also believe that cases like this are rare enough that there isn't the need to take children away from parents just because they have a mental illness. I think it just sounds scary that things can happen like this, but at the same time there are parents without mental disorders that do snap and kill their children. Anyways I wish the best to the family members on healing and trying to find answers. It is tragic all around. Btw - this is just my opinion. I have no real idea about anything, but these are my honest thoughts as I read the thread. I skipped part of the thread so I'm sorry if I am just repeating the same ol' thing.

:couch:

Jmo, I agree. Many posts ago I said I think that this case doesn't have a bad guy, just a lot of suffering and heartache all around, and I still believe that.

 

[JerseyGirl]

She appeared in front of a judge Thursday for the first time since November. Records from Perkins Hospital Center reveal Hoggle is still mentally incompetent, but her condition is improving.

A Montgomery County judge said Thursday that he would immediately order a trial if he receives a report stating she is competent.

Prosecutor John McCarthy said if Hoggle is determined to be competent in the future, he will look into bringing additional charges, and would use a grand jury as an investigative tool to determine what those charges would be.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...-Hearing-Incompetent-Improving-301827271.html

 

[blefuscu]

I don't think she's evil or "crazy", she's obviously unwell. I feel sorry for all involved.

 

[los2188]

Family: Missing Hoggle Kids Reported Near Virginia Mall

 

[mrsobrien]

I'm getting impatient with this case... I am empathetic and all, but with some anger on the fringes.