Identified! ME - Jonesport, Wht/OtherMale 60-65, UP15307, in ocean, clothes, watch, Jul'00 - Philip Kahn

[iamshadow21]

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Rest in peace, Philip.

Wednesday, the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME) announced that the remains have been identified as those of Philip Kahn. He was 84 years old when he left Las Vegas, Nevada, and landed in New York City in July of 2000. It was not clear why or how Kahn ended up off the coast of Maine.

The resemblance with that recon where he's smiling is really strong. Great work.

Sleep well, Philip.

 

[Alleykins]

The resemblance with that recon where he's smiling is really strong. Great work.

Sleep well, Philip.

I see a big resemblance to the smiling recon, too. The Kevin Spacey looking one, not so much.

 

[iamshadow21]

I see a big resemblance to the smiling recon, too. The Kevin Spacey looking one, not so much.

That other one has the Snapshot logo, so it would have been developed from his DNA, rather than postmortem photographs or the topography of his skull like a human-made recon. Some Snapshot recons turn out closer to the person than others. This one, they would have 'aged up' as most of the ones I've seen look 20-35, even when they estimate the Doe is ten years older. There was one I saw on a recently IDed Jane Doe that was uncannily close, it literally looked like a photograph of her. Others aren't as close, or actually can look dissimilar.

Like any recon, it's never going to be univerally accurate, because any recon is using averages, whether you're using a pencil, clay, digital art or photomanipulation, or a fancy algothithim. Averages don't allow for uniqueness, and so much of how our faces turn out is based on what happens after conception. A program can't predict a harelip, a birthmark, a scar, an asymmetrical smile, a nervous tic. We move our faces in a pattern unique to us throughout our lives, so the lines and creases we get settle into our faces in ways as individual as a fingerprint. That's not DNA, that's our emotion, our joy, our sadness, our expressions. DNA can dictate the shape of our faces, but not how we 'wear' them.

Also, Snapshot images always look slightly uncanny to me because they're symmetrical, and human faces never are, so it really looks like it came out of a computer. And that's fine! But it doesn't read as 'human' to me the same way a slightly impressionistic pencil drawing can. And some of that is emotional resonance to the medium, but it's more than that. A likeness doesn't equal a subject looking lifelike, and that's more a subject for artists than crime buffs. They've been arguing about it for centuries. I'm sure they'll let us know when they all agree on it.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

https://www.facebook.com/2011009255824516/posts/3359532444305517

 

[sorcoy14]

Welcome home Philip. May your memory be a blessing.

 

[Derr Schnerr]

The first reports said a "floating skeleton was found"?

But if there was enough tissue for fingerprints, then he was hardly skeletonized, especially since skeletons do not float.

They also listed the clothing he was wearing:

• A blue long-sleeved collared knit shirt.
• A Rearguard brand pullover with three buttons in front (size XL)
• A Chereskin brand white V-neck t-shirt (size XL)
• Two pairs of white tube socks.
• A white-metal Casio digital watch on his left wrist.

It's July. He flies from Vegas to NYC. He's found in the Atlantic, in July, wearing two pairs of socks, a pullover and no pants?

I'm guessing he's was on a boat, urinating, falls overboard. Why didn't anyone report him overboard? Sketchy

 

[DS2021]

I have potentially found more about him. I have found a Philip Kahn born October 6th 1915. (Same birthdate listed on the family search record I posted upthread) born in Manhattan New York. He registered for the draft on Oct 16th, 1940 in Miami Beach, Florida. He listed himself as a white male, roughly 6 foot 4, 170 pounds, with brown eyes, brown hair and a light brown complexion. According to this record he was employed by the Miami Herald. He lists a friend with the initials of SK as next of kin, both men appeared to live together in miami beach

Edit to fix spelling

 

[Susikatze]

So, just read that Kahn is a germanized version of the Jewish family name Cohen.

Usually it is.most Kahns are also Cohanim, but not all.

 

[DS2021]

The first reports said a "floating skeleton was found"?

He was partially skeletal. That statement was not correct.

in July, wearing two pairs of socks, a pullover and no pants?

I think it's likely he was spending time on the coast so he was bundled up. My assumption has always been that his pants got caught on something post mortem and were pulled off.

 

[Susikatze]

I have potentially found more about him. I have found a Philip Khan born October 6th 1915. (Same birthdate listed on the family search record I posted upthread) born in Manhattan New York. He registered for the draft on Oct 16th, 1940 in Miami Beach, Florida. He listed himself as a white male, roughly 6 foot 4, 170 pounds, with brown eyes, brown hair and a light brown complexion. According to this record he was employed by the Miami Herald. He lists a friend with the initials of SK as next of kin, both men appeared to live together in miami beach

Khan is very different from Kahn. Khan is a Muslim surname, usually Pakistani or similar geography. I do not think it is the same person.

 

[Susikatze]

I do not think so. One of my cousins thought there was a suicide note. I don't know how his disappearance was treated at the time. I've never found him on any LE lists of missing persons, or been able to research the situation in detail. Among relatives I knew, there was a reluctance to discuss the man, and as a result, I did not think I had enough information to proceed further. I think there were behavioral episodes that alienated family members. In particular, I don’t know if the time frame of his disappearance fits well enough with the Jonesport John Doe.

Did Philip turn out to be your missing relative?

 

[Susikatze]

I am very very happy to see Phil have his name back.
Baruch dayan haemes. Say his name. You are not forgotten, Philip Kahn!

 

[Susikatze]

Not IDd by genealogy, so it is not a breakthrough there for Ashkenazi Does, but I am still very happy to see him come home.

 

[DS2021]

Khan is very different from Kahn. Khan is a Muslim surname, usually Pakistani or similar geography. I do not think it is the same person

This persons last name was Kahn. I made a typo

 

[DS2021]

I reached out to OCME to ask if Phil's case was still open, and if so who was handling it. OCME has closed their case and they arent aware of any ongoing investigation.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? Should we reach out to Nevada LE to confirm this? If the case is closed should we push for them to label it as an undetermined death? I'm not saying foul play is involved in this case but based off the information provided I just dont think theres enough evidence to prove theres not.

 

[Friday Fan]

I've definitely known a few Ashkenazi Jewish Kahns.

Actress Madeline Kahn (Blazing Saddles, Young Frankenstein)

 

[Hochman]

Side by side w/ recons

 

[Warwick1991]

Did Philip turn out to be your missing relative?

No. Still a mystery.

 

[Susikatze]

I reached out to OCME to ask if Phil's case was still open, and if so who was handling it. OCME has closed their case and they arent aware of any ongoing investigation.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? Should we reach out to Nevada LE to confirm this? If the case is closed should we push for them to label it as an undetermined death? I'm not saying foul play is involved in this case but based off the information provided I just dont think theres enough evidence to prove theres not.

Id definitely try. Foul play is not likely but on the other hand it is possible. We have zero evidence of how he got into the water.
Id also like to know more. Did he have surviving family? What about the person he was living with? Was there anybody who missed him?

 

[Warwick1991]

He was partially skeletal. That statement was not correct.

I think it's likely he was spending time on the coast so he was bundled up. My assumption has always been that his pants got caught on something post mortem and were pulled off.

Since Philip was identified using fingerprints and dental records, his body was relatively intact, although the sea causes rapid deterioration of bodies. I agree that he must have been spending time on the coast - probably the coast of Maine considering the condition of his body. He probably was not sailing alone.