Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #11

[Allusonz]

I had actually come on to wish you all a Happy Easter thus to you all Happy Easter

 

[Nova]

So either we worry too quickly, or you're logged on so much that we get worried after such a short absence Or both, LOL :seeya:

Sadly, I'm afraid it's the latter. I should have just said "thank you for your concern." :loser:

 

[wasnt_me]

I am concerned that Guede's sentence was reduced to 16 years (some say in return for testimony against AK and RS) but he is also known to of had many accounts with respect to this murder and if I was a betting person the one thing that might not look well for him is the fact that he had 2 previous opportunities to testify against them and did not. His credibility at this point is worthless

Very helpful info, but zeroing in on this because I want him RG to testify. I hope AK and RS's lawyers are ready to tear to him shreds, because evidence will NOT support anything he says.

 

[Nova]

...We promise not to yell....there might be wine, in Perugia and terrific company though

I hope it was clear I was quoting AK's "gift" statement with the phrase, "Don't yell at me."

I found it very telling and very poignant. I think AK is innocent because I don't see the evidence of her guilt, not because I imagine I know her or feel emotionally involved with her. But the "Don't yell at me" in a statement regarding a murder got to me a little.

 

[wasnt_me]

Not 40 hours of interrogation but 40 hours of being present in the police station, sitting in the waiting room, doing home work, and being extremely bored until it is her turn to answer some questions.

So everyone that was questioned had to hang out for 40 hours at the police station?

 

[Nova]

IIRC there is not much different between the 1:45 and 5:45 statements. I could be wrong so will have to look over the 1:45 statement again. I had thought though that it was more at that point in time that she had named Patrick and her status was supposedly changed from that of witness to suspect thus they called in Mignini

I don't believe for a minute that the interrogation stopped at any point. The statements were typed in Italian and since we dont have any video/audio we can only go on testimony etc of which we know

I as well believe that this planned and from links that i have posted earlier as well as Malkmus they did consider her to be suspect prior to this. I as well believe that although they called RS in first that whether she had gone with RS or not she was going to be called in. Why else would you have 12 detectives waiting? I also believe that they had to get her to state something prior to the arrival of her mother on the 6th

I don't think there's any question AK was actually a suspect well before the Night of a Thousand Statements. We know from at least as far back as the original detectives on the O.J. Simpson murder trial that police invent reasons to delay declaring someone a "suspect" so that the rights accorded suspects by law don't kick in. And courts let them get away it.

And I agree with you and Steve Moore that the number of detectives present at midnight shows a conscious decision to "tag team" AK and RS.

 

[Nova]

I don't know but what is so strange about a night without food or water? She just had dinner anyway.

Well, it's different to go without food and water when one is asleep; one's metabolism functions differently. When one is awake for the same period, the body is more apt to respond with hunger and thirst.

But in general I agree that a lack of food and water weren't the primary factors in the coercion. By AK's own account, she was more upset by the yelling.

 

[Nova]

Not 40 hours of interrogation but 40 hours of being present in the police station, sitting in the waiting room, doing home work, and being extremely bored until it is her turn to answer some questions.

Personally, I would find all 40 of those hours stressful to varying degrees. Like AK, I lack experience in "hanging out" at police stations.

 

[wasnt_me]

I agree. I think they banked on the fact that AK would show up with RS, as they'd been inseparable since the murder, because she was so scared. If she didn't, I believe they would have called her in after having RS up for there for an hour or so. I don't think it would have mattered what RS said to them, I believe they planned on calling AK up there after separating the couple.

Know what I mean?

 

[Nova]

I agree. I think they banked on the fact that AK would show up with RS, as they'd been inseparable since the murder, because she was so scared. If she didn't, I believe they would have called her in after having RS up for there for an hour or so. I don't think it would have mattered what RS said to them, I believe they planned on calling AK up there after separating the couple.

Know what I mean?

Yes. And I agree.

 

[flourish]

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165

Ok, so lets say they got interrupted during their evening meal. Off they go the police station. RS gets questioned around 10:30pm? And gets coerced in an hour or so. That is no surprise. He is the weaker species after all...lol... Too bad he forgot to mention this 'coercion' in court. In the mean time, AK is doing some homework because that is what you do if you are exhausted after 40 hours of questioning in the previous days. Oh, and cartwheels at 11pm. I almost forgot those Then somewhere after 11pm, AK is being asked some questions, and before they start checking her phone a police officer comes over and says that RS is no longer covering for her. The nightmare begins.

Interrogated and coerced by 10 police offers simultaneously until about 1:45am when she had already mentioned Patrick, 'the real killer'. Not so strange if you realize she had been without any food or water for the whole 2 to 2 1/2 hours. By then they had to stop questioning her since she had become a suspect. Although of course the real suspect had then become Patrick Lumumba. AK can finally go pee-pee and get her water...phew.

I am not totally sure if it was on her own request or if the police wanted to know more about the 'real murderer' (Patrick), but at 3:30am AK had some more explaining to do. This was in the presence of Mignini. This resulted in the 5:45am statement and was longer (5 pages?) than the 1:45am statement. In the 5:45am statement she added that she was very frightened of Patrick. For some reason she never seemed very frightened of RG or even angry.



Ok then, they hadn't asked her yet. Makes sense :innocent: Also, in the 5:45am statement her 'dream' becomes suddenly very clear when they ask her the last time she met Patrick.



Say what? They asked her a question and she actually just told them the truth? See how that works?

The police now knew AK was present during the murder, and the real killer was still out there. They had to act fast. Little did they know the real murderer was sitting right there in front of them, and had them all fooled. A scary thought.

P.S. I know I wrote it in a sarcastic kinda way, but it is not funny at all. An innocent mans life got destroyed by a very selfish girl whose only intention was to divert the attention from her to someone else. Even in the weeks after, she never even bothered to make it clear that Patrick was innocent. Not a single judge/juror ever believed a word of the 'coercion' fairy tale. Ask Patrick Lumumba and see how he feels about AK. AK was convicted for one year in jail for the accusation of an innocent man. Not a minor issue.

Peace out. Justice for Meredith Kercher. The real victim.

All JMO

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:goodpost:

:cheer::cheer:

:highfive:

eace: :justice:

 

[SMK]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:goodpost:

:cheer::cheer:

:highfive:

eace: :justice:

So you believe they had the "real killer" there, in the form of the 20 year old girl???:waitasec:

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes. And I agree.

I also agree that they wanted some kind of reason to arrest AK before her mother got there. I believe that AK probably told ILE that her mom was trying to persuade her to go back to the USA. But, even if she didn't tell them, I'm sure they suspected that her mother was coming to get her. They wanted AK to stay in Italy, so they needed a reason to arrest her. That's why the interrogation wasn't taped. That's why she got hit. It was imparative for them to get AK to say something, be brainwashed into saying something, anything so they could make sure she remained in Italy while they continued to gather evidence.

 

[flourish]

So you believe they had the "real killer" there, in the form of the 20 year old girl???:waitasec:

I liked Sherlockh's post...I'm certainly allowed to appreciate an entire post without breaking down each little piece...but if you must know, I was mostly applauding his views regarding AK's false accusation as well as some of his ideas re: the police station interviews.

And hey...aren't you the one who said if the smilies are there, we can certainly use them?

Killers come in all sorts of forms...what does her being a 20-year old "girl" have to do with it exactly?

Oh, look! Here's Karla Homolka...why, she looks like a sweet young lady, she couldn't possibly have raped and killed her own sister and at least two other girls!

http://www.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/200505/160_homolka_050530.jpg

eace:

 

[Nova]

I also agree that they wanted some kind of reason to arrest AK before her mother got there. I believe that AK probably told ILE that her mom was trying to persuade her to go back to the USA. But, even if she didn't tell them, I'm sure they suspected that her mother was coming to get her. They wanted AK to stay in Italy, so they needed a reason to arrest her. That's why the interrogation wasn't taped. That's why she got hit. It was imparative for them to get AK to say something, be brainwashed into saying something, anything so they could make sure she remained in Italy while they continued to gather evidence.

Sounds right to me.

I've never known whether AK was actually struck, or just touched and it felt like a blow in that context. To me, she is telling us how it felt at the time and that is the point. Whether ILE committed what we usually call "police brutality," I don't know. AK doesn't claim she was injured, just intimidated.

 

[SMK]

I liked Sherlockh's post...I'm certainly allowed to appreciate an entire post without breaking down each little piece...but if you must know, I was mostly applauding his views regarding AK's false accusation as well as some of his ideas re: the police station interviews.

And hey...aren't you the one who said if the smilies are there, we can certainly use them?

Killers come in all sorts of forms...what does her being a 20-year old "girl" have to do with it exactly?

Oh, look! Here's Karla Homolka...why, she looks like a sweet young lady, she couldn't possibly have raped and killed her own sister and at least two other girls!

http://www.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/200505/160_homolka_050530.jpg

eace:

1. I was only asking a question.
2. I think Karla looks like a real psycho.
3. I meant this particular 20 year old.
4. :razz:

 

[SMK]

PS @ flourish:Just kidding!!!:floorlaugh:

 

[SMK]

Sounds right to me.

I've never known whether AK was actually struck, or just touched and it felt like a blow in that context. To me, she is telling us how it felt at the time and that is the point. Whether ILE committed what we usually call "police brutality," I don't know. AK doesn't claim she was injured, just intimidated.

Amanda testified in court that she was struck several times on the back of the head. (Coming from a large Italian family, I sure do remember that as a kid!) She never went over the top about it, and always said they were frustrated, and she in part understood it, but it bothered her. I believe she is telling the truth.

 

[Nova]

I liked Sherlockh's post...I'm certainly allowed to appreciate an entire post without breaking down each little piece...but if you must know, I was mostly applauding his views regarding AK's false accusation as well as some of his ideas re: the police station interviews.

And hey...aren't you the one who said if the smilies are there, we can certainly use them?

Of course you are entitled to applaud and use smilies as you like. I'm not responding to that part of your post.

Killers come in all sorts of forms...what does her being a 20-year old "girl" have to do with it exactly?

Oh, look! Here's Karla Homolka...why, she looks like a sweet young lady, she couldn't possibly have raped and killed her own sister and at least two other girls!....

This reminds me of that sliver of space between "beyond reasonable doubt" and "beyond all conceivable doubt." Of course, a 20-year-old girl being involved in this crime is not beyond the realm of all possibility.

But her age and gender are only part of the equation. Other parts include the facts that:

1. She has no history suggesting a propensity for this type of crime. A few practical jokes do not a crazed sex killer make. (Even Mignini seems to recognized this, as he gets vaguer and vaguer when trying to explain how the "prank" got "out of control.") AK has no history of violence, gang affiliation or even long-running feuds with other girls.

2. She barely knew one of her alleged conspirators (RG), having met him briefly once and seen him around town a couple of times.

3. She'd only known the other alleged conspirator (RS) for about a week. This is where the comparison to Karla Homolka falls apart. Moreover, in the cases of thrill-killing couples I can think of, the male always takes the dominant role, at least in terms of public performance. The AK/RS bond is supposed to be the opposite. Possible? Perhaps. Likely? Of course not.

4. She and her alleged conspirators didn't share fluency in any language.

5. She and RS had little if any time to form the conspiracy with RG.

6. AK managed to do a "magical" clean up in which she removes almost all traces of herself and RS from the crime scene (and all traces from RS' apartment except the magically discovered knife), yet leaves large amounts of RG's DNA.

7. The attempts to show AK's "consciousness of guilt" are laughable. She did cartwheels? She got upset looking at knives after her friends was stabbed to death? Give me a break. The fact is she didn't run, she stayed and aided the investigation.

8. Perugia LE and court system have demonstrated their incompetence every step of the way.

And yet the Italian courts paint AK not just as a foolish bystander caught up in something she didn't expect, but as some sort of ringleader of the conspiracy. IIRC, RG's sentence was reduced in part because the court ruled he hadn't delivered the death blow. How the hell can the court possibly know that? It can't, of course. It's just as determined as ILE and English tabloids to paint AK as the fount of all that is evil.

 

[Nova]

Amanda testified in court that she was struck several times on the back of the head. (Coming from a large Italian family, I sure do remember that as a kid!) She never went over the top about it, and always said they were frustrated, and she in part understood it, but it bothered her. I believe she is telling the truth.

I defer to your knowledge of Italian families. I also think AK is telling the truth as she remembers it. My point was that I don't know whether it literally happened (as we picture it in the retelling) or just felt as if it had happened, and to me it doesn't matter.