Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #11

[wasnt_me]

*Sigh* It's my own fault for opening this :worms:I thought I made it clear that my sharing that was a "FWIW" and not meant to be a direct comparison between myself and AK.

So FWIW, I was 21, everyone was speaking United States English, I was not a "true-crime aficionado," and no, it wasn't my roommate who had been murdered--it was my child.

That was a very unexpected can of worms. I don't want to pry it open anymore, though you know the WS in me wants to. But I won't. I just want to say I'm sorry to hear about it, Flourish. Really sorry.

 

[Allusonz]

No, you responded to my response to SMK about the room mates being suspicious of AK. That was the main point.

Actually no you claimed that no one was in town with a key besides AK. I requested a cite on this. Filomena was in town with a key

 

[sherlockh]

Actually no you claimed that no one was in town with a key besides AK. I requested a cite on this. Filomena was in town with a key

I already acknowledged that and mentioned that she wouldn't be suspicious of herself which was the main point.

 

[Allusonz]

I already acknowledged that and mentioned that she wouldn't be suspicious of herself which was the main point.

My point was there was someone else in town with a key....and that was Filomena not her boyfriend unless you are stating that he had a key as well

 

[wasnt_me]

thanks for this info, so it WAS true about being interrogated all those hours---Otto kept saying only 2. Of course it makes sense, she wanted to leave.....

Yes, Otto has been adamant about it only being 2 hours. the infamous "145am," but that doesn't bear out even in her testimony about that night, which I'm reading right now. Same site I keep quoting her testimony from, same page just toward the bottom.

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes, where were Amanda's bruises?

You always forget that hickie!:slapfight:

 

[wasnt_me]

So you're saying this person did climb through the window, but the only photo that was leaked/released/whatever was the one where he wasn't actually climbing through the window?? :waitasec: I wonder why I find that difficult to believe (not indicating you're lying Allusonz, but what you're stating I just can't swallow).

If I can venture to guess, I think if they had decided that they could only leak one photo, they probably wanted to address the biggest question of that fact that he could not climb the wall.

Having the test guy standing on the grate, practically shoulder height to the window sill shows that he could climb the wall. Flourish, with much respect, you have posed this question a lot, but our answers do not seem to satisfy you. It's probably best to just say that those who believe the photo, believe it, and those that don't, just don't. I don't believe we are ever going to see the full footage, even though they have it and had their own reasons for not releasing it.

If I could dig it out of evidence for you, you know I would. Esp, since you went there with the poo for me. But IF I so happen to come across something, I'll post it, because I know it's important for you to see, visually, how this is possible.

 

[wasnt_me]

The show brought out the point that in Italy one has to prove their innocence once accused...

AK was believed by LE according to the show to have coaxed and encouraged RG and RS in the attack on MK...

Now that's "pooed up!" I had asked about this before in this forum and was told that we in the USA built our justice system on the European ones. This might be true, but my question was did they believe innocent until proven guilty. Whomever was challenging me told me they did, and I guess they were wrong.

Dang.

 

[wasnt_me]

This was more evident in the UK friends that were all flew in to give testimony. (IIRC especially Ms. Butterworth's statement versus what was testified to)

I want to clarify or GET clarification.

According to the testimony, there was a group of British friends that MK hung out with WHO LIVED in Perugia. These ones that lived in Perugia and I suppose were in school are the ones who talked about MK and Ak's relationship. They are the ones that AK was referring to when she said she hadn't done anything to them to make them speak badly of her. AK also said she didn't like to hang around the UK's beause they spoke english and AK had come to Italy to emerce herself in Italian.

Now, you are saying there is also a group of MK's friends that were in the UK the whole time and flew to italy after the murder to testify?

 

[Allusonz]

*Sigh* It's my own fault for opening this :worms:I thought I made it clear that my sharing that was a "FWIW" and not meant to be a direct comparison between myself and AK.

So FWIW, I was 21, everyone was speaking United States English, I was not a "true-crime aficionado," and no, it wasn't my roommate who had been murdered--it was my child.

I could not even fathom what you have gone through. I do want you to know that I send many thoughts, prayers, and know that you have a very special angel looking over you always!!!

 

[wasnt_me]

My guess is they did look for bruises on AK and RS, if not medically, then certainly casually, but there were none. If there were, they would have used them as evidence of their participation in the attack. No bruises on either of them is extremely unlikely if the insane prosecution theory were true, so they choose to ignore this fact by never mentioning any examination or even casual note of the absence of bruises.

AK said she was not photographed until the night of declarations, which was at least 3 or 4 days after the murder. I have not heard evidence of bruising or scatches on her or RS. Just the hickie.

All people's bruises heal differently, but the only one with a slash on his hand, which they say is indicative of your hand slipping down in blood when you are stabbing someone is who?

Rudy G, and it was still on him when he was picked up.

 

[Allusonz]

This was the only part of this video I have ever seen posted of the re-enactment and it is of the rock being initially thrown and the speaking is in Italian so I have no idea what they are saying

http://video.sky.it/?videoID=28470121001#video

 

[Allusonz]

I want to clarify or GET clarification.

According to the testimony, there was a group of British friends that MK hung out with WHO LIVED in Perugia. These ones that lived in Perugia and I suppose were in school are the ones who talked about MK and Ak's relationship. They are the ones that AK was referring to when she said she hadn't done anything to them to make them speak badly of her. AK also said she didn't like to hang around the UK's beause they spoke english and AK had come to Italy to emerce herself in Italian.

Now, you are saying there is also a group of MK's friends that were in the UK the whole time and flew to italy after the murder to testify?

No. There was a group of UK students in Perugia studying. They flew home shortly after MK's murder and the prosecution brought them back to testify against AK and RS. Six or seven come to mind but please don't quote me on that number as it has been awhile since I have looked all that information over.

I myself have never put much faith in what they had to say as it is hearsay. I do not recall that any of them had any personal interaction with AK or RS except at the police station and it further shows how truly weak the prosecutions evidence was.

I would have to look over all this again as it is not something I ever believed proved guilt or innocence. It was simply information I picked up as I was researching this

 

[wasnt_me]

Okay, so these UK friends are just one group of friends, and it's the group that was in Perugia, flew home, then returned later. Thanks.

When people say they flew in, that's why i was thinking it was two sets of friends, one in the UK and one in Italy, but both british. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[flourish]

My guess is they did look for bruises on AK and RS, if not medically, then certainly casually, but there were none. If there were, they would have used them as evidence of their participation in the attack. No bruises on either of them is extremely unlikely if the insane prosecution theory were true, so they choose to ignore this fact by never mentioning any examination or even casual note of the absence of bruises.

AK and RS were stripped and given full medical examinations four days after the murder. Rudy was found two weeks after the murder with cuts on his hands.

So...was this a casual inspection for bruises or a strip-down inspection? Either of ya gotta link handy, perchance?

 

[flourish]

This was the only part of this video I have ever seen posted of the re-enactment and it is of the rock being initially thrown and the speaking is in Italian so I have no idea what they are saying

http://video.sky.it/?videoID=28470121001#video

For some reason I don't see any video on this...just a page that looks blank where I'm guessing the video would go...hmm....I'll check on another browser.

Also, FWIW, I'm totally reading the links you gave me earlier illowfight2:

:websleuther:

 

[wasnt_me]

I just read a theory on PMF. I don't know how much it holds water, but they were supposing that RG, RS, and AK got together to steal the plants from the boys downstairs, and MK somehow caught them.

They were thinking AK got the keys from MK somehow because she was watching the cat and watering the drugs.

Their scenerio is convoluted because they are trying to incorporate ALL the witnesses who heard screams, saw them at the square, the fact that RS or AK brought RS's kitchen knife, the whole nine.

I can't get with their theory of how it happened, but I was interested in their point about the drugs downstairs being attractive.

What if they did get together to do this, and while AK and RS were downstairs doing it, RG decided to crap upstairs, and MK freaked out when she saw him? He started fighting her and all that, and then AK and RS walked in on it?

 

[wasnt_me]

I found this quote from http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/02/amanda-diabolic-or-lost-in-translation.html

interesting:

manda calls everybody, Amanda calls Filomena and tells her that there was a theft in her room and some blood in the bathroom. Filomena, shopping at the Fiera dei Morti with Paola, is not worried for the blood, she thinks someone could be menstruating. But for the theft she's panicking. So much panicking that she has problems even in remembering where her car is parked. Better calling Marco and telling him to go there before her. Marco calls Luca, who has a car, and they drive there. In the house nobody is excessively worried.

this is the first time I've heard that FR came up with the menestrating story. If that's true, it falls in line with AK shaping her thoughts around what other people say, as we've been discussing that she seemed verly likely to do.

 

[miley]

*Sigh* It's my own fault for opening this :worms:I thought I made it clear that my sharing that was a "FWIW" and not meant to be a direct comparison between myself and AK.

So FWIW, I was 21, everyone was speaking United States English, I was not a "true-crime aficionado," and no, it wasn't my roommate who had been murdered--it was my child.

I'm so sorry Flourish. In a conversation you and Malkmus had, I remember you indicating that you had experienced something (unpleasant) that sort of reminded you of this case... but I never ever imagined - I don't even know what to say except I'm sorry.

 

[flourish]

Okay, I have read and watched the following things that were very graciously linked for me. Here are my thoughts in a very long post (fair warning): :dj:

From: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Meredith-Kercher-Trial-Amanda-Knox-Denies-Smashing-Window-To-Divert-Detectives/Article/200907115328274

But retired police forensic officer Vincenzo Pasquali will use a video and ballistic measurements to tell the court the window was smashed from the outside and was not simulated.

See, what's weird, is, at first I thought that AK and/or RS were accused of throwing the rock from the outside, and that just seems to make more sense in my head. If RG could throw a rock from the outside, and retired forensic man could throw a rock from the outside, why couldn't AK and/or RS throw a rock from the outside?

Yes, I know and understand that the prosecution and/or ILE suggest it was from the inside. I don't necessarily buy into their entire narrative on this and several other points of their case.

Among these was a burglary at a lawyer's office, in which he climbed through a window four and a half metres (15ft) above ground - higher than that smashed at the murder scene.

Does anyone know what, if anything, there was to stand on or use as leverage points on the wall of the lawyer's office?

Now on to: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529951,00.html

But retired police forensic officer Vincenzo Pasquali will use a video and ballistic measurements to tell the court the window was smashed from the outside and was not simulated.

:waitasec: That sounds eerily familiar...almost as though it's the same article as above...let me read more

Among these was a burglary at a lawyer's office, in which he climbed through a window 15 feet above ground — higher than that smashed at the murder scene.

Huh.

Click here to read more on this story from Sky News.

Ohhh.

Okay, now: http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7995762

Francesco Pasquali, a retired forensic police officer hired as a consultant by Sollecito's defense, presented a video in court that included three different scenarios showing how the rock could have been thrown from the outside to break the window, located 13 feet off the ground.

Well, it's not a complete repeat, so that's refreshing. Still...see above for my issue with the "outside" thing.

The "shutter issue" has been :deadhorse:, and I have no idea what is correct or not, so :dunno: there.


http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/07/

Lots of photos here, including the grate-standing one. But, dang it, there's nine photos and a video, none of which show the window entrance.
Was there a specific ban or seal on these photos/evidence and just the one got loose? You're right, wasn't_me, I do feel the need to see it...if the whole point of the experiment was to prove Mr. Fine Italian shoes could do, then let's see him do it!
:devil:

There's a link to the video that you linked for me earlier, Allusonz, and it works in my other browser...yep, there's a rock going through a window, but no human.

Okay, so http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/07/carabiniere-to-save-raffaele-sollecito.html

I'm not a physicist, not an engineer, the ex Carabiniere had to admit, and I never worked on a rock throw before, only on gun shots.

Okay, I remember otto talking about this...

The filmed reconstruction doesn't show measurements, and it's edited. So we have to trust the Marshall when he says that the rock was 4 Kilograms and the distance was 3 meters.

O k a y . They mention 3 other "weak" points in the experiment. Oh, but there's an explanation! Oh, right, it was the memories of people that was weak and all those dang shuffling feet that unknowingly kicked glass fragments from under things to on top of things?

And we finish with this:

In addiction to this the consultant remembered that a stain of presumed blood substance with a hair formation was found on the window, trying to suggest that the intruder injured himself against the latch. The chemical analysis didn't sort anything.

Is this a google translation or something? wth? In addiction? :giggle:


I do appreciate the links, Allusonz. :gthanks: