Measles: To Disneyland and Beyond

[MyBelle]

I guess the AMA will have to change it's position



http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/phy...l-ethics/code-medical-ethics/opinion9133.page

No physician is required to agree with the AMA's position on anything. It's a voluntary organization not a licensing body.

 

[Charlie09]

No physician is required to agree with the AMA's position on anything. It's a voluntary organization not a licensing body.

Keep dancin' to that tune!

 

[bluesneakers]

I can't see a reason I would vaccinate for anything outside of Tetanus - we'd work on immunity issues on a different level than more chemicals.

Thank you for answering.

 

[K_Z]

I'm sure it comes as a surprise to you that not all pediatricians are pro-vaccination -
Dr. Bob Sears is a big one here in South Orange County -
And Dr. Jay Gordon of UCLA -

SO I guess, I would stay with a parent friendly doctor - not one who wants to violate medical ethics in their practice.

Surely you're not saying a doctor who recommends childhood vaccinations is "violating medical ethics", and not "parent friendly"?! Good heavens! That's really outrageous, even if you personally refuse vaccinations. These doctors are considered to be outliers, and extremists within their own profession. Most docs consider them highly irresponsible and unethical to encourage parents not to vaccinate. Wow.

 

[MyBelle]

Great question, bluesneakers. A lot of families that refuse vaccines also refuse lifesaving medications and therapies like chemotherapy for highly curable cancers (like Hodgkins Lymphoma-- several of those lately).

I'm guessing that the recommendation for chemotherapy for the sick child would be met with some serious resistance, not that the other children would be vaccinated to protect the sick child while undergoing chemo. There are a number of these "chemo refusal" stories about in the news in the past few years, and typically the courts must step in and take custody of the child to ensure lifesaving treatment is provided. There is just no amount of science or reasoning that will persuade some of the frightened, stubborn, and ignorant parents from making disastrous decisions for their kids. It's sad and pretty frustrating.

BBM. Unfortunately, it is impossible to legislate intelligence or even common sense.

 

[bluesneakers]

Great question, bluesneakers. A lot of families that refuse vaccines also refuse lifesaving medications and therapies like chemotherapy for highly curable cancers (like Hodgkins Lymphoma-- several of those lately).

I'm guessing that the recommendation for chemotherapy for the sick child would be met with some serious resistance, not that the other children would be vaccinated to protect the sick child while undergoing chemo. There are a number of these "chemo refusal" stories about in the news in the past few years, and typically the courts must step in and take custody of the child to ensure lifesaving treatment is provided. There is just no amount of science or reasoning that will persuade some of the frightened, stubborn, and ignorant parents from making disastrous decisions for their kids. It's sad and pretty frustrating.

I think you're correct.

I've seen these cases in the news, as well as cases involving parents taking their children to other countries for treatments that aren't available in their own. And I think one case involved a family escaping to Mexico to avoid chemotherapy.

 

[MyBelle]

Surely you're not saying a doctor who recommends childhood vaccinations is "violating medical ethics", and not "parent friendly"?! Good heavens! That's really outrageous, even if you personally refuse vaccinations. These doctors are considered to be outliers, and extremists within their own profession. Most docs consider them highly irresponsible and unethical to encourage parents not to vaccinate. Wow.

Here's an interesting opinion piece by a reporter who apparently Dr. Gordon doesn't like:

Formaldehyde? Aluminum? Oh, my God! Toxins! I can’t believe a physician is parroting the “toxin” gambit about vaccines. That’s the single most idiotic and scientifically ignorant rhetorical gambit antivaccinationists use, and Dr. Gordon apparently buys into it. Did Dr. Gordon skip pharmacology class in medical school?


http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/07/19/dr-jay-gordon-pediatrician-to-the-stars/

 

[Charlie09]

Here's an interesting study about the "studies" of vaccine safety

The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following immunisation with the MMR vaccine cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22336803

 

[MyBelle]

Here's an interesting study about the "studies" of vaccine safety







http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22336803

A study written three years ago really is about as useless as Jenny McCarthy was to The View.

JMO

 

[Charlie09]

A study written three years ago really is about as useless as Jenny McCarthy was to The View.

JMO

So the safety studies you recommend are from when?

 

[Charlie09]

Surely you're not saying a doctor who recommends childhood vaccinations is "violating medical ethics", and not "parent friendly"?! Good heavens! That's really outrageous, even if you personally refuse vaccinations. These doctors are considered to be outliers, and extremists within their own profession. Most docs consider them highly irresponsible and unethical to encourage parents not to vaccinate. Wow.

In context of the complete conversation that is not what was said.

 

[WideOpen]

I want to thank those of you eloquently debating this issue.
My daughter is facing harsh and daily attacks from her husbands extended family because she has opted to not vaccinate her son who is 2 1/2. This is a new and recent topic of conversation, since the Disneyland outbreak.

I did not vaccinate my 7 children, they are almost all adults now. This was in the 80s and 90s. While I did not feel threatened from the medical community or schools, it was still quite intimidating. I followed the law, educated myself, and made informed choices for MY children. I was only willing to consider the tetnus vaccine-I did not pressure others to not vaccinate and was able to answer most questions by those who were curious. I believe it is an individual choice which should not be made or taken lightly. I believe in educating yourself, not hard to do in this day and age of the internet where we have much access to the data, studies, and professional opinions. I am shocked to see the hate and fear being projected onto those who choose not to vaccinate, I am glad that I didn't have to be condemned and called out through my FB or other social media. My children are all perfectly healthy, I would say in 25 years I have only seen doctors 10 times or less between all 7 kids. We survived. Will my grandchildren and their parents now be forced into mass vaccination?

I am not going to debate this, just wanted to thank those who are. Thank you.

JMO

 

[Charlie09]

Here's a couple of more interesting items -

Fraud at Merck http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html

Merck Has Some Explaining To Do Over Its MMR Vaccine Claims
Posted: 09/25/2014 5:29 pm EDT Updated: 11/27/2014 5:59 am EST


Merck, the pharmaceutical giant, is facing a slew of controversies over its Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) vaccine following numerous allegations of wrongdoing from different parties in the medical field, including two former Merck scientists-turned-whistleblowers. A third whistleblower, this one a scientist at the Centers for Disease Control, also promises to bring Merck grief following his confession of misconduct involving the same MMR vaccine.

<modsnip>.

So I guess years old reports...do in fact matter today.

 

[Charlie09]

Whether it is intentional or not - by partnering with for profit vaccination makers, by allowing those companies to pay for studies that in effect prove their marketing strategy, the CDC disqualifies itself as impartial and as a safeguard for independent consumer safety.

Our diverse partners understand that linking with CDC through the CDC Foundation can significantly advance public health in this country and worldwide. Often, partners become engaged early on in a project to clearly understand its objectives or participate in the program design. Several partners may jointly fund a program to ensure its successful completion.

hmmm, if I were looking at though cynical eyes, I may interpret that as the government is for sale...just pay for the program to be completed.

AB SCIEX
Abbott Laboratories
Aetna, Inc.
AkzoNobel N.V.
The Allstate Foundation
Amgen Inc.
Analytic Services Inc.
Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield
Applied Biosystems
<modsnip>



http://www.cdcfoundation.org/what/partners#category-299

 

[Charlie09]

They source the C-SPAN hearings that the media blacked out - is C-Span a non trusted site?
And they clearly mention that there is a virtual media black out...

 

[Harmony 2]

Mod note: Copyright rules allow for only 10% of an article to be copied.

 

[Charlie09]

OIG Fugitive: Poul Thorsen
Poul Thorsen

From approximately February 2004 until February 2010, Poul Thorsen executed a scheme to steal grant money awarded by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). CDC had awarded grant money to Denmark for research involving infant disabilities, autism, genetic disorders, and fetal alcohol syndrome. CDC awarded the grant to fund studies of the relationship between autism and the exposure to vaccines, the relationship between cerebral palsy and infection during pregnancy, and the relationship between developmental outcomes and fetal alcohol exposure.
Thorsen worked as a visiting scientist at CDC, Division of Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, before the grant was awarded.
The initial grant was awarded to the Danish Medical Research Council. In approximately 2007, a second grant was awarded to the Danish Agency for Science, Technology, and Innovation. Both agencies are governmental agencies in Denmark. The research was done by the Aarhaus University and Odense University Hospital in Denmark.
Thorsen allegedly diverted over $1 million of the CDC grant money to his own personal bank account. Thorsen submitted fraudulent invoices on CDC letterhead to medical facilities assisting in the research for reimbursement of work allegedly covered by the grants. The invoices were addressed to Aarhaus University and Sahlgrenska University Hospital. The fact that the invoices were on CDC letterhead made it appear that CDC was requesting the money from Aarhaus University and Sahlgrenska University Hospital although the bank account listed on the invoices belonged to Thorsen.
In April 2011, Thorsen was indicted on 22 counts of Wire Fraud and Money Laundering.
According to bank account records, Thorsen purchased a home in Atlanta, a Harley Davidson motorcycle, an Audi automobile, and a Honda SUV with funds that he received from the CDC grants.
Thorsen is currently in Denmark and is awaiting extradition to the United States.

https://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/fugitives/profiles.asp

A central figure behind the Center for Disease Control's (CDC) claims disputing the link between vaccines and autism and other neurological disorders has disappeared after officials discovered massive fraud involving the theft of millions in taxpayer dollars. Danish police are investigating Dr. Poul Thorsen, who has vanished along with almost $2 million that he had supposedly spent on research.

<modsnip>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/central-figure-in-cdc-vac_b_494303.html

fake but accurate I'm sure

 

[Charlie09]

are court documents considered copyright?

 

[nrdsb4]

I want to thank those of you eloquently debating this issue.
My daughter is facing harsh and daily attacks from her husbands extended family because she has opted to not vaccinate her son who is 2 1/2. This is a new and recent topic of conversation, since the Disneyland outbreak.

I did not vaccinate my 7 children, they are almost all adults now. This was in the 80s and 90s. While I did not feel threatened from the medical community or schools, it was still quite intimidating. I followed the law, educated myself, and made informed choices for MY children. I was only willing to consider the tetnus vaccine-I did not pressure others to not vaccinate and was able to answer most questions by those who were curious. I believe it is an individual choice which should not be made or taken lightly. I believe in educating yourself, not hard to do in this day and age of the internet where we have much access to the data, studies, and professional opinions. I am shocked to see the hate and fear being projected onto those who choose not to vaccinate, I am glad that I didn't have to be condemned and called out through my FB or other social media. My children are all perfectly healthy, I would say in 25 years I have only seen doctors 10 times or less between all 7 kids. We survived. Will my grandchildren and their parents now be forced into mass vaccination?

I am not going to debate this, just wanted to thank those who are. Thank you.

JMO

BBM

I personally don't believe that anyone will "force" vaccines on your grandchildren.

However, as the tide is turning, they may not be eligible to attend public schools without proof of vaccines or proof of immunity. They may not be allowed to travel to many foreign countries. They may not be able to attend the university of their dreams. They may be excluded from social activities, places such as dance studios, karate classes, and the like.

They retain the option of choice, but as with all choices, there will be consequences, some of which might be unpleasant indeed.

But is anyone going to hold your grandkids down and stick a needle into them against their parents' wishes? Doubt it.

 

[Margo/Mom]

My children are all perfectly healthy, I would say in 25 years I have only seen doctors 10 times or less between all 7 kids. We survived. Will my grandchildren and their parents now be forced into mass vaccination?

JMO

I actually remember mass vaccinations. Not by force, but through a public education campaign and the memory of the disease of polio. When I was in elementary school the oral vaccine (Sabin Oral) vaccine for polio was approved and there was a massive public health effort to immunize the population. We had "Sabin Oral Sundays" and whole families went to receive the vaccine--on sugar cubes, or a dropped into the mouth for infants. As I recall we needed three successive doses or full protection. We have eradicated polio through such efforts.

But with regard to your children and grandchildren, I think that the scenario more to be feared is that, unless your daughters (and granddaughters) have/had the disease as children, they could be exposed during pregnancy, enhancing the risk of birth defects. And unless your sons (and grandsons) have mumps during childhood, they could contract it as an adult with resultant serious impacts including sterility.

Now those are just the direct impacts to your family. There are also indirect impacts through the exposure of people with allergies that prevent inoculation, illness or age issues that preclude protection or those with compromised immune systems.

Since you believe that you have thoroughly researched the issue, I am curious at how you have weighed each of these risks. The folks who set immunization protocols (like the CDC), actually weigh peer-reviewed research and compare the epidemiological risks all the way around in making their recommendations. Frankly, I'll stick with their findings over amateurs chasing around the internet.