Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12

[Nova]

protecting rudy's rights or favors for a friend?

"Mignini is considered an optimal prosecutor," Biscotti told the P-I recently. "As a man of law and resident of Perugia, I cannot accept these unjust criticisms of Italian magistrates and the judicial system coming from Seattle."

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Knox-prosecutor-sues-area-paper-1300055.php#ixzz1MIqmkk6J
​

One is tempted to conclude the protection given to magistrates and judges--and the little regard given to freedoms of speech and the press--is a legacy of Italy's royalist and fascist past. Let's face it: as democracies go, Italy's is a rather young one (about 60 years).

 

[Nova]

So you think that Rudy's lawyer filed a lawsuit against Joe Tacopina because the prosecutor was in bed with Rudy's lawyer?

At this point nothing would surprise me.

 

[otto]

So you admit that PL's opinion of AK is based entirely on one action: her implication of him in the murder of MK.

Everyone here agrees that action by AK was wrong, though most of us at least understand that the statement was made under pressure and not through a calculated plot to frame PL for the murder.

THEREFORE, PL's opinion of AK is irrelevant because it is based on one fact, a fact already accepted by everyone here and so his opinion adds nothing to our knowledge of the case.

It's just something you like to throw in because you enjoy disparaging AK.

Perhaps there are some people in this world that would view a person that deliberately destroyed their lives a really terrific person, but Patrick isn't one of them. It is interesting to read that people here would have no hard feelings against someone that destroyed their lives.

 

[Nova]

Well, I must admit, from what I recall of reading Preston's account of the interrogation, it did not seem all that long. Of course , he may have abbreviated. I do recall his saying Mignini kept saying, "You said this, Dottoro, now you say THAT!". And that Mignini was soft spoken, sweet, apologetic at the beginning, and suddenly became loud, angry, brash, and confused the hell out of Preston. But I do think Preston's writing style, the rhythm of it, his choice of words, is excellent.

In the CNN program where Preston timed the interview at 2 hours and claimed to have written down the start and end times on that day, he discussed how much of the interview involved repetitious accusations or jumping on minor inconsistencies (such as you describe above).

I have no trouble believing that took two hours. Such tactics wouldn't be effective otherwise.

(ETA Mignini may be telling the trust as he recalls it when he says the interview lasted from 20 to 30 minutes, but I believe that Preston wrote down the times correctly.)

 

[otto]

In the big picture of Knox, should she take responsibility for anything, or is everything someone else's fault?

 

[Nova]

Meredith Kercher is the victim in this murder.

How far are people willing to go to go against the jury's decision regarding the verdict?

As far as it takes to find any evidence that is convincing against AK or RS.

That two judges bullied the rest of the jury into a quick conviction proves nothing to me.

 

[sherlockh]

You may admit what you like, but I don't devote the hours I've spent here just to accept a jury verdict without question. I can make up my own mind.

That is what I was afraid of No matter how many more trials there will be, or how many more independent experts will validate the evidence there will be people who won't believe it because they already made up their mind. But no matter the outcome I will always remember the excuses. Here are my favorites

- The mixed blood/DNA trail left by AK right after the murder would have convicted them by itself, but no...it is all normal because she lived there...lol...
- The bloody footprints are not blood because they could have been isolated soil, fruit juice or spinach events that AK and her bf of one week don't remember. That one was right in front of the murder room is just a coincidence, that one print had mixed DNA in it is just normal, and that one print matched the bloody bathmat print is just another expert error.
- That the bathmat footprint was subscribed to RS is also an expert error. After all, there is only 4 sizes difference between RS and RG. And that hammer toe thing? Just cut off a piece of the big toe, and claim RG merged his big and 2nd toe together. Problem solved.
- The DNA on the knife? Another expert error.
- DNA on the bra clasp? Contamination. Just look at some youtube video
- Staged break-in? No, there is a scratch on the wall. Break-in proven.
- Confession? What confession? The police coerced them in an hour or 2. That RS doesn't want to correct himself in court is his good right. That AK confirmed her confession in writing the next day doesn't count either. She didn't mean it like that.
- Witnesses? All druggies, or deaf. Don't count.

This case is actually so simple. Anyway, I am waiting for some real news on the case. Nothing much going on. Frank's case has no bearing on the Meredith Kercher case. I don't understand why Websleuths is allowing the derailment. All JMO

 

[Nova]

Lumumba's nonsense? What do you mean? Surely you're not suggesting that Patrick is deserving of scorn because he has a normal reaction to having his livlihood destroyed by a woman from Seattle.

Dull people like Knox can be murderers, but that is not enough to make them interesting. However, I'm sure that some people find murderers interesting simply because they have an ugly mind.

I'm not casting scorn on PL and, yes, I appreciate his anger at AK. (Though I continue in my belief that he heaps extra approbation on AK's head because he doesn't DARE criticize ILE or Mignini for fear of being fined or landing back in jail.)

My point was that the phrase "a dead soul" makes no sense according to any theology I know. In Christianity it is specifically held that souls are eternal and can be redeemed at any time in this life through repentance.

I realize PL is from Africa, so perhaps he relies on some African concept of the soul. The African works I know and have taught make no mention of "dead souls", but there are many animist religions on the continent and perhaps PL draws on one of them.

Or maybe it's a bad translation. Regardless I find the notion of a dead soul nonsensical. It sounds like it was chosen just to sound "really, really bad" but without regard for what such a notion might actually mean. IMHO.

***

In addition to echoing Mr. Lumumba (in which case a "dead soul" is enough to make someone rather interesting, I should think), you have exhausted your thesaurus to regale us with the extreme and horrible qualities of Amanda Knox. That you've now decided to also call her "dull" is false on its face.

She can't be both the very incarnation of evil and also dull, not by any commonly accepted definition of those words.

You just like to make up bad things to write about her.

 

[SMK]

On the subject of the HIV test, I want to add that I am a gay man of a certain age. I lived in NYC through the early early years of the AIDS epidemic (when there were more cases there even than in SF), when there was no government research and nobody had a clue as to the cause. I lived in New York and L.A. through the worst years of young men dying in droves, and I lost many friends and a brother. I remember well when tests were first developed and the many controversies that arose over testing and privacy.

I've been tested myself at least half-a-dozen times, not because I'm actually at risk (having been monogamous with the same partner since the mid-70s), but because if you're a gay man and go to a new doctor, the doctor can't rest until he gets that test. (I understand why: patients often lie to their doctors; so I say, "Sure, go ahead and test again.")

IN ALL THAT TIME, I've yet to encounter a single acquaintance who threw a false positive. This site puts the number of false positives at 15 per 1,000 tests and says those can be quickly solved with a second test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_test



SO I AM HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS that AK somehow accidentally turned out to be one of the lucky 15. I believe:

1. ILE was just looking for more dirt to fuel the "Foxy Knoxy" story they were pushing in the press and that Mignini wanted for trial; or

2. As wasnt_me's link suggests, they were hoping AK would list RG as a former sex partner and they could use that list to solve the lack of apparent connection between RG and AK/RS. (Thanks for suggesting this, wasn't_me.)

EITHER WAY, I find the conduct of ILE disgusting. The fact that they then turned around leaked AK's list of sex partners to the press is, well... Words fail me.

Excellent point. You know whereof you speak. And yes, what they did to AK was appalling.

 

[Nova]

If the prosecutor is responsible for convictions, why would any legal system bother with judges and juries?

Judges and juries are supposed to serve as checks on the power of the prosecutor. Thus far, the only evidence of that in Italy is the recent rebuke of the prosecutor for not turning over the .fsa files to the defense. But the fact that she has been able to defy the Court for nearly two years speaks to just how much power prosecutors have in Italy.

A prosecutor who tried that trick in the U.S. would find his case dismissed and his in jail for contempt.

 

[Nova]

I don't agree. Even Dempsey says in her book that Amanda took it upon herself to list her sex partners.

That is not what has been reported elsewhere.

Where did Dempsey get her information?

 

[SMK]

That is what I was afraid of No matter how many more trials there will be, or how many more independent experts will validate the evidence there will be people who won't believe it because they already made up their mind. But no matter the outcome I will always remember the excuses. Here are my favorites

- The mixed blood/DNA trail left by AK right after the murder would have convicted them by itself, but no...it is all normal because she lived there...lol...
- The bloody footprints are not blood because they could have been isolated soil, fruit juice or spinach events that AK and her bf of one week don't remember. That one was right in front of the murder room is just a coincidence, that one print had mixed DNA in it is just normal, and that one print matched the bloody bathmat print is just another expert error.
- That the bathmat footprint was subscribed to RS is also an expert error. After all, there is only 4 sizes difference between RS and RG. And that hammer toe thing? Just cut off a piece of the big toe, and claim RG merged his big and 2nd toe together. Problem solved.
- The DNA on the knife? Another expert error.
- DNA on the bra clasp? Contamination. Just look at some youtube video
- Staged break-in? No, there is a scratch on the wall. Break-in proven.
- Confession? What confession? The police coerced them in an hour or 2. That RS doesn't want to correct himself in court is his good right. That AK confirmed her confession in writing the next day doesn't count either. She didn't mean it like that.
- Witnesses? All druggies, or deaf. Don't count.

This case is actually so simple. Anyway, I am waiting for some real news on the case. Nothing much going on. Frank's case has no bearing on the Meredith Kercher case. I don't understand why Websleuths is allowing the derailment. All JMO

Take away the sarcasm and the sardonic and cynical tone, and many of these points are in fact true, and actually do point to innocence. Time will tell......It is in the hands of Providence now.

 

[Nova]

Perhaps there are some people in this world that would view a person that deliberately destroyed their lives a really terrific person, but Patrick isn't one of them. It is interesting to read that people here would have no hard feelings against someone that destroyed their lives.

No one has said any such thing. What we've said is that PL has a very understandable grudge against AK, the point being he is not an unbiased and reliable source on her character.

And I will add that to my knowledge, PL is not an expert on souls, dead or alive.

 

[Nova]

In the big picture of Knox, should she take responsibility for anything, or is everything someone else's fault?

She should take responsibility for falsely implicating PL. The point about interrogation techniques is that her lie doesn't indicate she is guilty of murder, not that she bears no responsibility for PL's legal troubles.

But she should not take responsibility for a murder she neither committed nor covered up, nor is she responsible for ILE holding PL for two weeks instead of doing of their jobs.

 

[SMK]

Perhaps there are some people in this world that would view a person that deliberately destroyed their lives a really terrific person, but Patrick isn't one of them. It is interesting to read that people here would have no hard feelings against someone that destroyed their lives.

Ummmmmm? okie???? Confuse me? what are you talking about? :waitasec: we CLEARLY said it was fully understandable that Patrick was angry. That his anger was justified. Please name the "people here" who would have "no hard feelings" if someone destroyed us? It ain't SMK or Nova. So who? what post are you referring to?????????

 

[SMK]

I don't agree. Even Dempsey says in her book that Amanda took it upon herself to list her sex partners.

Can you quote and give the page #? Did not Dempsey say that she took it upon herself after having been told she tested positive for HIV? And was not Amanda's list an incredulous one? She was dumbfounded as to how on earth she might have contracted the AIDS virus?

 

[Nova]

That is what I was afraid of No matter how many more trials there will be, or how many more independent experts will validate the evidence there will be people who won't believe it because they already made up their mind....

I did not say my mind was irrevocably made up, I said I am able to make up my own mind. I've already changed my mind about this case once.

But no matter the outcome I will always remember the excuses. Here are my favorites

- The mixed blood/DNA trail left by AK right after the murder would have convicted them by itself, but no...it is all normal because she lived there...lol...
- The bloody footprints are not blood because they could have been isolated soil, fruit juice or spinach events that AK and her bf of one week don't remember. That one was right in front of the murder room is just a coincidence, that one print had mixed DNA in it is just normal, and that one print matched the bloody bathmat print is just another expert error.
- That the bathmat footprint was subscribed to RS is also an expert error. After all, there is only 4 sizes difference between RS and RG. And that hammer toe thing? Just cut off a piece of the big toe, and claim RG merged his big and 2nd toe together. Problem solved.
- The DNA on the knife? Another expert error.
- DNA on the bra clasp? Contamination. Just look at some youtube video
- Staged break-in? No, there is a scratch on the wall. Break-in proven.
- Confession? What confession? The police coerced them in an hour or 2. That RS doesn't want to correct himself in court is his good right. That AK confirmed her confession in writing the next day doesn't count either. She didn't mean it like that.
- Witnesses? All druggies, or deaf. Don't count.

This case is actually so simple. Anyway, I am waiting for some real news on the case. Nothing much going on. Frank's case has no bearing on the Meredith Kercher case. I don't understand why Websleuths is allowing the derailment. All JMO

Given the almost daily revelations of incompetence by ILE and corrupt attempts by the prosecutor to silence all criticism--not to mention the general Italian judicial weirdness that refuses to allow the testing of semen on the victim's pillow--I have no idea why you have confidence in any of the items on your list.

 

[SMK]

I did not say my mind was irrevocably made up, I said I am able to make up my own mind. I've already changed my mind about this case once.



Given the almost daily revelations of incompetence by ILE and corrupt attempts by the prosecutor to silence all criticism--not to mention the general Italian judicial weirdness that refuses to allow the testing of semen on the victim's pillow--I have no idea why you have confidence in any of the items on your list.

My thoughts exactly, brother. When considering the "experts", the list reads like an expose.

 

[wasnt_me]

I've read all the posts. What question is it that you think I didn't answer ... I'll do my best to get the right answer.

So this summary of the trial is more reliable than you missing a little of the other case? to clarify, you watched this trial yourself. The summary report has been translated by people who were not court appointed. Unless I am wrong that someone at PMF translated it. So I can't see how that's more reliable than what you saw yourself, even if you missed some of it.

So no one can question the case for guilt that was made?

How exactly are the cases for innocence selective and why do they not work?

these questions.

THe last one refers to the knox case. You said our cases for innocence were selective, I assume based on selective facts and you said the cases did not work. I'm asking how they are selective and why they do not work.

The other two questions might be self explanatory.

 

[wasnt_me]

You're right. She wasn't tricked into naming Rudy, and she wasn't even tricked into naming Raffaele. The guys she named were other guys. She did name the guy downstairs ... and others. Funny thing is that she went on and on with Patrick and her roommates about PJ or JP (the climbing guy in Japan) saying that she felt guilty about cheating on him with Raffaele, implying that she was in a relationship with him. She recently broke up with him so she was single ... with a lot of guys ... besides Raffaele. Weird that Knox told so many people that she was still seeing the guy from Seattle when they both accepted that their lives were going in different directions ... and were no longer seeing each other.

The prison doctor didn't tell her that she had HIV to get her to list her sexual partners. The doctor told her that tests came back positive, but that it was probably a false positive and not to worry. She went back to her room and tried to figure out how she got AIDS ... listed her partners and methods of contraception in her prison diary. Not surprisingly, the prison diary was confiscated.

I don't see that relationship the same way, if the statements you mention about it are true. I do not know because I have heard very little about this relationship; however, if she was only going to be gone from home a certain amount of time and she would see him when she returned, then it would stand to reason that she would feel guilty about being with another man--if she still had feelings for the guy, broken up or just on a break, either way.

It is not my understanding that their lives were going in two different directions, just that they'd both chosen to study abroad for a period of time and thought it was only fair to be single during that time frame.

I don't know about this "a lot of guys besides RS." She listed 7 guys that she'd slept with in her lifetime. Can you clarity what "number" this "a lot of guys" is and direct me where I can find proof that she was lying about only having 7 sex partners in her life?

What I stated was someone else's theory of why she got tested. Since you are debating that theory, upon what fact are you basing that they did NOT give her this test to get her to list her sexual partners? upon what fact are you basing it that she didn't go to her diary to list those partners for that reason?

Please also provide some proof that she and this guy were indeed broken up and didn't just decide to take a break from the relationship while they were in other countries.

I don't know who the "So many people" is that you claim she told, but I'd also like to have some verification that she was running around telling anyone who'd listen about her business.

If it's not true, then it's probably a bad idea to make her out to look like a sex crazed blabber mouth.

I only ask because blatant statements are often made about AK that lend to her "poor character," but they are often made without regard for whether or not they are true. At this juncture, it is important to be precise and truthful, not taking for granted hearsay about her character.