ME ME - Ayla Reynolds, 20 mnths, Waterville, 17 December 2011 - # 6

[tlcya]

Do we know the type of break or fracture Ayla suffered from? TIA

 

[Whisperer]

All parents who love their children will call 911 if there child has been in an accident. To not call 911 on an accident and the child dies, encompasses negligent homicide imo. If a child was injured in an accident, you don't roll them up an put them in a container and say somebody abducted them.

There is some crazy #$# going on in this country.

 

[Whisperer]

Do we know the type of break or fracture Ayla suffered from? TIA

AFAIK, babies' bones are very soft and hard to break. IMO, something terribly heavy/solid had to be slammed on her arm.

 

[DairyGirl]

MY son broke his arm when he was 3 and a half. We went to the ER and we were flagged by a rep from social services and we were interrogated,separately, in another room. Broken arms are a big red flag for child abuse. But like you said, it matters HOW the break appears to have happened. Our son's break was not a rotated or twisted fracture, which would be evidence of someone pulling him by the arms. Or assaulting him and twisting. He fell forward on top of the coffee table while jumping from the couch, so the break was consistent with our story and HIS story, because he was very verbal.

Toddlers have fractured wrists quite often because the wrists are still growing and are not yet fused. So a simple fall can easily result in a fractured wrist. But a broken arm, that is a different matter, and can be a red flag.

ETA: We did not wait 24 hours to take him to the ER. We went immediately.

My son started walking by himself at 7 months old. Of course at that age he had no judgement and wound up falling on the kitchen floor. He didn't really cry much so I didn't give it much thought until the next day when my friend's little girl was playing with him and commented that it seemed to hurt him to move his arm.
I called the doctor and made an appointment to have it checked because it didn't seem like an emergency and the doctor had it x rayed and sure enough it was broken. He explained that babies bones are so soft that they bend rather then break. He didn't even have a cast but I was so worried about Children's services being called since it was the day after it happened and I didn't know it was broken.
On the other hand my daughter has had 3 broken arms. I am sure Children's services would have been called but she wasn't with me any of the times. Twice it was at school (I should have called Children's Services on them) and once it was at a skating rink.

 

[katydid23]

AFAIK, babies' bones are very soft and hard to break. IMO, something terribly heavy/solid had to be slammed on her arm.

But it is consistent with her dad's story too. He fell on her, which would be something heavy landing on top of her arm. If he had yanked her arm in anger, it would have looked different than the kind of injury he describes. And the ER docs are careful when questioning parents when they see that kind of a break.

 

[tlcya]

As katydid mentioned spiral fractures are dead giveaways for possible abuse as they could indicate a purposeful twisting of the arm.

It is awful some of the stuff I am reading. Some people just really suck ya know?

ETA I do not think Ayla suffered from a spiral fracture as it would have raisd a huge red flag at the ER. Although, with rumors about undue influence with DHS. . . I gues I can't know for sure.

 

[deoneta]

While under normal circumstances, of course parents would report an accident, I think some of tend to forget that many of the situations encoutered here on WS are not "normal", at least not in the way we think. It appears Ayla was conceived either in carelessness or at the very least, without a lot of thought about preparing for her future, i.e. a safe place to live, resources to take care of a child, a committed partner, a sober mom, etc...that said, I can see how a parent who has a child with a broken arm that may have raised eyebrows, at least initially, might not be in a hurry to call 911 if the child has another accident of some kind. Children can have head injuries, for example, and seem okay and then hours later be dead. JMO of course, but it could explain a hasty midnight exit from the home later that evening...

I have feared from the first that this might be a situation where an inexperienced father, one who was used to the women in the household providing most of the childcare, a father who had a temper and didn't understand that toddlers don't "listen" might have harmed the child. I think it could have been "accidental" in that the intention was never to kill, but with the recent broken arm and the bruising, it was decided to claim abduction. I don't really understand how those present could cover it up, but it's happened in other cases. All my speculation and MOO.

 

[TxLady2]

MY husband cuts himself shaving occasionally, but it never leaves blood on the walls or the floor or anything at all like that. My son used to have really bad nosebleeds when he was younger, but it rarely made any messes. Only once when it happened while he was going to sleep.

My toddlers used to bleed occasionally though. They had skinned knees and scrapes and cuts and my son used to have a knack for finding sharp things to pick up. But I don't think there was ever anything that would be picked up by luminol.

Oh, we bleed frequently around my house. My husband does woodworking as a hobby and also does a lot of other stuff using tools of all kinds. And I'm just clumsy. I've had some pretty bad cuts from kitchen knives, or broken glass.
If I'm not mistaken, luminol will show mere drops of blood.

 

[katydid23]

As katydid mentioned spiral fractures are dead giveaways for possible abuse as they could indicate a purposeful twisting of the arm.

It is awful some of the stuff I am reading. Some people just really suck ya know?

ETA I do not think Ayla suffered from a spiral fracture as it would have raisd a huge red flag at the ER. Although, with rumors about undue influence with DHS. . . I gues I can't know for sure.

I don't believe it was a spiral fracture because she did not have a hard cast. My son had a spiral fracture when he was in high school from slipping on a wet gym floor. { On a rainy day the PE teacher was having them run laps backwards. ]

Anyway, he had a full cast for 8 weeks. When he had the other broken arm, which was not a rotated or twisted injury, he had a soft cast, like Ayla had,

 

[hambirg]

All parents who love their children will call 911 if there child has been in an accident. To not call 911 on an accident and the child dies, encompasses negligent homicide imo. If a child was injured in an accident, you don't roll them up an put them in a container and say somebody abducted them.

There is some crazy #$# going on in this country.

I agree. And I think this baby gate is just like the "pool ladder." I don't believe that Ayla fell down the stairs. It doesn't make any sense to me. If your child had an accident, no matter the situation, a loving parent would call 911. MOO

One more thing. . .the gf is in Florida? If I was her, I would be running as fast as a I could to the Waterville police department!

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder if LE read here yesterday and saw that we felt the case was kind of fading away, lol, and decided to give us something new...

 

[TxLady2]

Sadly I think that even if they prove it is Ayla's blood, they do not have enough to arrest anyone. I fear that without a body (and maybe even with a body), someone is going to walk away free from this. If a cadaver dog hit at the Irwins couldn't get an arrest, then neither will blood evidence at the DiPietro's.

As a sidenote, I read somewhere that Courtney is in Florida vacationing and trying to get in some additional classes to help get into her master's program.

I disagree. Actual blood evidence... if there is a lot of it, and if it is proven to be Ayla's blood, is a LOT more reliable than one hit by a cadaver dog. The problem is they have to be able to prove who did it.

Cadaver dogs can be a big help, but knowing that they also hit on things other than dead bodies, and since it did not lead to FINDING a dead body, well... that is not substantial enough to get a warrant for an arrest.
Sorry.

 

[cluciano63]

I agree. And I think this baby gate is just like the "pool ladder." I don't believe that Ayla fell down the stairs. It doesn't make any sense to me. If your child had an accident, no matter the situation, a loving parent would call 911. MOO

One more thing. . .the gf is in Florida? If I was her, I would be running as fast as a I could to the Waterville police department!

Yes, a "loving" parent would, but not all parents are "loving" or there would not be as many murders of children as there is. Or perhaps, as many missing children. JMO
Some people worry more about themselves than the victim; I can see certain mentalities deciding that if there is nothing to be done for the victim, why put themselves in possible (legal) harm's way?

 

[tlcya]

I wonder if LE read here yesterday and saw that we felt the case was kind of fading away, lol, and decided to give us something new...

I sure would like to think so, lol, but I don' t

 

[katydid23]

Speaking of cadaver dog hits, did they ever bring them into this home?

 

[ynotdivein]

Blood found in missing toddler's home
by Amy Calder, KJ staff writer

Nothing much new, but this quote. Also McCausland saying the adults' story "doesn't pass the straight-face test.":

' “There were three adults in the home, and their version of events is not backed up by any forensic evidence that we have located,” McCausland said Saturday, after the vigil had ended.'

(ETA: Photos from vigil below story too.)

 

[deoneta]

Speaking of cadaver dog hits, did they ever bring them into this home?

The only mention of the use of cadaver dogs I saw was in the early searching. If cadaver dogs were used inside the house, I haven't been able to find any reference in media reports. All MOO.

 

[Lera213]

MOO ... one of the first things I thought of is they are SCARED of Justin ...

JMO ... but from "little info" we have, I will NOT be surprised to learn in the future about a "temper" or "anger" problem ...

That comment from Phoebe DiPietro "said it all " -- the comment about Justin and his "friends" going "kicking in doors" ...

Phoebe has obviously "witnessed" this "type of behavior" by Justin ... otherwise -- she would NOT have said that -- especially when her answer was in "response" to a question about Ayla ...

MOO ...

Not only all those things you mentioned but also if they had a hand in the cover up they will be charged to was what JD and Mommy told them all.

 

[naturallyme]

I agree. And I think this baby gate is just like the "pool ladder." I don't believe that Ayla fell down the stairs. It doesn't make any sense to me. If your child had an accident, no matter the situation, a loving parent would call 911. MOO

One more thing. . .the gf is in Florida? If I was her, I would be running as fast as a I could to the Waterville police department!

I highlighted the word loving in your post.

I agree a loving parent would call 911, but would a parent who did not want the child in the first place, and didn't want to pay child support?

 

[huckleberryhound]

One scenario where all the adults could be complicit in her death is if she was injured
much earlier than when she was reported missing and none of them took her to a doctor.
Just like when she broke her arm, they may have waited, hoping she would get better,
and they wouldnt have to try to explain her injuries, but she didnt get better, and
they know they'll all be held accountable for not getting her medical help when they
knew she was hurt.