Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12

[OldSteve]

Prosecutors in the US care about their conviction record because they are elected. A poor conviction rate for US prosecutors means they could be out of a job. In most countries, prosecutors are hired into full time positions. They care more about justice than winning, and losing a case does not mean they could lose their job.

Similarly, an over zealous prosecutor can be thrown out. My fear with lifelong positions - Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[Nova]

Oh, OK. Well, I believe justice should hold supremacy over egos and reputations, but perhaps not too realistic....

That's why we have an "adversary" system, SMK. The egos of the prosecution and defense are supposed to cancel each other out so that truth, and therefore justice, can emerge.

Doesn't always work, of course, but I've yet to hear of a better system. (And, no, I'm not one to insist that Americans always do everything best. But a brief look at the problems in the Perugia case suggests numerous problems with that system.)

 

[wasnt_me]

Where does it say that police forced Knox to list her sex partners?

You are the one who cited Dempsey, claiming she said something that she didn't say. I never did that.

 

[wasnt_me]

Prosecutors in the US care about their conviction record because they are elected. A poor conviction rate for US prosecutors means they could be out of a job. In most countries, prosecutors are hired into full time positions. They care more about justice than winning, and losing a case does not mean they could lose their job.

If this is the case for Italy, then someone should tell Mignini to stop trying so hard to throw innocent people in jail. Yes, of course I have a list of innocent people he has persecuted, starting with that serial killer debacle of his. And it went on and on from there.

And you can't tell me, that elected or appointed, these people will maintain their jobs if they don't have high conviction rates. So they DO care about their conviction rates. It's ludicras to think they do not just because they are appointed. Unless you are seriously trying to tell me there is no way any appointed official can lose his job for not doing his job well.

 

[wasnt_me]

In this sense, America has an inferior, unethical system. Yuck.

Italy has a major breakdown in its system by allowing the prosecutor to also investigate the case and then try the case. They gave prosecutors special unelected appointments to keep them from being pressured by the mob, but in effect, I think the power of their position has gone to mig's head.

 

[miley]

Amanda's parents contributed to the cost for her summer vacation and one semester study abroad. If the story has changed into Knox saving all the money, then the story has indeed changed in the last 4 years.

Calling Knox dull says nothing about me. Knox is dull ... and odd. She sings too loud at inappropriate times in inappropriate places. Her "art" is childish. Her "short stories" are violent and disorganized. She lies in very shocking ways with serious consequences to others. She is crass and swears like a prisoner. Sure she saved some money to travel. Good for her.

funny you should call her artwork childish considering most adults aren't able to draw beyond a third/fourth grade level... technically, her work is actually better than average

and childish is hardly an insult anyway, especially to someone like Picasso!

_______________

so what if her parents gave her money? it only strengthens the argument over who the actual thief is.

 

[wasnt_me]

So then the books written by authors such as Stephen King tell us what type of person he really is? Does this mean that Stephen King would rape several women, strangle them, leave their bodies in a ditch on the side of a road simply because he has written a story about a character doing that exact thing? That really seems to be pushing it to me. Dean Koontz is another that has written some very scary things, is he also writting about what is in his mind, what he wants or has done? That seems like a very disturbing thought process to me. If that were the case then we would have to arrest the majority of authors, film-makers, and even some artists. And what of the people (like myself) who reads those books, watches those movies or tv shows or even buys those pieces of art? Should they also be looked at as a person that has evil in their hearts and minds?

We've told Otto this collectively at least twice before. because he keeps insisting to the contrary, saying that this type of writing is a window to the mind, it's safe to say that he thinks Stephen King ought to be getting mental help instead of millions of dollars.

 

[wasnt_me]

I've tried to read all of the posts here but I have a question that may or may not have already been answered. If this has been answered can someone please point me to the post or posts that answer it, please and thank you.

Doesn't matter. We quite OFTEN repeat ourselves. What did Nova just say the definition of insanity was?:rocker: It'd be best to let a pro-guilt person answer you but I'll take a shot.

So my question is this..........what evidence is there that puts AK and RG in the room that MK was murdered in? Other than the supposed bra clasp dna that was left to sit on the floor for an extended period of time before it was decided to possibly be evidence.

Nothing.

Also I would like to know how could AK and RG have cleaned up anything that had their dna or prints on in the room that MK was found in but to have still had so much dna and prints of RS that did not get cleaned up? That sounds to me like something that is not even close to being possible. And if no dna or prints of AK and RG were not found in that room then how could they possibly have been involved?

It is impossible to clean up "around" RG's evidence, but manage to wipe away every SINGLE trace, invisible and visible of your own, while leaving RG's perfectly intact. Case in point, the tiny hallway where they claim luminol showed AK's footprints. Perfectly outlined footprints NOT in blood, which was undoubtly in the path of RG's bloody exit prints. Those "AK" prints were not wiped or blotted as if any attempt was made to clean them, but the prosecution says that in the murder room, AK and RS actually found all their footprints, fingerprints, visible and invisible and wiped them clean while managing to leave all the blood spatter and RG's evidence perfectly intact.

As far as the end of your post, it kind of sounds to me like you knew what my answers were going to be. :}

 

[wasnt_me]

I agree with your last two paragraphs. As for what proofs there are, this list was made by Sherlock, and the refutations are satirical, but I actually think that none of this is indeed proof:
- The mixed blood/DNA trail left by AK right after the murder would have convicted them by itself, but no...it is all normal because she lived there...lol...
- The bloody footprints are not blood because they could have been isolated soil, fruit juice or spinach events that AK and her bf of one week don't remember. That one was right in front of the murder room is just a coincidence, that one print had mixed DNA in it is just normal, and that one print matched the bloody bathmat print is just another expert error.
- That the bathmat footprint was subscribed to RS is also an expert error. After all, there is only 4 sizes difference between RS and RG. And that hammer toe thing? Just cut off a piece of the big toe, and claim RG merged his big and 2nd toe together. Problem solved.
- The DNA on the knife? Another expert error.
- DNA on the bra clasp? Contamination. Just look at some youtube video
- Staged break-in? No, there is a scratch on the wall. Break-in proven.
- Confession? What confession? The police coerced them in an hour or 2. That RS doesn't want to correct himself in court is his good right. That AK confirmed her confession in writing the next day doesn't count either. She didn't mean it like that.
- Witnesses? All druggies, or deaf. Don't count.

I know you were trying to help, but this list is not factual and should be buried, not repeated.

 

[wasnt_me]

We know when and why Patrick said that Amanda has no soul. Why is there such a problem with this? That's what he believes. He formed this opinion through knowing and interacting with Knox.

Again, you forget the original debate. You are the one who said AK has no soul. You said you got it from PL's statement. You were discussing your opinion of Knox with Nova when it was discovered that you got your opinion of Knox from PL.

Now you are saying it's what he believes. A few pages back, it is exactly how you described AK, so it's also what you asserted was AK's demeanor. That is why we are discussing it, because we told you that no trial spectator should assert for fact anything about AK's personality because they do NOT know her personally. They only know lies from the media. We already told you that PL has a right to his opinion, but he only knew the girl 6 weeks before she did something he considered reprehensible. So of course he has this view of her. Does not mean it's the whole picture of who she is.

I implore you to keep with the discussion because otherwise, we go in circles just like this.:innocent:

 

[SMK]

I know you were trying to help, but this list is not factual and should be buried, not repeated.

Well, I only used it because:
1. I could not think of all the purported evidence off the top of my head to answer her question.
2. I knew this list was handy
3. I wanted to show that the sarcasm could be ignored and actually points to lack of evidence. :innocent:

 

[wasnt_me]

Yeah, I know, but I just cringe at the wrongness of the list, and besides, Allusonz hasn't given me my wine hat, yet, so I'm on edge!

:maddening:

When I read something like that, I just shake my head because it's just so obviously uninformed, possibly written to incite someone, as well. I have no idea when it's going to be accepted by pro-guilts what Luminol is actually used for and what step 2 of luminol testing requires if the luminol reacts. I hate to say it, but anyone who isn't studied luminol doesn't make themselves look very good when they are sarcastic about the luminol results in this case. And that's just ONE thing about that list that's wrong.

 

[SMK]

Yeah, I know, but I just cringe at the wrongness of the list, and besides, Allusonz hasn't given me my wine hat, yet, so I'm on edge!

:maddening:

When I read something like that, I just shake my head because it's just so obviously uninformed, possibly written to incite someone, as well. I have no idea when it's going to be accepted by pro-guilts what Luminol is actually used for and what step 2 of luminol testing requires if the luminol reacts. I hate to say it, but anyone who isn't studied luminol doesn't make themselves look very good when they are sarcastic about the luminol results in this case. And that's just ONE thing about that list that's wrong.

Hope you get your wine hat, and yeah, that list sort of irritated me as well. I did not want to ignore her question, but did not have the time to think, so grabbed what was handy. Agreed, it is uninformed, and that is what is so maddening about those who are sure the convictions are just. It is based on illusion and a hodgepodge of half-truths.

 

[wasnt_me]

Article with commentary about google's decision. Opinion blog of a lawyer, looks like.

http://www.grahamlawyerblog.com/tag/giuliano-mignini/

 

[wasnt_me]

I don't know if this has ever been put up, but it's Knox's appeal in English:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/46866102/Appeal-Amanda-English


http://www.docstoc.com/docs/46866334/Apeal-Raffaele-English

 

[Malkmus]

yeah, well those authors aren't in prison, convicted of murder.

makes a slight difference in what I think.

that must be meredith just being meredith. i wonder if that description might explain what happened that night? and that italy got it right, even if their process was flawed.

its certainly possible.

It's important to remember what exactly we're talking about here. The way Otto describes these stories he makes it sound as if Amanda was glorifying or exploiting the acts of rape and drug abuse, almost as if these are fantasy stories about those subject matters. The "Baby Brother" story is about an older brother reprimanding his younger brother for raping a girl, and contains no actual rape in it - it's all the aftermath. This is pretty in tune with any Lifetime made for TV movie, if you ask me... or an afterschool special. If it were a movie it would be rated PG. There are no curse words. There is no rape. There is no drug use.

The second story written in prison, speculated to be written by Amanda, is about a man who finds the girl he loves overdosed on drugs and tells her goodbye as she is taken to the hospital. Again. Why the over-embellishment of these stories? Perhaps Otto can explain just what's so offensive and telling about them...

 

[wasnt_me]

I'm trying to find information on Mignini specifically. About his judicial history. I wanted to know stuff like where he graduated, what makes him qualified to be appointed to the position, etc. I'm interested because if he's the lead investigator on crimes, I want to know what kind of police investigative training he has or had to embark upon in order to take the position.

Anyone know where to look?

 

[wasnt_me]

This was kind of what I was looking for, but if anyone has specific info about Mig's background, I'd appreciate it.

Douglas Preston, who knows from personal experience how the system works, had this to say: “Prosecutors are firmly in charge. They tell the police what to look for, where to go, what evidence to analyze, what evidence not to analyze. In America, the police work independently and are specifically trained in evidence gathering and criminal investigation. In Italy, the police must do what the prosecutor tells them. As a result, many criminal investigations in Italy are botched by prosecutors who are judges, trained in the law, who have no background in criminal investigation, police work, or forensic science.”

Fisher, Bruce (2011). Injustice in Perugia: a book detailing the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito (p. 249). Kindle Edition.

 

[SMK]

I'm trying to find information on Mignini specifically. About his judicial history. I wanted to know stuff like where he graduated, what makes him qualified to be appointed to the position, etc. I'm interested because if he's the lead investigator on crimes, I want to know what kind of police investigative training he has or had to embark upon in order to take the position.

Anyone know where to look?

I have looked too, and only come up with articles, not a full bio. The most I ever read of him was on Douglass Preston's blog, which I can now no longer find....

 

[SMK]

The things that I had gleaned about Giuliano Mignini from Preston - besides his frightening behavior during Preston's interrogation - were not professional, but personal: That he is very provincial and old school Perugia; a classical Roman Catholic; that he is very suspicious of the "new order"; that he was somewhat literal-minded; that he had consulted an occult person about satanic sex rituals going on in the MOF case. Add to this, we know he was convicted of abuse of office, sentenced to 16 months in prison, scolded by the Florence high judge, and had 20 indictments thrown out. So AK and RS were up against a formidable man.