Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #11

[Nova]

But this is why I politely said that I was guessing at a theory, and that I didn't have all the links or answers, because I'm crossing over to the other side to theorize about the crime from a more guilty viewpoint. I stated that I couldn't answer any questions anyone might have about the theory because I was still formulating it. I hoped saying all that would prevent other posters from pressing me to uphold a theory that is not complete and in the end, might not be viable. So I'm confused as to why I'm not being asked the questions.

I understood you were speculating and thought I responded in kind.

If that isn't what you wanted, I apologize. I misunderstood how you wanted us to react to your hypothesis.

 

[wasnt_me]

Thanks. Notice the tow truck driver got to the cottage at 11, so now if the dark car belonged to RS, then AK, RS and RG had to meet, conspire, rape and kill MK, get the car and drive it to the cottage--all within an hour and 15 minutes.

Yes, but him seeing the car doesn't tell how long it has been there. It could have reasonably pulled up right before he got there.

That might not line up with the theory I was concocting, but it's still true. They could have arrived there themselves at anytime before the truck driver saw the car at 11pm, as he states.

 

[SMK]

It seems that the only possibilities are:
1. AK, RS, and RG all had a part in killing MK - not believable to many, and evidence very weak for many
2. AK and RS had NO involvement in anything - equally not believable to many
3. AK and RS had minimal involvement, and from some reason have preferred to seem 100% innocent, even at the risk of conviction, rather than admit it.

I cannot think of a 4th , can anyone?

 

[jjenny]

It seems that the only possibilities are:
1. AK, RS, and RG all had a part in killing MK - not believable to many, and evidence very weak for many
2. AK and RS had NO involvement in anything - equally not believable to many
3. AK and RS had minimal involvement, and from some reason have preferred to seem 100% innocent, even at the risk of conviction, rather than admit it.

I cannot think of a 4th , can anyone?

Unfortunately, I don't think we will never know what actually happened.

 

[wasnt_me]

I understood you were speculating and thought I responded in kind.

If that isn't what you wanted, I apologize. I misunderstood how you wanted us to react to your hypothesis.

It's okay. I don't perceive you as questioning it. I perceive you as responding to it. I got questions directed at me from others. They could have been just questions, but I perceived them as questions that were meant to challenge me and tell me I'm "talking nonsense." I really, seriously got offended that by "nonesense" comment in the other thread. I don't think we should talk to each other that way.

So I'm a bit touchy on that.

 

[claudicici]

To me #3 is by far the most believable possibility,it's the only one that makes sense to me.
The question that remains for me is why not admit the truth?
....and that's what keeps me leading back to,because they honestly do not remember because they were wasted.I keep going back to Xanax because it would fit IMO,but why wouldn't they admit to taking that?
I just doubt the pot made them so high that they blacked out and felt responsible enough for a murder that they would not tell?Yet that's what they both claim,that's the drug they blame their memory loss on....
Another drug that comes to mind is rufi's ?

 

[Nova]

Oh, my phone can be off while charging. That's frequently how I know it needs charging, because it goes dead. Then I plug it up. I have to physically turn it on later, but as its charging, it has a battery icon showing, only. It cannot receive calls unless I press the on button hard....

I thought your original statement was that their phones would have to be off to recharge; I merely said that isn't true of our phones. They can take calls while charging. I've never tried answering one without unplugging it (not in a convenient place), but that's another matter.

(ETA I see the problem: you wrote "a cell phone can't be on 24/7 without recharging" and meant that a cell phone had to be recharged at some point. I read the same phrase as to mean a cell phone can't stay on, it must be turned off in order to recharge, which isn't true. My bad.)

 

[Nova]

Thanks. I agree. maybe they compounded the error by not calling and police and assumed that would make them responsible. Maybe it's a weak theory after all, but I'm really just trying to see the other side somehow. But I cannot see this outright murder and sex thing by the three of them. That is what makes the least sense to me. Actually, RG's story makes more sense to me than that sex game gone wrong theory.

I wasn't directing the statements at you. I just feel that someone will come in here and tell me how it's "nonesense" again, so I want to make sure everyone understands that I'm not asserting this stuff as fact.

I agree that almost anything makes more sense than the sex-games-gone-wrong theory.

Frankly, I'm at the point where despite the problems with breaking in through FR's window, the burglar-surprised-on-the-loo theory makes more sense than anything else.

 

[Nova]

Yes, but him seeing the car doesn't tell how long it has been there. It could have reasonably pulled up right before he got there.

That might not line up with the theory I was concocting, but it's still true. They could have arrived there themselves at anytime before the truck driver saw the car at 11pm, as he states.

I wasn't relating the "dark car" to the hypothesis you are constructing.

I was just pointing out that if we believe that dark car to be RS', then that's one more thing AK and RS had to do in the very short window between 9:46, when they finished watching the anime, and 11, when the car was first seen.

At this point, I really don't think AK and RS had time to participate in the murder. I think they were at RS' apartment until at least 9:46 and MK was already dead by the time her phone pinged off the distant tower at 10:15.

 

[Nova]

It seems that the only possibilities are:
1. AK, RS, and RG all had a part in killing MK - not believable to many, and evidence very weak for many
2. AK and RS had NO involvement in anything - equally not believable to many
3. AK and RS had minimal involvement, and from some reason have preferred to seem 100% innocent, even at the risk of conviction, rather than admit it.

I cannot think of a 4th , can anyone?

I didn't think of it, but you and others have discussed the possibility that RG had some other, unnamed accomplice.

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes, that's reasonable, Nova. The car could have arrived at about 10pm, startling RG, but AK and RS would then have been at the place for an hour. I'm not sure what they would have been doing all that time, unless they did go up to the square where the homeless guy saw them, because they were scared of what was in the house, or trying to figure out what to do about it.

I am frankly stuck on the why not call the police, because I am, like many of you a logical person. It's hard for me to imagine the illogical, possibly drugged out response.

 

[wasnt_me]

My theory about the unnamed accomplice went something like RG met the dude in the square, they went to the house and waited. Perhaps pushed their way in. RG's story turns out to be partially true as his accomplice is surprised and attacks MK. RG feels he has to help at this point. Then the accomplice says that it's on RG because he's the black guy, so they stage the break-in.

Either that, or the RG and the accomplice used each other as a ladder to get to the window and get in. This is why there's little marks on the wall. In this scenerio, whomever climbed in, could have carried the rock up to knock break the glass, hitting the inner shutter and then tossed the rock off to the side.

If it was RG, he could have let the accomplish in, and then went to the bathroom. MK arrives, and all things go very badly.

Hopefully, the jury had more to go on than we do, because I just can't see making a determination off this evidence.

 

[SMK]

To me #3 is by far the most believable possibility,it's the only one that makes sense to me.
The question that remains for me is why not admit the truth?
....and that's what keeps me leading back to,because they honestly do not remember because they were wasted.I keep going back to Xanax because it would fit IMO,but why wouldn't they admit to taking that?
I just doubt the pot made them so high that they blacked out and felt responsible enough for a murder that they would not tell?Yet that's what they both claim,that's the drug they blame their memory loss on....
Another drug that comes to mind is rufi's ?

Yes, there may be some truth to this.....

 

[Nova]

Yes, that's reasonable, Nova. The car could have arrived at about 10pm, startling RG, but AK and RS would then have been at the place for an hour. I'm not sure what they would have been doing all that time, unless they did go up to the square where the homeless guy saw them, because they were scared of what was in the house, or trying to figure out what to do about it.

I am frankly stuck on the why not call the police, because I am, like many of you a logical person. It's hard for me to imagine the illogical, possibly drugged out response.

You may be right, but my point wasn't that they had an hour to hang out at the cottage, it was that they only had 75 minutes at most to meet RG, decide to kill--or at least prank--MK, and rape and kill her AND also get the car and drive it to the cottage.

We had been discussing that AK and RS really didn't have time to commit the murder. Assuming the "dark car" was RS' only makes that short window of time even busier.

***

The only reason I see drug use keeping someone from call the police would be if the penalty for drug use were so steep, the witness was too scared of LE. But we know the penalties for personal drug use in Italy are minimal; certainly not enough to inspire one to obstruct justice and tamper with evidence.

 

[SMK]

I didn't think of it, but you and others have discussed the possibility that RG had some other, unnamed accomplice.

Yes, but it never fleshes out. so I guess it doesn't seem to hold water as a theory. But true, we did discuss this possibility. I agree that Hendry's idea of Guede breaking and entering, and assuming no one is home, and leisurely taking a toilet break, only to hear MK coming in , is the simplest which seems to cover the facts. But poor Hendry is disbelieved. Not by all, but by many, and I did some press for him, and know that people are closed off to interviewing him. Unfair, because I think his theory is just stunning in its conciseness and its simple factual comprehensiveness. Hendry has what they call "simple genius".

 

[wasnt_me]

You may be right, but my point wasn't that they had an hour to hang out at the cottage, it was that they only had 75 minutes at most to meet RG, decide to kill--or at least prank--MK, and rape and kill her AND also get the car and drive it to the cottage.

We had been discussing that AK and RS really didn't have time to commit the murder. Assuming the "dark car" was RS' only makes that short window of time even busier.

***

The only reason I see drug use keeping someone from call the police would be if the penalty for drug use were so steep, the witness was too scared of LE. But we know the penalties for personal drug use in Italy are minimal; certainly not enough to inspire one to obstruct justice and tamper with evidence.

Sorry, I was still on the theory of their hybrid involvement in the crime. But yes, if they will agree that the time of death of earlier, then this is true. However, I think I read an article saying that the appeals court will not move it. I want to say it was from Miley's article on page one of this thread.

I was thinking they were too drugged out of their rational minds to call.

 

[Nova]

Yes, but it never fleshes out. so I guess it doesn't seem to hold water as a theory. But true, we did discuss this possibility. I agree that Hendry's idea of Guede breaking and entering, and assuming no one is home, and leisurely taking a toilet break, only to hear MK coming in , is the simplest which seems to cover the facts. But poor Hendry is disbelieved. Not by all, but by many, and I did some press for him, and know that people are closed off to interviewing him. Unfair, because I think his theory is just stunning in its conciseness and its simple factual comprehensiveness. Hendry has what they call "simple genius".

Indeed, he does. And since all of the fantastic theories of this case require enormous leaps of faith, I rather think Hendry's simple account is the most probable.

 

[wasnt_me]

This is in the motivation statement, page 381.


the statements of Giampaolo Lombardo who testified that he had arrived at about 23,00 pm with the tow truck after a phone call received at about 22.30 pm, and had loaded the broken-down car and left again at about 23.15 pm: hearing of 27 March 2009).

 

[wasnt_me]

Here is the knife man's story, but somewhere along the lines, it changed to happening the night of the murder. I have to find it, but this story says it happened on Halloween.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ife-day-Meredith-murder-says-new-witness.html

Okay, this article says he doesn't specify if this encounter was the night of the murder, but I read somewhere, a different story. I gotta find it:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,511236,00.html

I have to note, the motivations report dismisses Hekuran Kokomani (olive thrower) and Fabio Gioffredi (who said he saw the threesome together also).

 

[Nova]

Sorry, I was still on the theory of their hybrid involvement in the crime. But yes, if they will agree that the time of death of earlier, then this is true. However, I think I read an article saying that the appeals court will not move it. I want to say it was from Miley's article on page one of this thread.

I was thinking they were too drugged out of their rational minds to call.

Too drugged to call, I can believe (particularly of AK, who may have never used the 112 emergency number). But too drugged to scream and wake the neighbors? How did they manage to walk?