Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12

[OldSteve]

Checking for news on the appeal, and found this:

"Perugia court gives forensics experts another 40 days to complete tests "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...xperts-another-40-days-to-complete-tests.html

 

[SMK]

Checking for news on the appeal, and found this:

"Perugia court gives forensics experts another 40 days to complete tests "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...xperts-another-40-days-to-complete-tests.html

Thanks, Steve - this appeared first in the Italian Press, and I believe wasnt_me or Allusonz posted the Google translate. Do you believe this is good for the defense? I have heard both sides saying it is good for each, respectively, and Nova says may not be good for either. Allusonz thinks it is good for the defense, from what I gather. What do you think?:waitasec:

 

[flourish]

Checking for news on the appeal, and found this:

"Perugia court gives forensics experts another 40 days to complete tests "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...xperts-another-40-days-to-complete-tests.html

From the link you provided, with my emboldening added:

Knox's lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova said: [...] "We heard how the clasp had rusted away because it had been kept in a bag of water and the DNA on the knife was too low. We know have to wait for the final report."

(link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8500067/Amanda-Knox-appeal-Perugia-court-gives-forensics-experts-another-40-days-to-complete-tests.html)

WTH? Have we heard about this alleged bag of water being used as a storage device? That just sounds bizarre...:waitasec:...anyone have any more info on that?

 

[SMK]

From the link you provided, with my emboldening added:


(link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8500067/Amanda-Knox-appeal-Perugia-court-gives-forensics-experts-another-40-days-to-complete-tests.html)

WTH? Have we heard about this alleged bag of water being used as a storage device? That just sounds bizarre...:waitasec:...anyone have any more info on that?

I agree with you - what could they have been thinking? I , too, would like some explanation!:waitasec:

 

[Nova]

From the link you provided, with my emboldening added:


(link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8500067/Amanda-Knox-appeal-Perugia-court-gives-forensics-experts-another-40-days-to-complete-tests.html)

WTH? Have we heard about this alleged bag of water being used as a storage device? That just sounds bizarre...:waitasec:...anyone have any more info on that?

I don't have more on that, but it was part of the original info leaked on the DNA testing: that the clasp can't be retested because it was stored in liquid.

I mean, regardless of whether AK and RS are guilty, at this point I think they have to be released because of repeated instances of ILE incompetence.

 

[SMK]

I don't have more on that, but it was part of the original info leaked on the DNA testing: that the clasp can't be retested because it was stored in liquid.

I mean, regardless of whether AK and RS are guilty, at this point I think they have to be released because of repeated instances of ILE incompetence.

You are so right, Nova! And it is even stated thusly in articles about the impropriety of it all: (there are many others, but this one I had handy):

The clasp, which was cut from the bra, was stored improperly in a "liquid jar" and is now so deteriorated that it can't be retested.http://jezebel.com/hardknoxlife/5785598

 

[Allusonz]

From the link you provided, with my emboldening added:


(link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8500067/Amanda-Knox-appeal-Perugia-court-gives-forensics-experts-another-40-days-to-complete-tests.html)

WTH? Have we heard about this alleged bag of water being used as a storage device? That just sounds bizarre...:waitasec:...anyone have any more info on that?

At first I thought there was something lost in the translation meaning that the bra clasp had been wet and stored in a plastic bag

Then I realized that technically the clasp had air dried for 47 days on the floor at the cottage thus it should not of been wet but most of the initial reports that came out stated it was stored in liquid

" Why? Because it seems, the clasp has been stored, for years, in a jar of liquid. Not only has any DNA long since rotted away, the clasp itself has actually rusted. Any competent forensic investigator knows that DNA samples must be kept dry or they will decompose."

http://www.zimbio.com/Amanda+Knox/articles/MK8Ej9Nt-Oq/Prosecutor+New+Clothes+Amanda+Knox

According to the leaked report, the clasp - which had been cut from the bra - had been poorly kept in a 'liquid jar' and not properly dried which meant it had 'rotted and rusted'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-insufficient-convict-her.html#ixzz1Lnm3y1HY

Jordan says she was "literally horrified" when she heard the bra clasp on which DNA was supposedly found had rusted. "How could it have rusted?" she asked. "You always have to dry DNA, very specific techniques, store it properly, chain of custody. It apparently was stored in a jar of liquid

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/26/earlyshow/saturday/main20047474.shtml

 

[Allusonz]

Thanks for this info! Gee, my Italian grandmother had striking blue eyes... wonder what kind of attention that must have gotten her when she was young, back in Italy...

Probably the envy of all the other ladies her age

 

[Nova]

Nobody seems to spend much time or attention on the fact that RG's skin cells (IIRC) were found inside MK's vagina. Is this because the subject area is an uncomfortable one? Is it because the number of skin cells was small? Is it because we can't trust ILE to actually do DNA tests? Is it because ILE didn't do necessary tests such as testing the apparent semen stain on the pillow?

I'm just wondering because this discovery--if true--seems to indicate that something happened in addition to a robbery being interrupted. Something that has to be included in the "lone wolf robbery interrupted" scenario.

I realize RG has claimed there was consensual sex, but I don't think any of us believes that.

 

[wasnt_me]

are you saying you think the rape act was somehow interrupted and that's how the semen or what we think is semen, wound up on the pillow and in one of RG's shoe prints instead of in the vagina?

Everyone,

Watch CNN for me tonight, cause I don't get that channel.

 

[Nova]

are you saying you think the rape act was somehow interrupted and that's how the semen or what we think is semen, wound up on the pillow and in one of RG's shoe prints instead of in the vagina?

Everyone,

Watch CNN for me tonight, cause I don't get that channel.

No, I'm not really saying anything. It's just an area of the case we seem to ignore most of the time. Maybe it's possible for skin cells to accidentally end up in MK's vagina, but I'm assuming that isn't true.

 

[SMK]

Nobody seems to spend much time or attention on the fact that RG's skin cells (IIRC) were found inside MK's vagina. Is this because the subject area is an uncomfortable one? Is it because the number of skin cells was small? Is it because we can't trust ILE to actually do DNA tests? Is it because ILE didn't do necessary tests such as testing the apparent semen stain on the pillow?

I'm just wondering because this discovery--if true--seems to indicate that something happened in addition to a robbery being interrupted. Something that has to be included in the "lone wolf robbery interrupted" scenario.

I realize RG has claimed there was consensual sex, but I don't think any of us believes that.

Yes, Nova-- to me, this is highly suggestive of Hendry's Lone Wolf Scenario---a burglary, interrupted, escalates to include rape and murder. From cases I have actually been familiar with - one within my own family - a female found at a burglary site which the burglar had thought would be empty, is often raped, or murdered, or both ----it is common. Why would not RS's skin cells have been similarly found, if the 3 on 1 scenario had taken place? To my thinking, Mignini et al would simply not let go of the latter theory, so skimmed over the obvious facts. Rudy broke in, found Meredith, raped, struggled with her, subdued her with the knife to the point of murder. Far more easily believed than the 3 person attack.

 

[SMK]

No, I'm not really saying anything. It's just an area of the case we seem to ignore most of the time. Maybe it's possible for skin cells to accidentally end up in MK's vagina, but I'm assuming that isn't true.

No, it is no accident. He either raped or molested her. Nothing accidental about it. Mignini knows this, but even so, includes AK and RS and even has Rudy as more peripheral. His reasoning is insane.

 

[Nova]

Yes, Nova-- to me, this is highly suggestive of Hendry's Lone Wolf Scenario---a burglary, interrupted, escalates to include rape and murder. From cases I have actually been familiar with - one within my own family - a female found at a burglary site which the burglar had thought would be empty, is often raped, or murdered, or both ----it is common. Why would not RS's skin cells have been similarly found, if the 3 on 1 scenario had taken place? To my thinking, Mignini et al would simply not let go of the latter theory, so skimmed over the obvious facts. Rudy broke in, found Meredith, raped, struggled with her, subdued her with the knife to the point of murder. Far more easily believed than the 3 person attack.

I'm sorry to hear one of your relatives was victimized, SMK.

I agree with you: if AK and RS were holding MK down while she was being raped, surely they would have left some skin cells on MK's arms or clothing.

I don't really understand how an interrupted burglary escalates to rape, but then I've never committed either. I believe you that it is common.

But maybe RG really did like MK in some weird way and that is why he covered her with the duvet.

 

[Nova]

No, it is no accident. He either raped or molested her. Nothing accidental about it. Mignini knows this, but even so, includes AK and RS and even has Rudy as more peripheral. His reasoning is insane.

Mignini's reaction to AK reminds me of that of rapists and serial killers to their victims in this respect (only): he seems to project all responsibility onto the girl who excites his own libido.

It's a weird thing men do: blame a woman because they have a hormonal reaction to her attractiveness.

 

[wasnt_me]

No, I'm not really saying anything. It's just an area of the case we seem to ignore most of the time. Maybe it's possible for skin cells to accidentally end up in MK's vagina, but I'm assuming that isn't true.

We'ce discussed it a little, but some like me might have taken for it for granted, because they don't believe in anything but the lonewolf theory. I believe I've said before that it makes no sense that Rs and AK would bind or threaten MK just so that RG could commit rape or sexual assault. they might be reluctant to test the stains because then they couldn't even hold onto the 'staged rape' theory if the stains are indeed semen from rg.

 

[SMK]

I'm sorry to hear one of your relatives was victimized, SMK.

I agree with you: if AK and RS were holding MK down while she was being raped, surely they would have left some skin cells on MK's arms or clothing.

I don't really understand how an interrupted burglary escalates to rape, but then I've never committed either. I believe you that it is common.

But maybe RG really did like MK in some weird way and that is why he covered her with the duvet.

Thanks, Nova. From what I understand, the rape is part of gaining control of the unexpected presence. It may be also due to (drug fueled?) rage. Murder may be the natural escalation of this, and also due to having been recognized (how could Rudy continue on in Perugia once he had burglared the cottage and raped MK?)---Yes, this does not discount his liking her, or feeling remorse and sorrow after the fact.

 

[SMK]

Mignini's reaction to AK reminds me of that of rapists and serial killers to their victims in this respect (only): he seems to project all responsibility onto the girl who excites his own libido.

It's a weird thing men do: blame a woman because they have a hormonal reaction to her attractiveness.

Yes, you have an accurate intuition of Mignini's psyche. It is a male trait, but particularly a patriarchal, classical Catholic male trait, such as Mignini is. It has its light side, and its darker aspect, which Knox IMO became a victim of in just the manner you assert. I think being a gay male, you have a more evolved and more egalitarian sexuality. Just MO.

 

[wasnt_me]

anyone watch cnn report?

 

[JBean]

I watched it. It was well done and clearly supportive of her innocence.