Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12

[Malkmus]

Personally, I find any speculation of FR being involved in this crime to be a bit unfounded. After all, she was the one who testified in Amanda's favor that she was actually very upset about Meredith's death and reacted in a normal way.
FYI, ona similar note, one of Meredith's British friends also testified that Amanda did in fact find it strange that the door to Meredith's room was locked, thus backing up AK's testimony that it was unusual, but not unprecedented.

 

[wasnt_me]

blaming AK and RS is equally unfounded, based on the evidence. Had they tested FR's stuff, her boyfriend's stuff, and her alibi, she'd probably be in the same situation as AK. All I'm saying.

In fact, she should thank God she didn't swivel her hips or some too low to test DNA might have wond up on her Bf's knife.

 

[SMK]

blaming AK and RS is equally unfounded, based on the evidence. Had they tested FR's stuff, her boyfriend's stuff, and her alibi, she'd probably be in the same situation as AK. All I'm saying.

I imagine, though, that Mignini had a particular antipathy to the "type" that he found Amanda to be. (not her being American, I do not think ) I think this mainly because of having read Douglass Preston's encounter with Mignini, and his commentary on Mignini's history. So I feel Filomina came across as one thing to him (and the others) and Knox, entirely another, which aroused (unfounded) suspicion. This I have come to think after 3 years of reading, it is not just something you can think right off the bat.

 

[JBean]

let's stay away from considering FR, please. I don't think she was ever a suspect was she?
Thanks.

 

[Malkmus]

blaming AK and RS is equally unfounded, based on the evidence. Had they tested FR's stuff, her boyfriend's stuff, and her alibi, she'd probably be in the same situation as AK. All I'm saying.

In fact, she should thank God she didn't swivel her hips or some too low to test DNA might have wond up on her Bf's knife.

I totally get what you're saying, but I think the best way to look at it is that much of the time the circumstantial evidence against AK and RS (remembering specific times wrong, confessing to things they didn't do, etc.) can also be applied to all the peripheral characters in this case - Filomena, Patrick, and many others included. It doesn't make any of them look guilty, just AK and RS more innocent, IMO.

 

[Nova]

Personally, I find any speculation of FR being involved in this crime to be a bit unfounded. After all, she was the one who testified in Amanda's favor that she was actually very upset about Meredith's death and reacted in a normal way.
FYI, ona similar note, one of Meredith's British friends also testified that Amanda did in fact find it strange that the door to Meredith's room was locked, thus backing up AK's testimony that it was unusual, but not unprecedented.

I don't for one moment think any of the flatmates had anything to do with MK's rape or murder.

I find FR interesting only because her basic situation and alibi are so similar to that of AK, and yet she was treated entirely differently by ILE. This demonstrates the tunnel vision that was focused on AK from the beginning, IMO.

(JBean, I wrote the above post before I read your caution. Is this approach not okay? I'll be happy to repeat my belief in the innocence of all the flatmates as often as is necessary. But when LE develops tunnel vision, it's hard to demonstrate it without some point of comparison. FR and AK seem to have the most similarities--which is by no means a reason to suspect FR.)

 

[wasnt_me]

From what I can tell, RG's first alibi or statement about the murder, captured in the Skype call:

Listen, you know I knew those girls, I knew them both, Meredith and Amanda, but nothing more, you know that. I've been to their house twice, the last time a few days before all this business, but I didn't do anything. I have nothing to do with this business. I wasn't there that evening. If they have found my fingerprints it means I must have left them there before.

So at first, he claims he wasn't there at all. I'd have to look up the date of the skype call and try to review what was in the news at that point. Unless someone else already knows.

Before the judge in Germany, he moves to the elaborate little date story that gets interrupted by poo and a nafarious guest, who is polite enough to rings the doorbell five minutes before viciously attacking MK.

 

[Allusonz]

I did, thanks In fact, I had a photo taken to share with ya'll:

(http://newmoonjournal.blogs.com/the_new_moon_journal/Pinhead_profile.jg)


Are you ready to be surprised?
I don't buy into the prosecutions narrative in this case. I also have gotten to the point where I'm thinking AK and RS may not have done any stabbing, and may not have even been in the room during the murder.

:thud:

However, I'm still not convinced that AK, and by default, RS, didn't have something to do with MK's murder, either before, during (present in cottage during), and/or after. It's also my strong belief that if they were involved in set up and/or cover-up, then they are accessories to, and culpable in, the murder.

So, if the question is, "flourish, do you believe AK and RS are guilty as presented in court?" my answer is "no." But if the question is, "flourish, do you believe AK and RS are guilty of participating in the murder of MK?" my answer is "I don't know, but it's a definite possibility."

:seeya:

OMG

flourish you really must find alternative methods for reducing frustration :

ripping off fingernails and sticking all these into ones body could be considered by the Supreme Court as a MASSIVE grounds for appeal :giggle:

too funny, I love it

 

[Allusonz]

flourish, I swear I'm not trying to strong-arm you and I don't expect you to agree suddenly because of the point I'm about to make.

Of course I don't have a transcript or video, but based on similar cases, I will bet that AK was being told something to the effect of "We have indisputable proof PL killed her, we just need you to confirm that you saw him there."

So under pressure it doesn't come to seem like accusing an innocent man, it seems like a minor lie that merely adds to the "irrefutable" evidence the police already have. In other words, it is presented to the interrogation target as accusing a GUILTY man, not an innocent one.

This is much how I see this starting off as well. Without the audio/visual though we must speculate. I then see it becomming more intense. The prosecution never denied the fact they had the 12 detectives there overnight, they as well did not deny that they asked to "imagine" a scenerio etc.

The bottom line out of all of this is that the forensics do not back any of her statements, which brings up the language issue again as I don't believe her ability to read Italian was good enough to understand the written statements

 

[Allusonz]

Thought this might interest some of you. The experts have asked for an additional 40 days to analyze the .fsa files which it appears from the various articles they have yet to receive

They will then evaluate based on record level of confidence of the investigations carried out by forensic genetics, with reference also to possible contamination from the hypothesized defenses but always excluded by the investigators. . Knox and Sollecito, 25and sentenced to 26 years' imprisonment are detained but have always proclaimed strangers to crime

http://translate.google.com/transla...i-40-giorni-per-la-perizia-sul-dna/39456.html

 

[SMK]

And also to get in downstairs to stay there while the boys were away. I'm sure he knew they were away. Maybe MK might have inadvertently told him that herself when she'd seen him at the club the night before.

One thing I cannot dismiss is that RG was at the same club the night before the murder as MK was.

People say they didn't see the two together, but it's way too much of a coincidence that he claims to have seen her there and she'd dead the next night with his DNA on her. He might have stalked her. He might have tried to have a polite word with her, but whatever it was, seeing her that night put the cottage on his mind.

I agree - I think it is too much of a coincidence too, and yes, it put the idea of going to see her in his mind.

 

[SMK]

Thought this might interest some of you. The experts have asked for an additional 40 days to analyze the .fsa files which it appears from the various articles they have yet to receive

They will then evaluate based on record level of confidence of the investigations carried out by forensic genetics, with reference also to possible contamination from the hypothesized defenses but always excluded by the investigators. . Knox and Sollecito, 25and sentenced to 26 years' imprisonment are detained but have always proclaimed strangers to crime

http://translate.google.com/transla...i-40-giorni-per-la-perizia-sul-dna/39456.html

Thanks for that - I assume it is good for the defense? One thing I really like: At the time that the bra clasp and knife were reported in the media to be rusty, no dna, etc., places like PMF kept saying this was good for the prosecution, no big deal, would only mean original report would be taken into account----but I wager a 40 day extension shows that is NOT the case. Thanks so much!
ETA: What I meant was, if this was all good for the prosecution as has been so confidently stated, then I would expect the May 9 and May 21 rulings to stand as they were, and not be postponed for such a length of time...

 

[miley]

Nova explains it a lot better than me (see below)...basically, it was a joke...AK falsely confessed...PL falsely confessed...does everyone in Italy falsely confess to things?

Her Mignini reference wasn't to his troubles with the other case.

She was making a joke along the lines of "maybe EVERYBODY in the room, including the prosecutor, was coerced!" It was funny in context, because in addition to AK and RS, someone had just added PL to the list of those making false statements. So it was one of those "Maybe it would be easier if we make a list of who was NOT coerced..." comments.

oh okay, I get it, thanks Nova for the translation...

actually(flourish)... making a list may not be such a bad idea

 

[SMK]

I think false confessions comprise a minority - but a significant minority - everywhere globally where there are police interrogations . I did not used to think this, until I began watching true forensic and crime shows.....Mignini did not confess, thus there could be no "false confession" on his part. He was tracked, and records showed behavior beyond the legal, and his 20 indictments were thrown out, and he was convicted, and sentenced to jail (sentence suspended).

 

[miley]

I think false confessions comprise a minority - but a significant minority - everywhere globally where there are police interrogations . I did not used to think this, until I began watching true forensic and crime shows.....Mignini did not confess, thus there could be no "false confession" on his part. He was tracked, and records showed behavior beyond the legal, and his 20 indictments were thrown out, and he was convicted, and sentenced to jail (sentence suspended).

right, I didn't think he had necessarily confessed to anything... it's just that FrankS has always sort of implied that mignini was a victim too - misled by police. I guess I was trying to see things from his perspective - wondering if there are any redeeming qualities.

you said he was more than just a boor... should that be taken as a good quality, lol ... i'm not sure.

 

[SMK]

right, I didn't think he had necessarily confessed to anything... it's just that FrankS has always sort of implied that mignini was a victim too - misled by police. I guess I was trying to see things from his perspective - wondering if there are any redeeming qualities.

you said he was more than just a boor... should that be taken as a good quality, lol ... i'm not sure.

Yes, indeed Mignini is not without his good qualities. I think I was responding to what flourish had said about Mignini perhaps being coerced as well (think she was half-joking). I think Mignini may be misled by his own classical, Perugian-provincial take on things....However, there is a point at which even he must be reigned in....

 

[SMK]

I thought this thread on Injustice in Perugia was very interesting, because I, too , have always wondered about the downstairs apartment, the cat blood, the bloody tissues outside, the fact that Meredith had the keys to downstairs to water the pot plants, the fact that Guede may have known that the boys were going away for some days, etc. - I always felt the downstairs may have been part of the crime-scene, and now this is being proposed openly by a poster:
This part particularly fascinates me:

If the scars on Rudy's hand are from cat scratches then it could reasonably be conjectured that:

- Rudy had contact with the cat's sensitive infected ear and the cat reacted to the pain by scratching Rudy.
- Rudy gripped paper tissues in his hand to stem the bleeding from the cat cuts.
- Rudy's contact with the cat caused the cat's ear to bleed (or bleed more).
- Rudy got blood on his hand from the cat's bleeding ear.
- Rudy transferred some of the cat's blood on his hand to the light switch downstairs
- Therefore Rudy was downstairs.
- Rudy got into the downstairs apartment with the key that was given to Meredith so she could look after the cat.
- Therefore Rudy stole the key from Meredith.
- Rudy used the flip-flop shoes while cleaning up - possibly showering blood off.
- Rudy did not flee the scene immediately after the stabbing.
- Rudy had an opportunity to re-enter the upstairs later.
- Rudy dropped the bloody paper tissues when he opened his hand and lost his grip on them.
- The bloody paper tissues may have had both cat blood and Rudy's blood/DNA on them.


The Cat and the Cat Burglar:
http://www.injusticeinperugiaforum.org/the-cat-and-the-cat-burglar-t935.html

 

[Nova]

This is much how I see this starting off as well. Without the audio/visual though we must speculate. I then see it becomming more intense. The prosecution never denied the fact they had the 12 detectives there overnight, they as well did not deny that they asked to "imagine" a scenerio etc.

The bottom line out of all of this is that the forensics do not back any of her statements, which brings up the language issue again as I don't believe her ability to read Italian was good enough to understand the written statements

I agree. And I think phrases like "accused an innocent man" take on a life of their own in the media and especially over the internet. When AK implicated PL, I have no doubt whatsoever she was being told that LE already had proof that PL committed the murder.

This is NOT to say it was okay for AK to agree to implicate PL. I'm only saying that concessions made under intense interrogation are different from lies invented out of whole cloth.

 

[Nova]

I agree - I think it is too much of a coincidence too, and yes, it put the idea of going to see her in his mind.

Particularly if he knew MK's boyfriend would be out of town.

I think every woman here can recall incidents where men assumed she would be "available" just because her boyfriend/husband was out of town.

I'm male (and gay) myself, but I've heard countless such stories from female friends. Boyfriend/husband is out of town, so one of his male friends shows up, ready for action and assuming the lonely woman will be too lonely to resist.

The problem with this line of thinking is that RG probably had no way of knowing who else would be at the cottage that night. So I'm back to the interrupted burglary as the most likely scenario.

 

[Nova]

Thought this might interest some of you. The experts have asked for an additional 40 days to analyze the .fsa files which it appears from the various articles they have yet to receive

They will then evaluate based on record level of confidence of the investigations carried out by forensic genetics, with reference also to possible contamination from the hypothesized defenses but always excluded by the investigators. . Knox and Sollecito, 25and sentenced to 26 years' imprisonment are detained but have always proclaimed strangers to crime

http://translate.google.com/transla...i-40-giorni-per-la-perizia-sul-dna/39456.html

How long before it is announced that the .fsa files have been lost and the appellate experts will just have to make a decision with them?