Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12

[wasnt_me]

Wow, that cell phone testing post was serious, but fascinating. I read it twice and still don't know if I understood it all.

But in the end, the defense, who seems to have done a better job investigating, determined that ALL of the prosecution's data was off in regard to the cell towers or just the call of 10:13pm? Where can I see the defense's report? I want to know their findings on all the calls, since their tests were more extensive.

 

[wasnt_me]

What I really want is a good translation of RG's trial or appeal. I can barely read the report translated from google.

 

[Nova]

I have some problems with AK and RS's story. I've always said that, but overwhelming evidence tells me that, whatever they were doing, those two were not in the murder room at the time of the murder.

I now have some problems with PL's story. At first, I took it all at face value that AK named him for no reason, that his phone cell tower was misnamed. Now to hear that he ALSO had some false story about that night....

Well, now he comes under suspicion for me, too. There is unknown DNA in the murder room and a couple who seemed credible said they saw a black man running that night, but turns out they wouldn't say that it was RG. I would still have a problem placing PL in the murder room for the same reaosn I cannot place AK and RS, but I'm just saying PL's story is shady, even if he didn't have anything to do with it.

I also think FR is shady, so it's nothing new that I suspect everyone involved of something, lying, whatever. No one is above any kind of suspicion for me. I just have to figure out if their lies or whatever they were doing at the time was significant to the case. For example, Maybe PL IS shady, but it's because he was cheating on his wife, which has no bearing on the case. So IF he was doing that and it caused him to act shady, then that's why he's shady. Do I make sense? I'm not saying he was doing that, just giving an example of why people would be shady and have nothing to do with the murder.

PL's concession seems awfully minor to merit much suspicion. And somehow I think if there were any way for Perugia police to have pinned the murder on him--even as just one of the conspirators--they would have done so to save face.

 

[flourish]

I have some problems with AK and RS's story. I've always said that, but overwhelming evidence tells me that, whatever they were doing, those two were not in the murder room at the time of the murder.

I now have some problems with PL's story. At first, I took it all at face value that AK named him for no reason, that his phone cell tower was misnamed. Now to hear that he ALSO had some false story about that night....

Well, now he comes under suspicion for me, too. There is unknown DNA in the murder room and a couple who seemed credible said they saw a black man running that night, but turns out they wouldn't say that it was RG. I would still have a problem placing PL in the murder room for the same reaosn I cannot place AK and RS, but I'm just saying PL's story is shady, even if he didn't have anything to do with it.

I also think FR is shady, so it's nothing new that I suspect everyone involved of something, lying, whatever. No one is above any kind of suspicion for me. I just have to figure out if their lies or whatever they were doing at the time was significant to the case. For example, Maybe PL IS shady, but it's because he was cheating on his wife, which has no bearing on the case. So IF he was doing that and it caused him to act shady, then that's why he's shady. Do I make sense? I'm not saying he was doing that, just giving an example of why people would be shady and have nothing to do with the murder.

Wow, so...I'm not understanding why it's okay to say these people are "shady" (FR and PL). What did FR do? Actually, don't tell me, because it is none of my business and has no bearing on the murder case.

I guess I just wanted to express my....concern regarding speaking ill of innocent bystanders/already falsely accused and cleared people, etc. What does PL ALLEGEDLY cheating on his wife have to do with murder? As you stated above, nothing! I had no idea there were allegations of that sort about him, and now I do...and again, there's no reason for me to need to know that--it's none of my business.

I'm not sure exactly where the WS TOS stands on this, but perhaps we need to use some extra effort and discretion when discussing people who either have never been suspects in this case, or were only suspects because AK lied.

:twocents:

*Sigh*
eace:

:escape:

 

[miley]

wait, I'm confused...

I wasn't implying that Patrick was involved - I was drawing a comparison between their interrogations... in other words, Amanda and Patrick went through some very intense questioning (so intense) both of them broke down and merely said what the police wanted to hear...

I understand the 'everyone's a suspect' approach but Patrick has been completely exonerated.. he had witnesses from the bar, his dna didn't match, no fingerprints... (the thing about him having affairs was a ploy to make him look bad, it wasn't true)

Maybe the police were looking for a black man because of what the couple walking said and since he and Amanda had been texting the night before...

 

[flourish]

wait, I'm confused...

I wasn't implying that Patrick was involved - I was drawing a comparison between their interrogations... in other words, Amanda and Patrick went through some very intense questioning (so intense) both of them broke down and merely said what the police wanted to hear...

I understand the 'everyone's a suspect' approach but Patrick has been completely exonerated.. he had witnesses from the bar, his dna didn't match, no fingerprints... (the thing about him having affairs was a ploy to make him look bad, it wasn't true)

Maybe the police were looking for a black man because of what the couple walking said and since he and Amanda had been texting the night before...

Miley, I realize you weren't saying that...I just cracked a semi-serious, semi-silly about how it seems like everyone in Italy falsely confesses so maybe Mignnini did, too...and that led to some discussion regarding various "sketchiness" of witnesses....I'd hoped I was clear, but it won't be the first time that something sounded right in my head but came out weird. I apologize if I implied that about you

And thank you for the clarification re: Patrick and his marriage status and the confirmation that he has indeed been exonerated.

 

[Nova]

I have no reason to suspect PL or FR and have been careful not to cast aspersions on their characters.

But as others have pointed out, FR has roughly the same alibi as AK: she was in town, but spent the night at her boyfriend's place. The differences are twofold:

1. She didn't get to the cottage the following day to take a shower before the break-in was discovered. But on the other hand, it was her room that was tossed (but not robbed) and she moved evidence around in her room before the carabinieri could fully photograph and investigate the contents.

2. She wasn't the almost immediate focus of the entire police investigation because of some way she allegedly moved her hips. Thus, she wasn't tag-teamed by interrogators and didn't "buckle" under pressure. Would she have done so? We'll never know.

Do I think FR had anything to do with MK's death? I do not. But it's important to remember that--with the exception of the coerced statement--the evidence against FR isn't that different from the evidence against AK. Are they both guilty? Surely not.

So maybe they are both innocent.

***

As for Lumumba, I assume he was thoroughly checked out by ILE. Even given the latter's incompetence, I just don't see how he could have been involved. He had no way of knowing who would be home that night and--since he gave AK the night off--he had every reason to suspect that AK and RS might be there ALONG WITH MK and one or both Italian girls plus any number of boyfriends. Not a great candidate for an early evening burglary.

 

[SMK]

I have no reason to suspect PL or FR and have been careful not to cast aspersions on their characters.

But as others have pointed out, FR has roughly the same alibi as AK: she was in town, but spent the night at her boyfriend's place. The differences are twofold:

1. She didn't get to the cottage the following day to take a shower before the break-in was discovered. But on the other hand, it was her room that was tossed (but not robbed) and she moved evidence around in her room before the carabinieri could fully photograph and investigate the contents.

2. She wasn't the almost immediate focus of the entire police investigation because of some way she allegedly moved her hips. Thus, she wasn't tag-teamed by interrogators and didn't "buckle" under pressure. Would she have done so? We'll never know.

Do I think FR had anything to do with MK's death? I do not. But it's important to remember that--with the exception of the coerced statement--the evidence against FR isn't that different from the evidence against AK. Are they both guilty? Surely not.

So maybe they are both innocent.

***

As for Lumumba, I assume he was thoroughly checked out by ILE. Even given the latter's incompetence, I just don't see how he could have been involved. He had no way of knowing who would be home that night and--since he gave AK the night off--he had every reason to suspect that AK and RS might be there ALONG WITH MK and one or both Italian girls plus any number of boyfriends. Not a great candidate for an early evening burglary.

Well said. Very succinctly said. It has been pointed out that when Filomina said she did not know Guede, and was sure Meredith did not know Guede, it was instantly believed. When Knox and Sollecito said the same, it was viewed as a lie from the get go. And yes, Filomina's alibi is the same as Knox's - away with her boyfriend all night. I am with you, brother: It does not point to FR's guilt but mayhap to AK and RS's innocence? :waitasec:

 

[wasnt_me]

***

As for Lumumba, I assume he was thoroughly checked out by ILE. Even given the latter's incompetence, I just don't see how he could have been involved. He had no way of knowing who would be home that night and--since he gave AK the night off--he had every reason to suspect that AK and RS might be there ALONG WITH MK and one or both Italian girls plus any number of boyfriends. Not a great candidate for an early evening burglary.

I've got a totally different take on this, but if I'm going to be attacked for re-including a person who was once a suspect, then I will just drop it. It's a shame, though, that I can't do simple speculation on someone who WAS under investigation. I don't see why the Webslueth's TOS would disagree with that, but it's not even worth it.

Not directed at you personally, Nova. I was asked for clarification on my opinion, in a sarcastic way, and when I gave it, I got berated. Again, not directed at you, just my feeling after reading all the replies between my explanation and your post. I just so happened to respond to your post because I do believe there's another way to look at PL, esp since he mentioned that he did see MK on Halloween night. He asked her to bartend for him. Who knows what she told him about who'd be at the house or where Ak spent most her time. In fact, for the past week, AK spent most of her time with RS. It's not unreasonable for MK to have said that to PL. I believe that they spent most nights at RS's since they'd met. So it's not unreasonable that PL could have known that. It's not unreasonable that MK could have actually invited pl to the house to test her drinks, either. Ak could have walked in on PL being there innocently but assumed it was something else going on. Then, after PL leaves, RG could have broken in. just saying....this could have led to her accusing him. who knows.

 

[Nova]

I've got a totally different take on this, but if I'm going to be attacked for re-including a person who was once a suspect, then I will just drop it. It's a shame, though, that I can't do simple speculation on someone who WAS under investigation. I don't see why the Webslueth's TOS would disagree with that, but it's not even worth it.

Not directed at you personally, Nova. I was asked for clarification on my opinion, in a sarcastic way, and when I gave it, I got berated. Again, not directed at you, just my feeling after reading all the replies between my explanation and your post. I just so happened to respond to your post because I do believe there's another way to look at PL, esp since he mentioned that he did see MK on Halloween night. He asked her to bartend for him. Who knows what she told him about who'd be at the house or where Ak spent most her time. In fact, for the past week, AK spent most of her time with RS. It's not unreasonable for MK to have said that to PL. I believe that they spent most nights at RS's since they'd met. So it's not unreasonable that PL could have known that. It's not unreasonable that MK could have actually invited pl to the house to test her drinks, either. Ak could have walked in on PL being there innocently but assumed it was something else going on. Then, after PL leaves, RG could have broken in. just saying....this could have led to her accusing him. who knows.

I knew you weren't attacking me and I assume you know I wasn't attacking you. I'm not sure what the rules are here about speculations concerning non-suspects at the periphery of trials.

In my view, we're all back-fence gossips, chatting over the bits and pieces of info we get. I don't take anything said here so seriously as to think it actually reflects poorly on real people.

My problem with a PL scenario is that I have to think Perugia LE searched high and low for any trace of PL in that cottage--and found none. So unless PL was involved from a distance, say, providing info on who would be home and who wouldn't (and I don't see how he would know that), I don't see how he could be involved.

I certainly don't find his "white lie" acceding to LE about the text messages means anything. I think it's clear the sort of tactics used by ILE in this case. I suspect any of us would have agreed to some things.

 

[SMK]

I agree. There is no harm in people like us speculating, because we are not the press and not LE and really have no bearing on anything. But to my thinking, the lone wolf scenario is the one which covers the real facts. I think if Amanda had actually seen Patrick at the cottage - in reality, not in a police-induced "vision" - she would say so, and hold to it.

 

[OldSteve]

I have no reason to suspect PL or FR and have been careful not to cast aspersions on their characters.

But as others have pointed out, FR has roughly the same alibi as AK: she was in town, but spent the night at her boyfriend's place. The differences are twofold:

1. She didn't get to the cottage the following day to take a shower before the break-in was discovered. But on the other hand, it was her room that was tossed (but not robbed) and she moved evidence around in her room before the carabinieri could fully photograph and investigate the contents.

2. She wasn't the almost immediate focus of the entire police investigation because of some way she allegedly moved her hips. Thus, she wasn't tag-teamed by interrogators and didn't "buckle" under pressure. Would she have done so? We'll never know.

Do I think FR had anything to do with MK's death? I do not. But it's important to remember that--with the exception of the coerced statement--the evidence against FR isn't that different from the evidence against AK. Are they both guilty? Surely not.

So maybe they are both innocent.

***

As for Lumumba, I assume he was thoroughly checked out by ILE. Even given the latter's incompetence, I just don't see how he could have been involved. He had no way of knowing who would be home that night and--since he gave AK the night off--he had every reason to suspect that AK and RS might be there ALONG WITH MK and one or both Italian girls plus any number of boyfriends. Not a great candidate for an early evening burglary.

Wow- really good points!

Here's a question I've wondered about - did any of AK's flatmates ever visit her in prison? Did any ever show any sort of sympathy to her plight?

 

[SMK]

Wow- really good points!

Here's a question I've wondered about - did any of AK's flatmates ever visit her in prison? Did any ever show any sort of sympathy to her plight?

I agree those are excellent points. And no, I do not think there is anything in the media about any of her flatmates visiting her, or even writing her. I could be wrong, but I have yet to see anything. From what I know, they seemed to turn on her, permanently. If anyone knows differently, I would also be interested in hearing about it.

 

[SMK]

You know, I actually did an extensive Google search about whether Filomina or Laura had written or visited Knox in jail, or expressed any sympathy. I could find nothing at all about it, so I am assuming they believe she is guilty and want no part of her. There is also no mention of them RE if the conviction should be overturned.

 

[Nova]

Wow- really good points!

Here's a question I've wondered about - did any of AK's flatmates ever visit her in prison? Did any ever show any sort of sympathy to her plight?

Thanks. I don't know if the roommates ever visited AK, but my general sense is that LE almost immediately began a concerted effort to turn the Italian girls against their American flatmate. This may be standard police procedure when you have multiple, unrelated persons living together with a murder victim. I don't know.

But given the media accounts and testimony re minor roommate conflicts, it seems ILE was quick to exploit and inflate every hint of conflict. That alone may have turned the Italian girls against AK.

 

[SMK]

Thanks. I don't know if the roommates ever visited AK, but my general sense is that LE almost immediately began a concerted effort to turn the Italian girls against their American flatmate. This may be standard police procedure when you have multiple, unrelated persons living together with a murder victim. I don't know.

But given the media accounts and testimony re minor roommate conflicts, it seems ILE was quick to exploit and inflate every hint of conflict. That alone may have turned the Italian girls against AK.

Good point. Very likely. You know, in doing my Google search, a whole bunch of old articles from 2007-08 came up, and I am just stunned - sickened, really - at how exploitative the media was with Amanda. Kept coming across headlines such as "Foxy Knoxy Had Sex on Her Mind Constantly" and "Foxy Knoxy Had Vibrator at Murder Scene" and on and on ad nauseum. I know this kind of thing is par for the course to a certain extent, but imagine being Amanda, and having such crap said about you as you await trial on murder charges.

 

[miley]

Miley, I realize you weren't saying that...I just cracked a semi-serious, semi-silly about how it seems like everyone in Italy falsely confesses so maybe Mignnini did, too...and that led to some discussion regarding various "sketchiness" of witnesses....I'd hoped I was clear, but it won't be the first time that something sounded right in my head but came out weird. I apologize if I implied that about you

And thank you for the clarification re: Patrick and his marriage status and the confirmation that he has indeed been exonerated.

I understand... I thought I might have given the wrong idea so I wanted to clarify.


Out of curiosity though, what do you think about Mignini, do you think he's been given a raw deal?

 

[Allusonz]

Most respectfully snipped, for space and emphasis.
So, Patrick allegedly falsely confessed to something, too...huh....perhaps Mignini was coerced, too. Perhaps we should go ahead and give him the benefit of the doubt.

:innocent:

FACT: PL stated that he had switched sim cards. (which later turned out to be false) Miley said nothing more or nothing less

 

[Allusonz]

How disturbing. Are you pulling an Amanda and accusing Patrick of something??? Is there anything to base it on besides his "lame" excuse...I mean, so many people are willing to overlook AK's massive amounts of "lame" excuses...and Patrick's the suspicious one?

Wow, I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone or something :ufo:

BBM

I would certainly love to hear the massive amounts of "lame excuses" AK has stated

Considering she has been in jail for 3 1/2 years, never spoken to the press that I am personally aware of, there was her testimony and statements as well as her very private leaked diary after being told she was HIV positive

I gather you are well off the fence with feet firmly planted as of now :giggle:

 

[SMK]

I understand... I thought I might have given the wrong idea so I wanted to clarify.


Out of curiosity though, what do you think about Mignini, do you think he's been given a raw deal?

I know you are awaiting Flourish's reply, but I just wanted to say that from all I have read about him, Mignini is a very interesting, very driven man, who has a classical Catholic philosophy. Does not make right what he does, but I guess IMO he is more than just a boor.