Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12

[flourish]

flourish, I swear I'm not trying to strong-arm you and I don't expect you to agree suddenly because of the point I'm about to make.

Of course I don't have a transcript or video, but based on similar cases, I will bet that AK was being told something to the effect of "We have indisputable proof PL killed her, we just need you to confirm that you saw him there."

So under pressure it doesn't come to seem like accusing an innocent man, it seems like a minor lie that merely adds to the "irrefutable" evidence the police already have. In other words, it is presented to the interrogation target as accusing a GUILTY man, not an innocent one.

Nova, thank you for your input-- I don't feel strong-armed at all After all, I'm a straitjacket-wearing He//-raiser! (see above photo LOL)

See you guys, I'm actually a reasonable person after all! :innocent:

Really, though, despite how much this thread makes me :crazy:ullhair:, and I don't really love the :slapfighteven when I'm totally a part of it), ya'll do make me do a lot of :waitasec:, and perhaps one day I'll actually :fencefall:

eace:
:escape:

 

[miley]

I really don't know enough about the Mignini issues to say whether or not he's been given a raw deal. I was just pointing out that I found it interesting that PL had allegedly said he did something that he didn't do (switch sim card), and AK has allegedly said she did things that she didn't (sit in her kitchen covering her ears against MK's screams, etc.) so I was semi-facetiously suggesting that perhaps Mignini had also been coerced into saying he did something he didn't do, since that seemed to be the "trend" (people saying they did things that the didn't do).

Are you referring to his outside legal troubles?

do you believe that there are some odd but true similarities between AK/PL interrogations? .. I guess I'm trying to figure out what you were being (semi) facetious about. (confused)

 

[Nova]

Nova, thank you for your input-- I don't feel strong-armed at all After all, I'm a straitjacket-wearing He//-raiser! (see above photo LOL)

See you guys, I'm actually a reasonable person after all! :innocent:

Really, though, despite how much this thread makes me :crazy:ullhair:, and I don't really love the :slapfighteven when I'm totally a part of it), ya'll do make me do a lot of :waitasec:, and perhaps one day I'll actually :fencefall:

eace:
:escape:

I don't have your skill with emoticons, but believe me, I didn't mean to imply that I imagine I have the power to browbeat you into one opinion or another.

It's just that the back and forth here sometimes seems relentless.

And I just wanted to add a thought...

 

[Nova]

Are you referring to his outside legal troubles?

do you believe that there are some odd but true similarities between AK/PL interrogations? .. I guess I'm trying to figure out what you were being (semi) facetious about. (confused)

Her Mignini reference wasn't to his troubles with the other case.

She was making a joke along the lines of "maybe EVERYBODY in the room, including the prosecutor, was coerced!" It was funny in context, because in addition to AK and RS, someone had just added PL to the list of those making false statements. So it was one of those "Maybe it would be easier if we make a list of who was NOT coerced..." comments.

 

[wasnt_me]

@ wasnt_me I agree all of this should be taken into consideration. I guess I always assumed that Guede alone should be suspected, when I found the evidence against Knox and Sollecito and the whole sex game gone wrong theory was full of holes. But in your own opinion, do you believe it is possible that Filomina was involved? Through drugs, etc.? Or was she simply quick to point the finger at Knox because Knox was "the odd girl out"? You are not the first person - indeed there have been quite a number, in various blog posts and articles - to point out 1. inconsistencies in FR's story 2. the fact that LI believed all FR said, and nothing AK said.....anyway, what is your thinking on her? Just trying to get a grasp....:waitasec:

I think FR had as much chance of being involved as AK, given the evidence. And I do find it strange that she didn't direct AK to call the police. I do find it strange that she was in her room, checking for missing stuff and moving stuff around instead of being concerned about the "locked door" that everyone feels AK wasn't concerned ENOUGH about.

When FR finally drew her attention to the door, she apparently makes a big deal of it that MK never locked her door. Apparently, AK's response was taken out of context. As she testified, she'd said something to the effect of, "No, she did lock her door often, but this time it's strange." (totally paraphrasing.)

Then FR doesn't know what she did with the shutters, and then we still don't understand her idea of "clean." FR knew that MK had rent money on her, and FR knew that the boys downstairs were gone and MK was watering the weed down there. and it WAS FR's room that gotten broken into. I'd said before that I'd expect it to be AK's room if it were a set up, because THEN AK would be also making herself a victim. Who suspects the victim? Are you following me? That's one reason I didn't believe AK had set it up. I thought for sure she'd vandalize her own room to make herself also a victim.

If they'd tested the DNA of FR and LM, who knows what they'd find.

BUT there's nothing linking FR to the crime, just as there is nothing linking AK to it.

Again, I think PL has some explaining to do, too, but I don't think he's the murderer. RG is.

 

[flourish]

Are you referring to his outside legal troubles?

do you believe that there are some odd but true similarities between AK/PL interrogations? .. I guess I'm trying to figure out what you were being (semi) facetious about. (confused)

Nova explains it a lot better than me (see below)...basically, it was a joke...AK falsely confessed...PL falsely confessed...does everyone in Italy falsely confess to things?

I don't have your skill with emoticons, but believe me, I didn't mean to imply that I imagine I have the power to browbeat you into one opinion or another.

It's just that the back and forth here sometimes seems relentless.

And I just wanted to add a thought...

No problems, Mr. Nova

Her Mignini reference wasn't to his troubles with the other case.

She was making a joke along the lines of "maybe EVERYBODY in the room, including the prosecutor, was coerced!" It was funny in context, because in addition to AK and RS, someone had just added PL to the list of those making false statements. So it was one of those "Maybe it would be easier if we make a list of who was NOT coerced..." comments.

Thank you, you explained it so much better than me

 

[wasnt_me]

Another interesting point that proves RG was not invited to the house by AK comes from one of his earlier statements. It might have been in the skype call or the Germany statement.

He said:

When I returned, at first nobody was there. After about eight minutes, Meredith arrived and opened the door for me and we entered. First we talked a little, and because we had flirted the night before, we kissed. We did not have sex. I did not rape Meredith. To prove this, I am willing to undergo all the necessary medical tests.

Then I went into the bathroom that is next to Amanda’s room, Meredith’s room is rather close to that.

I want to say something very important. When we entered the house, Meredith went into her room, opened a drawer near her bed, and discovered that her money was missing. Then she went into Amanda’s room to look for it.

Amanda was not in the house. Then Meredith complained that Amanda was smoking hashish. I knew that because on one occasion, the first time I visited there, we smoked hashish together. Meanwhile in the bathroom I heard, while listening to music on my I-Pod, somebody knock and enter.

Notice that Rudy has confused Amanda's room with Laura's room.

Early reports stated that the broken window room was MK's. It was really FR's. But RG apparently searched FR's drawers for cash and then went and searched LM's drawers. After reading the newspaper about the broken window in Mk's room, he assumed that LM's room was AK's room. So there must have been hash in LM's drawer, since he brings it up. so he's trying to pin the missing money on Ak due to reports he'd read in the papers, but he has no idea of which room belongs to whom, which is proof AK didn't invite him to chill in her house.

It's a one-level house. If they were all in there together, him, RS, and AK, he'd quickly figure out at least where AK's room was, especially if there was a sex game going on. I'm under the impression that he didn't even know he'd killed MK in her own room. I'm thinking he locked the door because he thought it was another roommates' room.

I'm just confused at why, then he says someone knocked on the door. he's not explaining this broken window. I'd have to see all his many stories, which is why I want the three hour translation that I'll never get.

 

[wasnt_me]

The more I think of it, this lie should have gotten RG the electric chair all by itself. And before anyone turns the comment onto AK, no her lie is not of the same magitude because she did not deposit her DNA inside MK and claim it was conscenual.

He says he went there to make out with MK and in fact, did make out with MK. But he doesn't know what room is hers? That proves he did not get invited to her house or her room. It also makes me wonder how the attack ocurred, really, if he didn't see her comfortable in any room of the house before it began. am I making sense?

I just believe that if you're trying to sell that you were invited there, were making out with her in her room, then you HAVE to know which room is hers.

And for the prosecution, if he's involved in a sex game with AK and RS that involves MK, how does he NOT know that it's occuring in MK's room at the time that it's occuring? The story is that they all decided to go to Mk's room, right? and then sex and kill her? So RG ought to know which one is her room. but he doesn't because he broke into a house he'd never been in before. And oh, doesn't he try to make it sound like he knows the house? Read the quote again. He even claims that is his second visit.

 

[Nova]

Another interesting point that proves RG was not invited to the house by AK comes from one of his earlier statements. It might have been in the skype call or the Germany statement.

He said:

When I returned, at first nobody was there. After about eight minutes, Meredith arrived and opened the door for me and we entered. First we talked a little, and because we had flirted the night before, we kissed. We did not have sex. I did not rape Meredith. To prove this, I am willing to undergo all the necessary medical tests.

Then I went into the bathroom that is next to Amanda’s room, Meredith’s room is rather close to that.

I want to say something very important. When we entered the house, Meredith went into her room, opened a drawer near her bed, and discovered that her money was missing. Then she went into Amanda’s room to look for it.

Amanda was not in the house. Then Meredith complained that Amanda was smoking hashish. I knew that because on one occasion, the first time I visited there, we smoked hashish together. Meanwhile in the bathroom I heard, while listening to music on my I-Pod, somebody knock and enter.

Notice that Rudy has confused Amanda's room with Laura's room.

Early reports stated that the broken window room was MK's. It was really FR's. But RG apparently searched FR's drawers for cash and then went and searched LM's drawers. After reading the newspaper about the broken window in Mk's room, he assumed that LM's room was AK's room. So there must have been hash in LM's drawer, since he brings it up. so he's trying to pin the missing money on Ak due to reports he'd read in the papers, but he has no idea of which room belongs to whom, which is proof AK didn't invite him to chill in her house.

It's a one-level house. If they were all in there together, him, RS, and AK, he'd quickly figure out at least where AK's room was, especially if there was a sex game going on. I'm under the impression that he didn't even know he'd killed MK in her own room. I'm thinking he locked the door because he thought it was another roommates' room.

I'm just confused at why, then he says someone knocked on the door. he's not explaining this broken window. I'd have to see all his many stories, which is why I want the three hour translation that I'll never get.

MK discovers that her month's rent is missing; yet the date with RG continues? MK doesn't call AK or any of the flatmates to say "What the hell?"

Oh, yeah, I believe that. (Actually what I do believe is that this story is proof-positive that RG stole the rent money.)

 

[wasnt_me]

Even with that, I think AK and RS are charged with the theft. I don't know if RG was also.

 

[wasnt_me]

Was this checked?

A.D.R.
When I left the house, I went through the basketball court where Chinese guys were playing and then I went home.

Just wondering if we'd had Asian witnesses? Or anyone tried to walk that route for evidence?

And this, it wasn't what she was wearing, or was it?

A.D.R.
When we came in (ndr. to the house), Meredith was wearing a dark jacket, then a white pullover and blue jeans. She was dressed the same way when I left.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/04/28/rudy-guede-amanda-knox-was-not-there/

And, did he pay his rent? Was he thrown out of his place? Or was it still under his name after he'd fled?

 

[Nova]

The more I think of it, this lie should have gotten RG the electric chair all by itself. And before anyone turns the comment onto AK, no her lie is not of the same magitude because she did not deposit her DNA inside MK and claim it was conscenual.

He says he went there to make out with MK and in fact, did make out with MK. But he doesn't know what room is hers? That proves he did not get invited to her house or her room. It also makes me wonder how the attack ocurred, really, if he didn't see her comfortable in any room of the house before it began. am I making sense?

I just believe that if you're trying to sell that you were invited there, were making out with her in her room, then you HAVE to know which room is hers.

And for the prosecution, if he's involved in a sex game with AK and RS that involves MK, how does he NOT know that it's occuring in MK's room at the time that it's occuring? The story is that they all decided to go to Mk's room, right? and then sex and kill her? So RG ought to know which one is her room. but he doesn't because he broke into a house he'd never been in before. And oh, doesn't he try to make it sound like he knows the house? Read the quote again. He even claims that is his second visit.

So if I understand you correctly, when he says he went into the bathroom near AK's and MK's room, he should have known he was actually near the Italian girls' rooms, yes?

Wow! Good sleuthing! That does rule out consensual sex with MK (which none of us ever believed) AND the supposed 3 on 1 sex game, which should have alerted him as to who slept where.

But why didn't RG figure out which room was MK's? Unless she was carrying the rent money with her and he surprised her at the front door. (Even if she fled to her room, RG might have assumed that was just panic, not because the room was hers.)

 

[SMK]

Even with that, I think AK and RS are charged with the theft. I don't know if RG was also.

Yeah. ...:waitasec: Thanks for bringing those details into focus. It is infuriating, really, to see what Guede pulled off. And in this light, doubly unfair to Ak and RS. :furious:

 

[wasnt_me]

Nova, Yes, that's what I'm thinking. That's why I wonder how the attack really happened. Maybe she was walking in the hall or kitchen, dialing the number to her mother's instead of sitting on her bed. She could have dashed to the door, realized she needed her keys to unlock it and ran to the back, and he chased her.

I just can't believe he didn't know which room was which. But to me, he's plainly telling the story of him sitting on the toilet, but interrupts that story to interject the bit about the missing money.

One more thing in that statment, too. "Amanda was not in the house."

Or, and it's not me. It's Candace Dempsey's theory.

See what he says:

First we talked a little, and because we had flirted the night before, we kissed. We did not have sex. I did not rape Meredith. To prove this, I am willing to undergo all the necessary medical tests. Then I went into the bathroom that is next to Amanda’s room, Meredith’s room is rather close to that. Iwant to say something very important. When we entered the house, .......

 

[SMK]

@ wasnt_me It makes me wonder how much of what you are illuminating, was brought up by the defense. If it wasn't, it should have been. And should be part of a broad appeal. I am afraid I am losing confidence in this appeals process for AK and RS.

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes because it proves NO ONE invited his butt to that house. Not MK, not AK. No one. That's a big mistep for RG to have described the inside of that house wrong. And I don't know if the defense brought it up but I do wonder how the MOT report would have dismissed it.

"Oh, even though RG mentions the wrong rooms and ascribes them to the wrong people, he is a reliable witness because his fingerprints and bloody footprints, and his poo, too, were at the scene, proving that he was there, and thus probably saw AK and RS--right before K threw Olives at them."

Isn't that about how the judge would word it?

 

[SMK]

Was this checked?

A.D.R.
When I left the house, I went through the basketball court where Chinese guys were playing and then I went home.

Just wondering if we'd had Asian witnesses? Or anyone tried to walk that route for evidence?

And this, it wasn't what she was wearing, or was it?

A.D.R.
When we came in (ndr. to the house), Meredith was wearing a dark jacket, then a white pullover and blue jeans. She was dressed the same way when I left.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/04/28/rudy-guede-amanda-knox-was-not-there/

And, did he pay his rent? Was he thrown out of his place? Or was it still under his name after he'd fled?

I cannot recall the source, but I had read several times that Guede was facing eviction (giving him strong motive to check the cottage for the collection of rent money which was due).

 

[SMK]

Yes because it proves NO ONE invited his butt to that house. Not MK, not AK. No one. That's a big mistep for RG to have described the inside of that house wrong. And I don't know if the defense brought it up but I do wonder how the MOT report would have dismissed it.

"Oh, even though RG mentions the wrong rooms and ascribes them to the wrong people, he is a reliable witness because his fingerprints and bloody footprints, and his poo, too, were at the scene, proving that he was there, and thus probably saw AK and RS--right before K threw Olives at them."

Isn't that about how the judge would word it?

Exactly. :furious:

 

[wasnt_me]

And also to get in downstairs to stay there while the boys were away. I'm sure he knew they were away. Maybe MK might have inadvertently told him that herself when she'd seen him at the club the night before.

One thing I cannot dismiss is that RG was at the same club the night before the murder as MK was.

People say they didn't see the two together, but it's way too much of a coincidence that he claims to have seen her there and she'd dead the next night with his DNA on her. He might have stalked her. He might have tried to have a polite word with her, but whatever it was, seeing her that night put the cottage on his mind.

 

[wasnt_me]

Exactly. :furious:

This is in fact why I welcome RG to take the witness stand in this appeal. Oh, do I welcome it. If the attorneys do what they should, they'd rip him to shreds and the court would be so embarrassed, they'd let AK and RS walk out that very day.

Can you imagine if a really tough lawyer got to grill RG for the defense? If RG took the stand, though, I'd expect this appeal to last a lot longer. I can imagine the defense would want him on the stand as long as possible. and I don't care how many years he's had to prep, I'll bet they'd crack him. Or it's just wishful thinking, because the judge would then choose to ignore the expert defense cross exam.