Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #10

[wasnt_me]

Dempsey is basing TOD on the last cell call to bank. She says so plainly. But the person did not know the code to punch in. Had it been Meredith, or had she been alive, she would have given the code. I believe she was dead when this person tried to access her bank funds.

Dempsey:10:00 p.m. Someone makes a call on Meredith’s cellphone to her bank in the UK. It doesn’t go through because the caller didn’t punch the proper area code for London. The prosecution is sparring with Raffaele’s defense team over whether that call came from Meredith’s house or from the location where the phone was eventually found–an elderly neighbor’s garden. If the latter, then Meredith was most probably already dead.

10:25 p.m. Rudy says he left Meredith’s around this time. Afterward he went dancing at the Domus disco. Later he fled to Germany, where he was extradited after being caught riding a train without a ticket.

10:30 p.m. A black man running up the street near the cottage nearly knocks over an Italian man, according to witness reports. Neighbor Nara Capezzali reports hearing a terrible scream that night, but can’t remember when. She also heard people running but cannot say how many.

10 p.m.-11p p.m. Time of death, based on the last cellphone call.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2008/10/27/meredith-kercher-timeline-her-last-12-hours/

I believe all this but sitll don't believe that half deaf woman heard a scream and running right afterward.

 

[wasnt_me]

I'll flip through her book again later and pull out the statements where time of death is later.

We don't know who made that bank call. It could have been Meredith accidentally hitting a programmed number. The bank sent an automatic message about 15 minutes later and that message was deleted without being read. That sounds more like Meredith than Rudy. Rudy was throwing the phones away ... why would he delete a message, especially when he didn't even turn off the phones.

How come MK's programmed phone doesn't have the right code when she probably called the bank enough times for it to be right on its own? I'd have to ask if the misdialed call was erased from the phone, too, but recorded by the cell phone records. I GUESS that if he erased the message he might have erased his misdialed call, too.

 

[claudicici]

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JJahPK3Peo

I found the RG video

 

[sherlockh]

The pictures of the crime scene show her windows are closed until FR altered that, too while she was so innocently altering the crime scene. That witness heard something, alright, and said that night she heard it was Halloween.

I don't understand. You can think AK and RS are guilty without having to believe what extemperaneous, so-called witnesses have said. Some of them have just "come forward" to get media attention. You should be able to discern which ones to believe and not believe without being in danger of losing your hope that they're guilty.

I don't see what FR's shutters have to do with Nara hearing a scream? And how do you know what I hope? I hope for world peace :innocent:

 

[claudicici]

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=49

RS prison diary

 

[SMK]

I always get the feeling that AK really had no clue that MK had a problem with her.MK was to polite to bring it up and AK is not fine tuned into what others are feeling IMO so as far as motive goes I think it would have been far more conceivable that MK would have wanted AK out than AK even realizing there was a problem?

Exactly. Mignini made much of AK's seething resentment and jealousy of MK, but was AK, as you say, even tuned in enough to feel these things or to notice MK's disapproval???

 

[wasnt_me]

AND THIS TIMELINE OF CHARLES MUDEDE I WOULD CALL PURE FANTASY:

[23:30 - Meredith falls to the floor. The three try to undress her her to overcome her; they only manage to take off her trousers. The girl manages to get up, she struggles. At this point, the two knives emerge from the pockets of Amanda and Raffaele: one with a blade of four to five centimetres, the other however a big kitchen knife. Meredith tries to fend off the blades with her right hand. She is wounded.

Okay, That whole thing was terribly lacking motive. Motive for RG to hop off the toilet and join in. Motive for RS and AK to want to just go in the room and start a fight and then watch RG sexually assault her. Anyways, I can't get into the all kinds of wrong things about it, but just wanted to point out the part above about "Knives emerge from the pockets...."

Seriously? A kitchen knife? And if AK had to get it from her bag, then she had to let go of MK to do it, making them all lose control of the situation, given mK the chance to hurt them and cause RS and AK's dna to be in the room.

I can't imagine AK having brought the knife from RS's for the purpose of this murder, then says, "Oh, wait, she's resisting. Let me get my big kitchen knife out of my pocket."

I don't see how there's any way AK can stab MK and not get any blood on her or her dna on MK if they are still fighting MK.

Anyways, just my :twocents:

 

[Nova]

I don't think so. The problem is that it is highly inappropriate for adults to be flipping cartwheels at the police station during a murder investigation. It suggests a complete disrespect for the seriousness of the situation.

And has zero evidentiary value. Yet here you go again.

 

[Nova]

But ... at the same time ... there does not seem to be any known case, anywhere in the world, where a University student accused an innocent man of murder after 2 hours of questioning as a witness about a murder....

I don't know whether that is true and neither do you. But if it were true it might only mean that AK is uniquely manipulated.

And I said before, if I found the example you demand, you will merely demand a new set of conditions. You don't believe AK's statement was coerced because and only because you don't want to believe it. Full stop.

 

[Nova]

Otto, OK, granted all that you are saying and thinking-----Why would Knox not be sly enough to put on an act? Arrive all somber and teary at the police station, and act the part of the grieving friend? Doesn't the cartwheels suggest consciousness of innocence? i.e., "I have nothing to hide, nothing to live up to"--however offensive it might otherwise seem???? And I was making a valid point with those guys in Texas you big meanie:razz::slap:

Yes, indeed. Most of the behaviors that are invoked as proof of consciousness of guilt are in fact the opposite. The pro-guilt side will never acknowledge that, however, as you can see.

 

[SMK]

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JJahPK3Peo

I found the RG video

Probably just clowning around......But in retrospect, YIKES!!!!!!!!:gasp::gasp:

 

[SMK]

Okay, That whole thing was terribly lacking motive. Motive for RG to hop off the toilet and join in. Motive for RS and AK to want to just go in the room and start a fight and then watch RG sexually assault her. Anyways, I can't get into the all kinds of wrong things about it, but just wanted to point out the part above about "Knives emerge from the pockets...."

Seriously? A kitchen knife? And if AK had to get it from her bag, then she had to let go of MK to do it, making them all lose control of the situation, given mK the chance to hurt them and cause RS and AK's dna to be in the room.

I can't imagine AK having brought the knife from RS's for the purpose of this murder, then says, "Oh, wait, she's resisting. Let me get my big kitchen knife out of my pocket."

Anyways, just my :twocents:

Agreed!!!

 

[flourish]

It's just my playful way. I like to communicate like this. Ever notice I only do it to Otto, and no one else??? I was never considered an immature thinker: I was a member of Phi Beta Epsilon society and I majored in philosophy, and I presented papers on Nichomachean ethics and Aristotlean metaphysics and politics. My honor's thesis was on Nietzsche's Geneology of Morals. I am a press agent for many well known lawyers and media persons. Unless someone wants to ban me, I like sticking out my tongue at Otto. I assumed he could take it. Why, pray, are there icons with the tongue sticking out if we are not allowed to use them???:razzjust half-kidding, BTW):innocent: & truly thank you for your feedback:blowkiss:

I did notice who your tongue-sticking is directed at, thank goodness that is NOT what I had to do my thesis on, and, yes, the smilies and icons are here for our use. Otto can definitely take it....much better than me, admittedly.

However, I still don't know what a ninny is Although, come to think of it, I may have heard the expression "old ninny" before :waitasec: re: stuffy elderly women, but....?

 

[Nova]

. . . youth is listed as a factor that makes one susceptable to false confession. Amanda's interrogation was not taped, and she claims she was hit. She also was told a lawyer would "make things worse for her" and that if she was covering for someone, she would go away for 30 years and never see her family again. She quickly recanted her "visions" and said they were like a dream and not reliable. Further: the police lied and said they had proof she was there, and that Raffaele had turned on her.
There is at least one aspect to police lying that is deeply troubling and is by no means a matter of moral taste. Lying and deception set up circumstances under which an innocent person can be coerced into falsely confessing. The risk of miscarriages of justice that police lying creates could be reduced to near zero if certain procedural changes were made. Interrogations need to be entirely recorded and the law enforcement standard for what is considered an acceptable confession needs to be rethought and set at a level that requires that the substance of a subject’s confession corroborates his admission.http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/01c1e7698280d20385256d0b00789923/35986cc45c6af2b4052573ed0056ff9f?OpenDocument

I am very ambivalent about the disparity between what is allowed from police and what is required of private citizens.

In the U.S., our Supreme Court has ruled that police may lie almost at will (with only a few exceptions). On the other hand, private citizens commit felonies if they lie to police (ask Martha Stewart).

The only solution, really, is that none of us talk to police EVER. Ask for a lawyer and shut the hell up, if you're smart. Guilt or innocence is beside the point.

 

[SMK]

I did notice who your tongue-sticking is directed at, thank goodness that is NOT what I had to do my thesis on, and, yes, the smilies and icons are here for our use. Otto can definitely take it....much better than me, admittedly.

However, I still don't know what a ninny is Although, come to think of it, I may have heard the expression "old ninny" before :waitasec: re: stuffy elderly women, but....?

Thanks for being reasonable, and for some reason I picture Otto as a grouchy Germanic Professor, so love to give him these::razz::slap:
Well, when I was growing up, our grandmother would say, "Come here and put your coat on before you go running out, you Ninny!"---so I thought it meant sort of a "nincompoop"???:floorlaugh:

 

[Nova]

It seems that people who think AK is guilty do not believe in police brutality, police, violent interrogations, etc and they seem to think you can surely trust the government and agents of the government. Seems that they do not believe in corrupt officials, or officials who act in their own best interest instead of the interest of the public.

I don't know that you'll be able to convince them of it no matter how many factual cases you throw out about false confessions, coerced confessions, deplorable interrogation techniques etc. Or maybe they do believe in it, but refuse to believe it can happen to AK, because she is of course the "foxy knoxy" who seduces men into her web of lies and murder and even seduced the devil hunting prosecutor who writes of his dreams about her.

This prosecuter is definitely acting in his citizens' interest and not his own and AK is an evil little girl, who wanted MK to have sex with RG or die. to get out of it, she blames anyone she can. from the police all the way to her boss. It's that simple. for them anyway.

This post bears repeating, I think. I'm sorry, but I've seen and/or read about too many miscarriages of justice both here in the U.S. and abroad to blindly trust ILE.

As I've said before, it's not that I think most members of LE are intentionally corrupt, just that they are people and too easily develop tunnel vision.

Coincidentally, this month's Mother Jones has an informative article on cognitive functions and how most of the time when we believe we are open-minded and thinking scientifically, we are in fact merely arguing for what we already believe. AND, YES, this is as true of those of us who question the verdicts as it is of those who support them!

 

[wasnt_me]

I've seen many real life crime shows where long interrogations actually did result in false testimony.

I'm sure you, like I, would say we would never do that, but I've been amazed to find it happens.

One trick I've seen was where LE says to a suspect something along the lines of "can you imagine how someone might do this, etc... " and then they turn the person's guessing, or imagining how something could happen into a confession.

But it's bogus, and that's a big reason why it's imperative that interviews are always video and audio taped.

I know and AK claims they did that to her. If a police officer asked me to imagine something, I have to remember to just say I can't, no mattter what they say in response.

 

[Nova]

I agree that coercions happen and any coercion is one too many, but to imply that they are common I don't agree with. Percentage wise it is a rare occurrence. Same with LE lying and covering up for each other. It happens and it shouldn't happen but fortunately it is rare. For some reason, in this case coerced statements, and LE lying under oath are all seen as totally normal.

How can we possibly know? The only figures I've seen are from the Innocence Project and they find false confessions in large numbers of cases. But that's a survey of the wrongfully convicted, of course, and doesn't tell us how often false statements happen among suspects in general.

Of course I'd like to believe coercion of the innocent is uncommon, but every time I turn on the TV or open a book, it seems I encounter another case. So I don't really know.

 

[Nova]

How come MK's programmed phone doesn't have the right code when she probably called the bank enough times for it to be right on its own? I'd have to ask if the misdialed call was erased from the phone, too, but recorded by the cell phone records. I GUESS that if he erased the message he might have erased his misdialed call, too.

I must admit I don't know what to make of the calls from MK's phones.

 

[Nova]

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JJahPK3Peo

I found the RG video

Thank you very much for finding that. So either RG spoke just a little English (not unlike RS) or he was too stoned to articulate English in that video.