Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12

[wasnt_me]

Meredith Kercher is the victim in this murder.

How far are people willing to go to go against the jury's decision regarding the verdict?

I don't understand the purpose of this post. Please clarify.

 

[wasnt_me]

On the subject of the HIV test, I want to add that I am a gay man of a certain age. I lived in NYC through the early early years of the AIDS epidemic (when there were more cases there even than in SF), when there was no government research and nobody had a clue as to the cause. I lived in New York and L.A. through the worst years of young men dying in droves, and I lost many friends and a brother. I remember well when tests were first developed and the many controversies that arose over testing and privacy.

I've been tested myself at least half-a-dozen times, not because I'm actually at risk (having been monogamous with the same partner since the mid-70s), but because if you're a gay man and go to a new doctor, the doctor can't rest until he gets that test. (I understand why: patients often lie to their doctors; so I say, "Sure, go ahead and test again.")

IN ALL THAT TIME, I've yet to encounter a single acquaintance who threw a false positive. This site puts the number of false positives at 15 per 1,000 tests and says those can be quickly solved with a second test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_test



SO I AM HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS that AK somehow accidentally turned out to be one of the lucky 15. I believe:

1. ILE was just looking for more dirt to fuel the "Foxy Knoxy" story they were pushing in the press and that Mignini wanted for trial; or

2. As wasnt_me's link suggests, they were hoping AK would list RG as a former sex partner and they could use that list to solve the lack of apparent connection between RG and AK/RS. (Thanks for suggesting this, wasn't_me.)

EITHER WAY, I find the conduct of ILE disgusting. The fact that they then turned around leaked AK's list of sex partners to the press is, well... Words fail me.

Thanks for opening up with that part of your life so we could get a real picture about this HIV tests.

 

[wasnt_me]

If the prosecutor is responsible for convictions, why would any legal system bother with judges and juries?

If they are not responsible for convictions, then why do they care so much about their track records of convictions?

 

[wasnt_me]

I don't agree. Even Dempsey says in her book that Amanda took it upon herself to list her sex partners.

Again, you said Dempsey's book was trash. Why now are you relying on it for cites? Either you believe what she wrote or you're cherry-picking or being "selective" as you accused the pro-innocence side of being.

 

[wasnt_me]

In the big picture of Knox, should she take responsibility for anything, or is everything someone else's fault?

In the big picture of Mignini, should he take responsibility for anything, or is everything someone else's fault?

 

[wasnt_me]

Ummmmmm? okie???? Confuse me? what are you talking about? :waitasec: we CLEARLY said it was fully understandable that Patrick was angry. That his anger was justified. Please name the "people here" who would have "no hard feelings" if someone destroyed us? It ain't SMK or Nova. So who? what post are you referring to?????????

As I was the first person to tell Otto these things, you should have added me to the list of those who hadn't said that.

 

[SMK]

In the big picture of Mignini, should he take responsibility for anything, or is everything someone else's fault?

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[wasnt_me]

That is not what has been reported elsewhere.

Where did Dempsey get her information?

She didn't get it from anywhere, because she didn't say it, at least not in her book, she didn't.

AMANDA had far worse things to worry over than her portrayal in British tabloids. In fact, she was feeling very frightened, as she described in her diary on November 22:

Last night before I went to bed I was taken down to see yet another doctor who I haven’t yet met before. He had my results from a test they took—which says I’m positive for HIV. First of all the guy told me not to worry, it could be a mistake, they’re going to take a second test next week. I don’t want to die. I want to get married and have children. I want to create something good. I want to get old. I want my time. I want my life. Why why why? I can’t believe this. She then dutifully made a list of everyone she’d ever had sex with, describing the birth control method used with each. Then a week later, a prison official told her not to worry, that she didn’t have HIV after all. When the English tabloids leaked that page of her diary in June 2008, they claimed, erroneously, that she’d boasted of her sexual conquests and had had “seven lovers in sixty days in Italy,” even though the diary stated that seven was her lifetime total of lovers.

Dempsey, Candace (2010). Murder in Italy: The Shocking Slaying of a British Student, the Accused American Girl, and anInternational Scandal (Kindle Locations 3739-3747). Berkley. Kindle Edition.

 

[SMK]

As I was the first person to tell Otto these things, you should have added me to the list of those who hadn't said that.

You are SO right, SORRY!!! and I only limited it to myself and Nova, because in the time frame of the remarks, we were the posts he was responding to. :seeya:

 

[wasnt_me]

The truth is, AK's diary does not indicate the reason she made the list. This is why the man I quoted was making up a theory as to why she did it.

It is reasonable that after telling someone they might have HIV, a doctor would follow up by saying that she might want to contact her past partners, so they can be tested.

This is a reasonable reason for making the list since she did have the ability to contact the outside world.

It is also reasonable that she just wanted to write it out and figure out who could have given it to her.

It is thirdly not out of the realm of possibility that they staged the HIV scare, as they accuse her of staging the breakin, so they could get written proof that she actually knew and had a sexual relationship with RG. They might also have been trying to plant a reason for AK and RS to turn on each other within the two weeks that she had to wait for a second test. They might have also been looking for women to be on that list to prove that AK was into women, and thereby bolster their sex game claim.

I didn't ANY OF THIS WAS FACT, so believe it or don't.

 

[SMK]

Just thought this "Mignini Shock" footage was interesting; Artistically , it captures the l range and scope of all that is good and bad in him, in brief bits of footage: Reminds me of Michael Moore's cuts of W Bush in Farenheit 9-11:

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http://www.king5.com/news/Blog--121672114.html

 

[wasnt_me]

You are SO right, SORRY!!! and I only limited it to myself and Nova, because in the time frame of the remarks, we were the posts he was responding to. :seeya:

It's okay. I got snubbed at the Ocars, too! :websleuther:

Conveniently for me, Allusonz will have my new wine hat with the rubber bottle ready soon, then, I won't even remember......

 

[wasnt_me]

Just thought this "Mignini Shock" footage was interesting; Artistically , it captures the l range and scope of all that is good and bad in him, in brief bits of footage: Reminds me of Michael Moore's cuts of W Bush in Farenheit 9-11:

http://www.king5.com/news/Blog--121672114.html

Yeah, that makes him sound obsessed and crazy, sue-happy, and vengeful. It really made him sound as if he had a vendetta against the Knoxs, as well.

Suing AK, suing her parents for repeating her, and counter-appealing for even MORE years, when RG got his sentence sliced in half.

Oh, Mignini will NOT let AK get the best of him, but he might shoot his own foot off, trying to prove he was right to put her behind bars. Because now, going after the press like this....It's too much bad publicity for him at his critical time. He showing himself to be a petty man. Especially by suing a journalist for quoting what someone else said or AK's parents for quoting what SHE said. He shouldn't even be allowed to do that.

 

[wasnt_me]

Bruce Fisher, writer of Injustice in Perugia wrote this article yesterday:

http://www.groundreport.com/World/Amanda-Knox-Prosecutor-Continues-Abuse-of-Power-to/2938969

The attacks coming from Quennell and Ganong against Frank Sfarzo are very telling. I would ask anyone who looks to their websites for information on the Amanda Knox case to ask themselves, what kind of person would condone the harassment of a journalist or a blogger, no matter what side of this debate he or she stands on?



Frank Sfarzo deserves the support of anyone who believes in the right to free speech. Those currently fighting so hard against him need to stop and think about what they are actually fighting for.

Another article, this one about sex crazed journalists reporting on the case:

http://www.groundreport.com/US/Amanda-Knox-A-Case-Dominated-By-Sexual-Obsession/2938824

 

[otto]

Can you quote and give the page #? Did not Dempsey say that she took it upon herself after having been told she tested positive for HIV? And was not Amanda's list an incredulous one? She was dumbfounded as to how on earth she might have contracted the AIDS virus?

I could take the time to find the exact page, but I doubt it will make any difference to those that want to perceive Amanda as not responsible for anything that happens in her life. There has been plenty of discussion about who released the list of sex partners ... specifically that it was released by the family to demonstrate that Amanda was being psychologically tortured into believing that she was HIV positive. All of this information makes no difference. Instead, some people want to believe that Amanda was forced to make the list, and then police released it. All the discussion about what happened is ignored if it means that Amanda is responsible for Amanda's actions.

 

[SMK]

I could take the time to find the exact page, but I doubt it will make any difference to those that want to perceive Amanda as not responsible for anything that happens in her life. There has been plenty of discussion about who released the list of sex partners ... specifically that it was released by the family to demonstrate that Amanda was being psychologically tortured into believing that she was HIV positive. All of this information makes no difference. Instead, some people want to believe that Amanda was forced to make the list, and then police released it. All the discussion about what happened is ignored if it means that Amanda is responsible for Amanda's actions.

I do believe of course that Amanda bears responsibility for her actions. But in unusual circumstances, there are mitigating factors, as it were. IF it is true that Knox is innocent, but that Mignini et al could not let go of their original theory, and began to harass her to the end of maintaining it, it is an unusual situation that she was in. Otto, please understand that those of us who believe that prosecuting her may have been a grave error, do not in general make excuses for people, nor do we think Amanda is perfect, or wonderful. It is just the lack of solid evidence and the appearance of overzealous prosecution which is "driving" us. I admire your ethics and your idea of personal responsibility, but I think it may be clouding your judgement when it comes to Mignini versus Amanda, just as it is clouding Mignini's. In a sense , Mignini (and you yourself) reminds me of the noble Javert - so ethical, so dedicated, but so subject to mania and fixed thinking - in Victor Hugo's Les Miserables. There is beauty there, but danger and delusion as well.

 

[otto]

I do believe of course that Amanda bears responsibility for her actions. But in unusual circumstances, there are mitigating factors, as it were. IF it is true that Knox is innocent, but that Mignini et al could not let go of their original theory, and began to harass her to the end of maintaining it, it is an unusual situation that she was in. Otto, please understand that those of us who believe that prosecuting her may have been a grave error, do not in general make excuses for people, nor do we think Amanda is perfect, or wonderful. It is just the lack of solid evidence and the appearance of overzealous prosecution which is "driving" us. I admire your ethics and your idea of personal responsibility, but I think it may be clouding your judgement when it comes to Mignini versus Amanda, just as it is clouding Mignini's. In a sense , Mignini (and you yourself) reminds me of the noble Javert - so ethical, so dedicated, but so subject to mania and fixed thinking - in Victor Hugo's Les Miserables. There is beauty there, but danger and delusion as well.

Prosecutors Comodi and Mignini did not find Amanda and Raffaele guilty of murder. I fail to understand why, in this case alone, the prosecutors are held responsible for the decision of a jury. This was a trial where several defense lawyers and experts presented their interpretation of the evidence. Because they failed to present a convincing case, the prosecutors are criticized for presenting a solid case. It doesn't stop there. The jury has been accused of being unable to base the verdict on the evidence presented in court because they were not sequestered. The Brad Cooper jury was not sequestered either, but we don't hear suggestions that they were unable to base the verdict on what was presented in court. Apparently it is only Italian juries that are unable to follow the judge's instructions. The Italian legal system is different from the legal system in the US. So what. Nearly every legal system is different from the US system. That doesn't mean every other legal system is corrupt, it means that there are different legal systems in this world.

The jury noted after the verdict that statements Amanda voluntarily made were critical in their decision. The prosecutors are not responble for the words that pop out of Amanda's mouth, yet so many excuses are made for the convicted murderer. Based on what I've seen discussed here, there is an excuse for absolutely everything Amanda said and did. I get the impression that Amanda's life was nothing but a series of others making excuses for her behavior ... think back to her parents claims of "oh, that's just Amanda." I suppose it is, it's just Amanda doing whatever Amanda wants and everyone letting it go as "that's just Amanda." She's convicted of murder, but that's just Amanda being Amanda and it's not her fault ... blame the media, the prosecutors, the investigators, the forensic analysts, the forensic lab, the jury, the judge, the judicial system ... anyone but Amanda.

The evidence is not restricted to a knife and bra clasp, and the fact that DNA evidence that was already tested cannot be retested years later is not surprising. How often is DNA evidence subjected to retesting in order to release convicted prisoners? I've never heard of it before. Let's eliminate the knife and bra clasp. We are still left with a bucket full of evidence starting with problematic alibis, numerous lies, an unexplained staged break in and so much more that has been discussed ad nauseum for four years. For each piece of evidence convicting Amanda, there is a different person to blame ... one great big conspiracy ... one that some have called anti-Americanism in Italy. Yep, the entire country is out to get Amanda.

 

[otto]

If they are not responsible for convictions, then why do they care so much about their track records of convictions?

Prosecutors in the US care about their conviction record because they are elected. A poor conviction rate for US prosecutors means they could be out of a job. In most countries, prosecutors are hired into full time positions. They care more about justice than winning, and losing a case does not mean they could lose their job.

 

[otto]

She didn't get it from anywhere, because she didn't say it, at least not in her book, she didn't.

AMANDA had far worse things to worry over than her portrayal in British tabloids. In fact, she was feeling very frightened, as she described in her diary on November 22:

Last night before I went to bed I was taken down to see yet another doctor who I haven’t yet met before. He had my results from a test they took—which says I’m positive for HIV. First of all the guy told me not to worry, it could be a mistake, they’re going to take a second test next week. I don’t want to die. I want to get married and have children. I want to create something good. I want to get old. I want my time. I want my life. Why why why? I can’t believe this. She then dutifully made a list of everyone she’d ever had sex with, describing the birth control method used with each. Then a week later, a prison official told her not to worry, that she didn’t have HIV after all. When the English tabloids leaked that page of her diary in June 2008, they claimed, erroneously, that she’d boasted of her sexual conquests and had had “seven lovers in sixty days in Italy,” even though the diary stated that seven was her lifetime total of lovers.

Dempsey, Candace (2010). Murder in Italy: The Shocking Slaying of a British Student, the Accused American Girl, and anInternational Scandal (Kindle Locations 3739-3747). Berkley. Kindle Edition.

Where does it say that police forced Knox to list her sex partners?

 

[SMK]

Where does it say that police forced Knox to list her sex partners?

The telling her she had tested positive, in itself would compel one to list one's partners, no?