Measles: To Disneyland and Beyond

[K_Z]

If you have been vaccinated against measles but don't know if it was live attenuated or inactivated, you can always be tested for immunity rather than being vaccinated if that is important to you.

That's a very important point, nrdsb4. Anyone worried about their immune status should have a talk with their primary health care provider. Each person should know the risks versus benefits of testing for immunity, vs taking an immunization again that might provide psychological comfort, but be unnecessary.

For many healthy people who may be at risk for incomplete immunity (as in the above group who received dead measles virus instead of the newer attenuated virus), it may be such low risk to repeat the immunization that it isn't worth testing for immunity. The key is that each person's individual situation is different, based on their health status now, and when they were ill, or vaccinated as a child. People concerned need to discuss their personal circumstances with a knowledgeable health care provider.

 

[RT51]

In the early 70's, my sister brought home Chicken Pox. I then got it, as well as my father. As a child, he never caught any of the diseases his sisters had. My father was miserable. I was in 8th grade, so miserable too. Then my sister was exposed to the mumps. Dad never had that either, so my mother, father, and I were vaccinated before she was symptomatic, and we never caught it. When I was pregnant for my oldest in the 80's, the immunity showed up for measles, mumps, and rubella. So the vaccine covered me.

My children were always vaccinated on schedule. I didn't want them to catch anything that could be prevented. I'm glad that my daughter feels the same way for my grandchildren. My kids did have the chicken pox though as that was before the vaccination was available.

I just don't get the mindset of people who would risk their child's health by not immunizing them, not to mention, risking other health compromised people.

 

[nrdsb4]

I just don't get the mindset of people who would risk their child's health by not immunizing them, not to mention, risking other health compromised people.

The rabid anti-vaxxers truly don't give a flying flip about other vulnerable people. That's abundantly clear when they justify their stance.

 

[graysmama]

I have yet to see any logic or real science from any anti vaxxer. They usually contradict themselves with
"Well vaccines don't 100% prevent disease" and going onto say "well if your child is vaccinated then you shouldn't be worried about my unvaccinated child."

I think we all get that vaccines don't prevent everything but they are by far the best protection we have. I have the HPV vaccine in my twenties when it was new but later got an HPV strain that the vaccine doesn't prevent. The flu shot may not protect from every flu strain. But I'd rather have the vaccines and protect myself as much as I can rather than be ill. Why be sick and miserable and miss work if I don't have to?

My child will be 5 next month. He had his first vaccine at 15 months and his second this past year. I'm not super worried about him getting measles even though there is that small chance but I have friends and family members with infants who are too young for vaccines all of whom plan to vaccinate once their baby is older. How is it fair to them that the babies have this higher exposure to measles then they should. Unvaccinated people are the primary reason for the increase in measles but they keep coming up with increasingly crazy arguments to deny it. Unvaccinated people pose a risk everywhere they go because there are always people who are too young or have a real medical reason not to be vaccinated. These are the people that herd/community immunity should be protecting but because of selfishness and irrational fear they are now being exposed.

I have to wonder on the small number of cases of vaccinated people getting measles, how many of those did not have the second vaccine or had the vaccine back when it was new? I was born in 1980 and I remember when the second vaccine started becoming commonplace and my mother taking me to the health department to get the second vaccine. I wonder how many adults got the first vaccine at the time when only one was given but never went back for the second shot when the recommendation changed? My mother was born in 1958 and had the measles. My dad was born in 1957. Not sure if he had the measles but my mom said once that he probably got the vaccine no matter what when he joined the military in 1980.

In the early 70's, my sister brought home Chicken Pox. I then got it, as well as my father. As a child, he never caught any of the diseases his sisters had. My father was miserable. I was in 8th grade, so miserable too. Then my sister was exposed to the mumps. Dad never had that either, so my mother, father, and I were vaccinated before she was symptomatic, and we never caught it. When I was pregnant for my oldest in the 80's, the immunity showed up for measles, mumps, and rubella. So the vaccine covered me.

My children were always vaccinated on schedule. I didn't want them to catch anything that could be prevented. I'm glad that my daughter feels the same way for my grandchildren. My kids did have the chicken pox though as that was before the vaccination was available.

I just don't get the mindset of people who would risk their child's health by not immunizing them, not to mention, risking other health compromised people.

My mother has said to me part of why she had us vaccinated was remembering how sick and miserable she was as a child when she had measles. I remember having chicken pox back in the 1980s and how awful I felt and crying because it happened during Christmas meaning I missed out on a lot of holiday activities. I don't want my child missing school or feeling miserable if it can be prevented. He just had an ear infection and was in so much pain last month until the antibiotics and ear drops provided relief. I don't have unlimited sick days at work and he's in pre-k with the school district and can only miss so many days as well. I don't get why people would want themselves or their families to be ill if it can be prevented.

 

[MyBelle]

I have yet to see any logic or real science from any anti vaxxer. They usually contradict themselves with
"Well vaccines don't 100% prevent disease" and going onto say "well if your child is vaccinated then you shouldn't be worried about my unvaccinated child."

I think we all get that vaccines don't prevent everything but they are by far the best protection we have. I have the HPV vaccine in my twenties when it was new but later got an HPV strain that the vaccine doesn't prevent. The flu shot may not protect from every flu strain. But I'd rather have the vaccines and protect myself as much as I can rather than be ill. Why be sick and miserable and miss work if I don't have to?

My child will be 5 next month. He had his first vaccine at 15 months and his second this past year. I'm not super worried about him getting measles even though there is that small chance but I have friends and family members with infants who are too young for vaccines all of whom plan to vaccinate once their baby is older. How is it fair to them that the babies have this higher exposure to measles then they should. Unvaccinated people are the primary reason for the increase in measles but they keep coming up with increasingly crazy arguments to deny it. Unvaccinated people pose a risk everywhere they go because there are always people who are too young or have a real medical reason not to be vaccinated. These are the people that herd/community immunity should be protecting but because of selfishness and irrational fear they are now being exposed.

I have to wonder on the small number of cases of vaccinated people getting measles, how many of those did not have the second vaccine or had the vaccine back when it was new? I was born in 1980 and I remember when the second vaccine started becoming commonplace and my mother taking me to the health department to get the second vaccine. I wonder how many adults got the first vaccine at the time when only one was given but never went back for the second shot when the recommendation changed? My mother was born in 1958 and had the measles. My dad was born in 1957. Not sure if he had the measles but my mom said once that he probably got the vaccine no matter what when he joined the military in 1980.



My mother has said to me part of why she had us vaccinated was remembering how sick and miserable she was as a child when she had measles. I remember having chicken pox back in the 1980s and how awful I felt and crying because it happened during Christmas meaning I missed out on a lot of holiday activities. I don't want my child missing school or feeling miserable if it can be prevented. He just had an ear infection and was in so much pain last month until the antibiotics and ear drops provided relief. I don't have unlimited sick days at work and he's in pre-k with the school district and can only miss so many days as well. I don't get why people would want themselves or their families to be ill if it can be prevented.

All states now require measles vaccine to attend public school. I think the hesitancy of parents to have their infants receive it has more to do with being overly cautious and fearful from the vocal rhetoric that it may be harmful. Those of us who had measles--and know of kids who became deaf because of it--are aware that there is always a flip-side to being overly cautious.

JMO

 

[CoolJ]

I have many reasons I could give for why I will never have a vaccination of any kind. The biggest of those reasons is simply because the pharmaceutical companies are absolutely untrustworthy. This whole debate is not about health and wellness for me or my family or for us as a species. It is simply about profits. Big Pharma wants us vaccinated for EVERYTHING. They profit off of disease. Their mandate is illness, not wellness. Not even close. I don't even read the research anymore because it has been manipulated so many times it is not even worth the effort. I respect those who wish to be vaccinated because they are only doing what they believe is best because that is what their doctor and government are telling them. My question is, who is telling the doctors and governments that vaccines are safe and effective?
Scary stuff IMO.

 

[K_Z]

I get that some folks want to be paranoid and angry about "big pharma". But being paranoid about something like measles vaccine making "big pharma" rich is ridiculous.

MMR vaccines have been available for over 50 years. They have saved millions of children and adults from being horribly sickened, and thousands and thousands from permanent complications of that disease. MMR costs on average less than $50, and many sources list the cost under $20. The current vaccines are over 99% effective. So, for a measely $20 or so, the "big pharma" companies are NOT getting rich off of MMR vaccines.

But you know what? Let's put on our thinking caps and look at the cost of even a $50 vaccine, that prevents illness in only one or a few people. How much does it cost to treat a child with measles who survives, but develops hearing loss? Is "big pharma" going to get rich off that? What is the cost of a child who develops measles encephalitis, and then dies after days of ICU treatment? I'd say that $18 to $50 MMR vaccine is a pretty cost effective investment, balanced against an outbreak or epidemic.

And think about this. Should health care workers be allowed to refuse vaccinations? Is that a good idea on any level, especially from a public health perspective? Even the most rabid "anti-vaxer" expects health care workers to not infect themselves or their children.

Here's a nice discussion from noted ethicist Arthur Caplan:

"Free To Choose, But Liable for the Consequences: Should Non- Vaccinators Be Penalized for the Harm They Do?

http://www.academia.edu/2344148/Fre...vaccinators_be_penalized_for_the_harm_they_do

If it's worth ranting and raving about "big pharma" getting rich, here are 2 issues to be justifiably ranting and raving about.

How about when pharmaceutical companies (big and small) decide to "stop making" drugs for rare diseases that cure or greatly improve the conditions of people unfortunately afflicted with rare diseases ("orphan drugs")? Why do they stop making the drugs? Well, they cost too much to make, and not enough people are sick enough to need them or buy them, even at huge costs. So "big pharma" can't make enough money off selling the drugs, so they decide certain people with certain illnesses aren't "worth" treating. That's worth ranting and raving about, especially if you know and love someone who needs those orphan drugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_drug

Or, one could rant and rave about something like allergy and hay fever drugs. Big Pharma changes one measely molecule, or spins the compound left or right, and gets to patent it and market it as a whole NEW (and, of course *BETTER*) prescription-only drug! Then they get to charge exorbitant prices for this new drug, after a marketing campaign convincing (bamboozling) a large swath of the population that they *need* this new allergy medicine for their hay fever. (When one of the dozens on the market would work just as well for almost everyone, but the older, cheaper drugs just aren't as modern and sexy as the new "it" hayfever drug.)

I have a lot of "big pharma" things I could rant and rave about, but cost and availability of MMR vaccines isn't one of them.

 

[K_Z]

I have many reasons I could give for why I will never have a vaccination of any kind. The biggest of those reasons is simply because the pharmaceutical companies are absolutely untrustworthy. This whole debate is not about health and wellness for me or my family or for us as a species. It is simply about profits. Big Pharma wants us vaccinated for EVERYTHING. They profit off of disease. Their mandate is illness, not wellness. Not even close. I don't even read the research anymore because it has been manipulated so many times it is not even worth the effort. I respect those who wish to be vaccinated because they are only doing what they believe is best because that is what their doctor and government are telling them. My question is, who is telling the doctors and governments that vaccines are safe and effective? Scary stuff IMO.

BBM. Science. Strong, validated, undeniable, reproducible, scientific method. Statistics don't lie.

If we narrow the conversation to ONLY the MMR vaccine, the science is there, in droves. It's safe. It's cheap. And it's effective. Measles is a terrible, awful disease that was eradicated in this country until paranoid and ignorant people began to refuse vaccination in large numbers. In many areas like this, we are rapidly devolving as a society. Education cures ignorance.

We don't allow people in this country with STD's, HIV, and AIDS to rape children, even if they "truly believe" raping a child will "cure" them. That's not an "alternative treatment" in our society. As a society, we need to work to cure the ignorance that compels people to refuse vaccinations. And IMO, if we can't cure ignorance with education, then it's time to structure our laws to compel the ignorant to be responsible. The public health stakes are simply too high to allow this kind of "anti-vaccination" ignorance to grow and predominate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_cleansing_myth

 

[nrdsb4]

I shudder to think about polio getting a foothold here.

 

[K_Z]

Before the widespread use of a vaccine against measles, its incidence was so high that infection with measles was felt to be "as inevitable as death and taxes."

The benefit of measles vaccination in preventing illness, disability, and death has been well documented. The first 20 years of licensed measles vaccination in the U.S. prevented an estimated 52 million cases of the disease, 17,400 cases of intellectual disability, and 5,200 deaths. During 1999–2004, a strategy led by the World Health Organization and UNICEF led to improvements in measles vaccination coverage that averted an estimated 1.4 million measles deaths worldwide.[12] Between 2000 and 2013, measles vaccination resulted in a 75% decrease in deaths from the disease.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine

BBM. We should all be worried about measles and "anti-vaxers." That's worth being upset about, IMO. Children are going to die because of anti-vaxers not immunizing themselves and their children with MMR. IMO, that's profoundly irresponsible (and IMO, negligent) behavior that only results from the lull in measles cases that we have enjoyed since the 1960s and 70s. Few of the current anti-vaxers have ever seen what measles can do. Frustrating that it will take an epidemic and dead kids to bring this conversation about irresponsible non-vaccination to the forefront of the public.

 

[K_Z]

I shudder to think about polio getting a foothold here.

TB is a huge problem at present, too. As is whooping cough.

Many "third world" diseases are making a resurgence here, thanks to anti-vaxers. Immigrants often bring in these kinds of diseases, but if the "herd" of American society were properly immunized, only the carriers and a few un-immunized people would be at risk. The demographic problem we have now is the children of the original anti-vaxers are now adults. The unvaccinated percent of the total population is increasing.

Courts have long held that individuals with hazardous, contagious diseases have a legal duty to protect others from the danger of infection.

The foreseeability of harm is a crucial factor in determining the existence and scope of an individual’s legal duty.

As the Maryland Court of Appeals has held, One who knows he or she has a highly infectious disease can readily foresee the danger that the disease may be communicated to others with whom the infected person comes into contact. As a consequence, the infected person has a duty to take reasonable precautions — whether by warning others or by avoiding contact with them — to avoid transmitting the disease.

http://www.academia.edu/2344148/Fre...vaccinators_be_penalized_for_the_harm_they_do

BBM. I think (hope) it's just a matter of time before laws and courts will determine that parents who knowingly and affirmatively refuse vaccination will be committing negligent behavior, as the current education campaign will continue to demonstrate that they made the choice even knowing the behavior could harm or kill others.

I strongly believe that the "philosophical objections" and "religious exceptions" should be removed from state laws requiring vaccinations for public school, as has been done in Mississippi and West Virginia. I'd go so far as to support a requirement for immunizations for driver licenses and passports, to limit travel of the unvaccinated, as well as to qualify for welfare benefits. But that's just me. I believe strongly in herd immunity.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the airlines, both domestic and international, began to require proof of immunization in order to buy a plane ticket and fly?

Worth watching again:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2015/01/30/erin-foreman-how-does-measles-spread.cnn

 

[BingoBongo]

I have many reasons I could give for why I will never have a vaccination of any kind. The biggest of those reasons is simply because the pharmaceutical companies are absolutely untrustworthy. This whole debate is not about health and wellness for me or my family or for us as a species. It is simply about profits. Big Pharma wants us vaccinated for EVERYTHING. They profit off of disease. Their mandate is illness, not wellness. Not even close. I don't even read the research anymore because it has been manipulated so many times it is not even worth the effort. I respect those who wish to be vaccinated because they are only doing what they believe is best because that is what their doctor and government are telling them. My question is, who is telling the doctors and governments that vaccines are safe and effective?
Scary stuff IMO.

That makes no sense.

If pharmaceutical companies wanted to get rich off measles, they'd drop vaccines and make jack up the costs of meds to treat the horrid possibilities.

Vaccines REDUCE costs, to them, to you, to me, to doctors, hospitals, etc.

 

[blue22]

All states now require measles vaccine to attend public school. I think the hesitancy of parents to have their infants receive it has more to do with being overly cautious and fearful from the vocal rhetoric that it may be harmful. Those of us who had measles--and know of kids who became deaf because of it--are aware that there is always a flip-side to being overly cautious.

JMO

No.

All states require the vaccine OR and exemption waiver. Every state except for Mississippi and West Virginia provides an exemption for religious reasons. 19 states have exemptions for personal or philosophical reasons. Private schools are allowed to require whatever they want, but public schools MUST legally honor the exemptions in their state.

This is just a calcification, no indication of my personal beliefs regarding vaccinations.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I have many reasons I could give for why I will never have a vaccination of any kind. The biggest of those reasons is simply because the pharmaceutical companies are absolutely untrustworthy. This whole debate is not about health and wellness for me or my family or for us as a species. It is simply about profits. Big Pharma wants us vaccinated for EVERYTHING. They profit off of disease. Their mandate is illness, not wellness. Not even close. I don't even read the research anymore because it has been manipulated so many times it is not even worth the effort. I respect those who wish to be vaccinated because they are only doing what they believe is best because that is what their doctor and government are telling them. My question is, who is telling the doctors and governments that vaccines are safe and effective?
Scary stuff IMO.

There is nothing to discuss. Vaccines are important to the whole world as they save lives and prevent distruction from side effects of the diseases vaccines prevent.

 

[Confusion]

You'd think something might have been learned from the smallpox vaccine, but apparently not. In the beginning, people said the same thing about that as they do about the MMR now. It made people sick there was no proof it helped, the drug companies just wanted the money, etc. It took about 30 years of hardcore vaccination efforts (around the world, not just in Western countries) and the disease was considered to be eradicated Now smallpox vaccinations aren't much of an issue... except maybe with some us us who still hate the scar it left.

The problem, IMO, is there will always be measles (and other diseases) as long as there are some people who refuse treatment/immunization so there is a host for them. On the other hand, I'm not 100% convinced that it's right to risk causing health issues, up to and including death, in today's youth whose parents don't approve in order to benefit other children in the future. I survived most childhood diseases, so I only had the smallpox and polio immunizations, but I know that not everybody who contracts them will make it through (especially in good health.) I'm not sure how I feel about mandatory vaccinations.

MOO

 

[Hiandmighty]

Now the babies are getting it:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-santa-monica-baby-measles-20150202-story.html

Daycare closed in Santa Monica

 

[CoolJ]

Has anybody ever actually read through the dozens and dozens of lawsuits AND criminal charges laid against every major pharmaceutical company worldwide? If not, I suggest you do. And then come back and tell me you still believe they are interested in health & wellness.

There are people, including former board members, reps, doctors, former lobbyists, former medical journal editors and tens of thousands of everyday citizens who are SHOUTING FROM THE ROOFTOPS trying to get this information out there. MSM isn't touching it.
I don't trust them with my health and wellness and that is why I will never have a vaccine or any prescription drug for that matter. And I will spend the rest of my life bringing awareness to this travesty.

 

[Snoods]

BBM. Can someone tell me if this stat is true and if so, why did more than half die? Inadequate health care?
I'm wondering because I am allergic to the measles vaccine. I've never had to think about it before, but now I am wondering what the fatality percentage would be in the US. There haven't been any deaths from the Disneyland exposure has there? Tia

You're a perfect example of why herd immunity is so important!

There are legitimate groups of people who are unable to be vaccinated. Those include children still too young, those with weakened immune systems (for example a cancer patient), the small percentage of vaccinated people that the vac doesn't work for, and the small percentage of people such as yourself who are legitimately allergic to the vaccine. And the group of adults who received the inactivated vaccine between 1963-76 should be revaccinated.

This is why herd immunity is vital! And the system was working fine until all these nonvaccinated clusters of kids started showing up.

This is a disease that was declared eliminated by the CDC in 2000!

After this measles epidemic started, out of curiosity I asked my doctor if he sees non-vaxed kids and he said not anymore. I hope more doctors start doing this. I'm sure no young mother wants to take her infant to a doctor and sit down next to the unvaxed family with sick kids that turns out to be measles.

KZ, can the measles virus mutate? Is there a concern that with so many people getting measles it will eventually start getting stronger and sickening even healthy vaccinated people?

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html

 

[jjenny]

Sadly, that letter sounds very similar to what actual people who refuse to vaccinate have been quoted as saying.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Somehow during the course of eradicating the diseases with vaccines, some people decided to think the vaccine causes more harm than THE DISEASE ITSELF. For no particular reason either.

Anti-vaxxers have become a threat to public (nation and world wide) health.

I think the parents of that baby need to sue whatever unvaccinated person caused their baby to get sick (if they could ever prove it). Now the whole daycare is closed and those babies are all going to be in quarantine for 21 days and those parents are going to be out of work and perhaps fired, not to mention the possible life-threat to the baby, the miserable experience for the baby, the high fevers and (if the baby is a boy), the possible sterility.