Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #10

[SMK]

Also: assuming a possible hybristophiliac connection between AK and RS, (and there is no real evidence of this) one still has to wonder how it could escalate in a 6 day period, and moreover, how did Guede get in so quickly???

 

[otto]

Why would I write that? Because I find it equally disgusting that you would see her as using the cell when she is in that condition.

That is certainly not what I was saying. If she was using her phone at 10:15, then she was attacked later.

 

[SMK]

That is certainly not what I was saying. If she was using her phone at 10:15, then she was attacked later.

Well, I obviously saw her as already attacked, and do not want evil motives attributed to what I write. I meant what I asked, and it was not some ploy to get some vulgar words in. Rest assured of that. I am also assuming with Hendry that the encounter and attack took about 12 minutes total.

 

[otto]

You don't know what you are talking about in terms of coerced testimony. You've been given many examples to the contrary in these threads, but you ignore them all.

One would like to think that DNA has improved accuracy in convictions, but we really have no way of measuring. Since it doesn't carry a time stamp, DNA can be used to falsely implicate as well as exonerate.

But ... at the same time ... there does not seem to be any known case, anywhere in the world, where a University student accused an innocent man of murder after 2 hours of questioning as a witness about a murder.

Examples of guys in Texas that confessed to murder ... after some unspecified length of time ... it's not the same. First of all, we are talking about Italy, not Texas. Secondly, and most importantly, we are talking about 2 hours (a well known fact) and not some unspecified amount of time. All these facts are important.

 

[otto]

If I found such an example, you would immediately demand an example of "a girl from Seattle" who gave false testimony after 2 hours. And once I'd found that, you would demand that the girl be a blonde.

You see, I've figured out the game here.

Nope. Just give an example that is appropriate ... intelligent person being questioned who comes up with a whopper of a lie after 2 hours ... and who is actually innocent of the crime they are being interviewed about.

 

[otto]

Wasn't she questioned after sitting around inside the LE office for some time, at the end of day, and was fidgety to the point of doing the infamous cartwheel? To do such a thing in the sanctity of the offices of LE, she must be most demonic! Well, that's way some see it. I don't and as one who is fidgety I can relate to the climbing-the-walls way AK felt!

Nope. She was eating pizza with Raffaele at a friend's place at 10:30 PM when police asked Raffaele to come in and answer some questions. Amanda seemingly had no where to go and tagged along. Her questioning started at 11:30 and by 1:45 the statement was typed up and ready for a signature ... which Amanda ready offered.

 

[otto]

When my sister was in college, she worked at a riding stable and would get so bored waiting for people to come and rent horses, she would do cartwheels in the corridor of the barn. True, she was not waiting to speak about a dead friend, but she had plenty of trauma in her life at that point. Her nerves were driving her nuts. My niece also does cartwheels when she is restless.

Sure. She arrived at the police station at 11:00. She was all restless after less than 30 minutes with her studies ... flipped some cartwheels, did the splits ... then at 11:30 answered some questions without an interpreter, at 12:30 answered some questions with an interpreter, and voila ... she was sooooooooooo scared of Patrick. It was quite an embellished story as well.

 

[otto]

I'm convinced the "cartwheel story" has had such traction because in English (and for all I know in Italian as well) "doing cartwheels" is idiomatic for expressing joy. The pro-guilt camp likes to talk about AK doing cartwheels because it makes her seem not just heartless, but actually giddy over MK's death.

I don't think so. The problem is that it is highly inappropriate for adults to be flipping cartwheels at the police station during a murder investigation. It suggests a complete disrespect for the seriousness of the situation.

 

[SMK]

Otto, OK, granted all that you are saying and thinking-----Why would Knox not be sly enough to put on an act? Arrive all somber and teary at the police station, and act the part of the grieving friend? Doesn't the cartwheels suggest consciousness of innocence? i.e., "I have nothing to hide, nothing to live up to"--however offensive it might otherwise seem???? And I was making a valid point with those guys in Texas you big meanie:razz::slap:

 

[SMK]

Nope. Just give an example that is appropriate ... intelligent person being questioned who comes up with a whopper of a lie after 2 hours ... and who is actually innocent of the crime they are being interviewed about.

I think Peter Reilly fits the bill.

 

[otto]

Otto, OK, granted all that you are saying and thinking-----Why would Knox not be sly enough to put on an act? Arrive all somber and teary at the police station, and act the part of the grieving friend? Doesn't the cartwheels suggest consciousness of innocence? i.e., "I have nothing to hide, nothing to live up to"--however offensive it might otherwise seem???? And I was making a valid point with those guys in Texas you big meanie:razz::slap:

She was putting on an act ... she was being the silly girl flirting with officers at the police station. Who in their right mind flips a cartwheel at the police station? That's completely inappropriate. Knox miscalculated what would make her look innocent.

 

[otto]

I think Peter Reilly fits the bill.

Who is that?

 

[flourish]

I think ziggy was just making a joke, flourish. I doubt she meant any disrespect as that isn't her style. (I know because usually she and I are on opposite sides of issues.)

Thanks, Nova....with some folks' posts, it is quite difficult to tell joking from rudeness so I appreciate your clarification

 

[SMK]

Who is that?

Am rewriting this, as am trying to be objective and fair:



whoops, i recant, Reilly was interrogated for 25 hours.
http://truthinjustice.org/peter-reilly.htm


Also, from research on the topic:

Previous research has shown that most true confessions emerge after two hours and that interrogations which lead to false confessions typically last over 6 hours, with an average of 16.3 hours.” She believes that imposing a time limit of 4 or 6 hours should help decrease the occurrence of false confessions. http://www.cgu.edu/pages/5450.asp

 

[flourish]

Also: assuming a possible hybristophiliac connection between AK and RS, (and there is no real evidence of this) one still has to wonder how it could escalate in a 6 day period, and moreover, how did Guede get in so quickly???

I'm not really sure how long a couple knows each other fits into a hybristophilia dynamic...it's possible it was quick, nearly immediate, as it appeared to be in the Homolka case. However, I haven't done enough research to say, and I don't have a good theory re: Guede's participation. I'm on a quick break at work, so I can't get into it more, but I want to again state (and let our newbies know) that I'm actually still officially :fence: although, obviously, I lean heavily towards the guilty side...at this point, I'm at a "more likely guilty than not" but I'm not to "reasonable doubt" yet (if ever). Hope that makes sense...I'm trying to be fast to get back to my classroom TGIF!!!

ETA: And, yes, I understand that "more likely than not" is not the legal standard here...it's just my best way of explaining where I'm at.

 

[otto]

Am rewriting this, as am trying to be objective and fair:



whoops, i recant, Reilly was interrogated for 25 hours.
http://truthinjustice.org/peter-reilly.htm


Also, from research on the topic:

Previous research has shown that most true confessions emerge after two hours and that interrogations which lead to false confessions typically last over 6 hours, with an average of 16.3 hours.” She believes that imposing a time limit of 4 or 6 hours should help decrease the occurrence of false confessions. http://www.cgu.edu/pages/5450.asp

I bet it's really common for guilty people to tell whopping lies after 2 hours of questioning.

 

[SMK]

I bet it's really common for guilty people to tell whopping lies after 2 hours of questioning.

Is that what it says, ninny???????????:razz:

 

[SMK]

However, Knox did say that the "visions" she described seemed "unreal" and far less real than being at Raffaele's. Not a real confession.

 

[otto]

Is that what it says, ninny???????????:razz:

It says true confessions ... Amanda, after 2 hours, said she was at the cottage during the murder. She added the whopping lie that Patrick was murdering Meredith to distance herself from the truth.

 

[otto]

However, Knox did say that the "visions" she described seemed "unreal" and far less real than being at Raffaele's. Not a real confession.

Not a confession. After two hours, she gave a declaration that she was at the cottage at the time of the murder. She said that she was really scared of Patrick, that Patrick murderer Meredith.