Measles: To Disneyland and Beyond

[nrdsb4]

Being a parent involves a tad bit more than having fun. Of course you don't expect a deadly disease but you also do not anticipate a deadly car accident on your way to the amusement park but it could happen so it is wise to engage all safety measures including wearing seat belts. Disney's cleaning protocol had nothing to do with the measles outbreak.

JMO

I do agree with that. They can clean the park all they want, but if someone walks through the gates infected with a disease which is spread via the airborne route, well, a clean park is no match for that.

 

[nrdsb4]

With regard to MMR vaccine (as this is the main topic at hand here), while there may be instances of corruption and unethical manufacturing and unethical research, there is NO QUESTION that millions upon millions of people all over the world have avoided being infected with measles over the past 50 years, and lives have been saved from permanent complications and death. We have very, very reliable data about infection rates world wide. And the "option" to avoid vaccination for measles on a widespread scale will unquestionably lead to larger and larger outbreaks, a re-established reservoir of disease in our country (a rich country), and more and more complications and death here, as well as in poor and vulnerable populations around the world.

Wholesale rejection of vaccines, and immersion in paranoid thinking is just not logical or reasonable. It's a really unhealthy and harmful mindset to be making decisions from for self and children, IMO.

Well said. Given the ENORMOUS benefit relative to risk which has been demonstrated by vaccines against measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, polio, meningitis, etc., if pharma gets to make a few bucks, so be it. That doesn't mean that the industry cannot ALSO be held accountable for misdeeds as they occur. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water when the price is death and disability on a grand scale.

 

[nrdsb4]

The more I think about it, the more I think the religious exemption should also be done away with for public school attendance. Why is a religious person's objection more valid than someone else's personal objection?

 

[Sonya610]

Wholesale rejection of vaccines, and immersion in paranoid thinking is just not logical or reasonable. It's a really unhealthy and harmful mindset to be making decisions from for self and children, IMO.

Too many folks can live in their "fantasy/paranoid" filled world because of vaccines (and soon to be gone antibiotics).

150 years ago parents could EXPECT to bury some of their babies due to disease. The under 5 death rate was very high. These days they see disease as such a small risk they don't consider the consequences, and even if their kid DID get sick they WOULD expect a mil or two in hospital care. If they can't afford that much care then the "herd" can pay for it.

 

[jjenny]

The more I think about it, the more I think the religious exemption should also be done away with for public school attendance. Why is a religious person's objection more valid than someone else's personal objection?

Exactly.

 

[FindHG]

Vaccines work on a simple social contract, the broader immunity the vaccines provide for a particular disease across a community, the more effective. Vaccinations don't just protect one's self but also your family, your neighbors, your town and beyond. By vaccinating yourself, and all children, you also protect the people you would otherwise spread the disease to.

For the sake of hope for our progress and survival, we humans can all cooperate on a no-brainer like this and not go backwards, it seems to me.

 

[blue22]

So how many Americans get exemptions each year? And what do the exemptions cover?

I don't believe there is any way to really know that for sure. Even when an outbreak happens, the schools cannot tell other parents what child is not vaccinated. (Although I'm sure most could figure it out, since the child would not be able to attend school during an outbreak.) Exemptions are handled the same way vaccine record are. They can't tell parents about a student's status. From what I can tell, the statistics about how many children are though to have exemptions, are just a conjecture or formula based estimates.

 

[nrdsb4]

Vaccines work on a simple social contract, the broader immunity the vaccines provide for a particular disease across a community, the more effective. Vaccinations don't just protect one's self but also your family, your neighbors, your town and beyond. By vaccinating yourself, and all children, you also protect the people you would otherwise spread the disease to.

For the sake of hope for our progress and survival, we humans can all cooperate on a no-brainer like this and not go backwards, it seems to me.

It's like reporting a rape. You're not just protecting yourself, but the next victim, the way I see it.

Right, but as Dr. Jack Wolfson stated, most of the anti-vaxxers don't give a flying flip about other innocent children and vulnerable people.

The CNN interviewer asked Wolfson repeatedly if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got other children fatally sick.

“I could live with myself easily. It’s an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. And I’m not going to put my child at risk to save another child,” he said.

"I'm not going to sacrifice the wellbeing of my child," he added. "My child is pure."

They are perfectly happy to ride the coattails of herd immunity, but they are not willing to personally contribute to it.

 

[blue22]

Vaccines work on a simple social contract, the broader immunity the vaccines provide for a particular disease across a community, the more effective. Vaccinations don't just protect one's self but also your family, your neighbors, your town and beyond. By vaccinating yourself, and all children, you also protect the people you would otherwise spread the disease to.

For the sake of hope for our progress and survival, we humans can all cooperate on a no-brainer like this and not go backwards, it seems to me.

It's like reporting a rape. You're not just protecting yourself, but the next victim, the way I see it.

Not that I am disagreeing with your main point, but it's not at all like reporting a rape. That's actually a really unfair comparison. A VICTIM is not responsible for protecting other people and it's not THEIR fault is a criminal chooses to hurt someone. People don't report for many, many reasons and they should always have that choice...without judgement or bearing any responsibility for the actions of others.

 

[Morag]

...are born in the US, and every one of them is vulnerable. Practically none of them will go to a Disney park, or any sort of big entertainment venue. But virtually all of them will visit a doctor's office, and most will be in a grocery store or other public place from time to time. Parents who refuse to vaccinate their children have a new group of 4 million babies every year whom they are willing to endanger. This whole kerfuffle may end very badly.

 

[nrdsb4]

...are born in the US, and every one of them is vulnerable. Practically none of them will go to a Disney park, or any sort of big entertainment venue. But virtually all of them will visit a doctor's office, and most will be in a grocery store or other public place from time to time. Parents who refuse to vaccinate their children have a new group of 4 million babies every year whom they are willing to endanger. This whole kerfuffle may end very badly.

As the title of this thread is "Measles: To Disneyland and Beyond," I think that is a very appropriate point to make. BBM. Well said also.

 

[MyBelle]

My post says "public places." People should not have to keep their babies at home with baby sitters for the first couple of years because the anti vaxxer movement has destroyed the herd immunity which had been achieved in this country at one time.

People always have had the right to drag their babies anywhere they want. That won't change anytime soon. Anyone stuck on an airplane with a screaming baby knows that all too well.

JMO

 

[nrdsb4]

People always have had the right to drag their babies anywhere they want. That won't change anytime soon. Anyone stuck on an airplane with a screaming baby knows that all too well.

JMO

Who said anything about not having the right to take a baby into public? Certainly wasn't me.

Will re-state with qualification: People should not have to keep their babies at home with baby sitters for the first couple of years in order to protect them from risk increased by the anti-vaxxers because the anti vaxxer movement has destroyed the herd immunity which had been achieved in this country at one time.

When herd immunity is present, there remains a risk of contracting disease for any vulnerable person when they go into the public. But it is relatively small. The point I'm making is that people who are choosing to degrade the herd immunity often bellow out that if vulnerable people who have no option to vaccinate don't like it, they should stay out of public places. I think the reverse should be true. This is simply an opinion.

 

[MyBelle]

Who said anything about not having the right to take a baby into public? Certainly wasn't me.

Will re-state with qualification: People should not have to keep their babies at home with baby sitters for the first couple of years in order to protect them from risk increased by the anti-vaxxers because the anti vaxxer movement has destroyed the herd immunity which had been achieved in this country at one time.

When herd immunity is present, there remains a risk of contracting disease for any vulnerable person when they go into the public. But it is relatively small. The point I'm making is that people who are choosing to degrade the herd immunity often bellow out that if vulnerable people who have no option to vaccinate don't like it, they should stay out of public places. I think the reverse should be true. This is simply an opinion.

The Disneyland outbreak started with a tourist from a foreign country, not with an American "anti-vaxxer." The risk of contracting a virus at such a place has always been there and always will be there. It is unrealistic to believe there is a way to identify those who are not vaccinated in order to keep them out.

JMO

 

[FindHG]

Not that I am disagreeing with your main point, but it's not at all like reporting a rape. That's actually a really unfair comparison. A VICTIM is not responsible for protecting other people and it's not THEIR fault is a criminal chooses to hurt someone. People don't report for many, many reasons and they should always have that choice...without judgement or bearing any responsibility for the actions of others.

Agreed. An insufficient parallel, as you well point out, thus corrected to reflect your thoughts on this.

 

[nrdsb4]

The Disneyland outbreak started with a tourist from a foreign country, not with an American "anti-vaxxer." The risk of contracting a virus at such a place has always been there and always will be there. It is unrealistic to believe there is a way to identify those who are not vaccinated in order to keep them out.

JMO

First of all, patient zero has NOT been identified, even by the CDC. Secondly, it is a fact that foreigners come to our country. When herd immunity is present, these foreigners have very little power to affect the population in big numbers. Foreigners have been coming to Disneyland for years, and rarely did measles outbreaks occur because most of our kids were vaccinated. The antivaxxers kids make it MORE likely that the disease will spread not only amongst themselves, but on to other vulnerable individuals who never went NEAR Disneyland.

From the CDC:

At this time, no source case for the outbreak has been identified, but it is likely that a traveler (or more than one traveler) who was infected with measles overseas visited one or both of the Disney parks in December during their infectious period.

Measles genotype information was available from 9 measles cases; all were genotype B3 and all sequences linked to this outbreak are identical. The sequences are also identical to the genotype B3 virus that caused a large outbreak in the Philippines in 2014. During the last 6 months, identical genotype B3 viruses were also detected in at least 14 countries and at least 6 U.S. states, not including those linked to the current outbreak.

The above was from an advisory dated January 23, 2015.

http://emergency.cdc.gov/HAN/han00376.asp

 

[PrairieWind]

What is the percentage of American's that are not vaccinated? Do we know? And what vaccines are currently "required?"

 

[Confusion]

I've never really understood the personal exemptions; if all you have to do is sign a paper saying you don't want your child immunized because you don't like vaccines, how is that considered to be mandatory vaccinations? I also question the religious exemptions. I believe this country is founded on, among other things, the separation of church and state. If that is the case, than it doesn't seem right for rules to be different (in public institutions) depending on your religion. Just as Mormons are allowed only one spouse in spite of their religious beliefs, parents are not allowed to beat their children no matter what their religious beliefs, and nobody is allowed to sacrifice virgins (or anyone else) because of their religious beliefs.

I see no reason why anyone should be allowed to endanger the lives, or even just the health, of those who have no choice medically for any reason other than when it endangers their own lives. If you choose not to have your child (or yourself) vaccinated, then you should also have to choose not to use public facilities, go into government buildings, doctor's offices, dental offices, etc. I hope the same problems don't eventually happen with polio, since that is only under control because of vaccines too. If more of the parents choosing not to vaccinate had lived through a time before the vaccines or in places where they weren't commonly used, maybe they'd reconsider. MOO

 

[Confusion]

What is the percentage of American's that are not vaccinated? Do we know? And what vaccines are currently "required?"

I have no idea about who isn't vaccinated, but I believe vaccines are required for measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, tetanus, polio and possibly chicken pox (that wasn't around when my kids were young, so I'm not sure about it).

 

[nrdsb4]

I see no reason why anyone should be allowed to endanger the lives, or even just the health, of those who have no choice medically for any reason other than when it endangers their own lives. If you choose not to have your child (or yourself) vaccinated, then you should also have to choose not to use public facilities, go into government buildings, doctor's offices, dental offices, etc. I hope the same problems don't eventually happen with polio, since that is only under control because of vaccines too. If more of the parents choosing not to vaccinate had lived through a time before the vaccines or in places where they weren't commonly used, maybe they'd reconsider. MOO

BM

That is just a horror story type of potential situation. Polio has not been eradicated world wide, and introduction of polio to the US would potentially cause untold grief and panic, I'm sure. That is not by any stretch a "benign" childhood disease.