Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #13

[wasnt_me]

In response to:



This is all I have ever seen:

What is this picture and where does it come from?

 

[otto]

For an understanding of the Italian Appeal Process ... same link.

"The appeal process in the Italian judicial system is disciplined by art. 593 et seq. of the Italian Code of Penal Procedure (CPP).

Both the defendant and the prosecution have the right to appeal a sentence, according to the principle of parity of the two parties in a judicial process. In 2006 a law passed by the Berlusconi government (known as “Pecorella Law”, from the name of his sponsor), intended to prohibit the right of appeal of the prosecutor, similarly to what happens in the US, however the Italian Constitutional Court struck down that law as unconstitutional since it is in violation of the parity of the two parties in the process, as explained above. As a result the CPP has been modified to reflect its original version.

It is to be noted however, that if only the defendant requests an appeal (and not the prosecution), then the appeal court can only confirm or decrease the sentence of the first trial, but not increase it.

Since Mignini has already said that they won’t appeal the case, Amanda and Raffaele are likely to see their jail sentence decreased by a few years, or at most confirmed, but not increased. Art. 575 of the Italian Penal Code however prescribes a minimum of 21 years for voluntary homicide.

The principle of “double jeopardy”, which is also guaranteed by Italian law and by the law of all members of the European Union as condition of membership, does not apply to the appeal trial, as such trial is interpreted as being a mere continuation of the same first trial. The double jeopardy principle will therefore apply only after the sentence is definitive, i.e. after the Supreme Court of Cassation decision. In other words if Amanda and Raffaele are found not guilty after all the appeals are exhausted, the Italian state will not be able to try them again in the future.

This characteristic is not unique to Italy, most European countries, in fact, apply the double jeopardy only after all appeals have exhausted, among these Germany and France, which also permit the appeal by the prosecution.

The competence of the appeal process is disciplined by art 594 of the CPP. Such article establishes that the Appeal Court of Assizes has jurisdiction over the sentences rendered by the Court of Assizes. The Court of Assizes is the court in Italy which tries serious crimes, that is those crimes for which the penal code provides a maximum punishment of at least 24 years."

There is much more at the link:

Tuesday, December 08, 2009
Explaining How The Italian Appeals Process Works - And Why It Is Now So Slow
Posted by Commissario Montalbano

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C431/

 

[wasnt_me]

I don't get it. I'm perplexed at why anyone is entertaining conversation about this photograph. What about all the appeals information I keep pulling out of the appeal?

Proving Otto wrong about this photo, that you already know is a red herring to upset you, is more important than talking about the appeal?

 

[SMK]

Would you ever say that about Laci Peterson's mother? That she is simply wrong? What about all the other victims where the guilty parties complain that their sweet little angel couldn't have committed murder? Is it reasonable to suggest that after the verdict, the victim's family is simply wrong and the guilty parties are the victims?

NO! I would NOT say that about Laci Peterson's Mom, because he had motive (Amber Frey) and had already told Frey he was "a widower" before Laci even went missing. And there is no Rudy Guede burglar in the picture! What about convictions which ARE overturned? What say the victims' families???

 

[SMK]

I don't get it. I'm perplexed at why anyone is entertaining conversation about this photograph. What about all the appeals information I keep pulling out of the appeal?

Proving Otto wrong about this photo, that you already know is a red herring to upset you, is more important than talking about the appeal?

Waasnt_me: It is 89 degrees here and I cannot run the AC because it gives my son an earache. I am broiling in this sweltering heat, cannot think straight to read all those pages.:hot::hot::tears::tears:

 

[wasnt_me]

With all due respect, what difference does it make whether the kerchers believe in the guilt or innocence?

 

[SMK]

What is this picture and where does it come from?

It is from this page, scroll down for the pic.............http://aklwei.wordpress.com/appeal-status/

 

[otto]

NO! I would NOT say that about Laci Peterson's Mom, because he had motive (Amber Frey) and had already told Frey he was "a widower" before Laci even went missing. And there is no Rudy Guede burglar in the picture! What about convictions which ARE overturned? What say the victims' families???

There are relatively few cases where the wrong verdict was determined. It is not the norm, and not common. In some cases, the victim's family agrees that the verdict was incorrect. For example, there is a case that has been raised here a few times ... three young boys murdered, three teenage boys found guilty. In that case, some of the victim's families agree that there was a mistake.

In the murder of Meredith Kercher, the family is completely unimpressed by the complaints from the murderers.

 

[otto]

With all due respect, what difference does it make whether the kerchers believe in the guilt or innocence?

So no one cares what those representing the victim think?

Why doesn't that surprise me.

 

[wasnt_me]

Thanks. Still can't see where the information is coming from. I mean the information that confirms ALL OTHER things in the appeal are denied.

Also this bubble picture is only about Ak's appeal doc, not RS's.

 

[otto]

"The defence have argued that as [bra clasp DNA] was found six weeks after the crime was committed it was not valid. This ignores the fact that people have been convicted on DNA discovered up to 17 years after a crime.

The prosecution have stated the knife and bra clasp are but two of the many reasons as to why guilt points to them.

Between them, Knox and Sollecito are said to have changed their alibis nine times.

It is not up to me to ascertain guilt. I only want justice for Meredith. "

By John Kercher
21 May 2011
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...t-may-undermine-conviction.html#ixzz1Nt2sXOFp

 

[SMK]

Thanks. Still can't see where the information is coming from. I mean the information that confirms ALL OTHER things in the appeal are denied.

Also this bubble picture is only about Ak's appeal doc, not RS's.

I know--unfortunately, it is all I have to work with......

 

[SMK]

Otto: I understand that the Kerchers believe the correct 3 people were convicted. But the case is nevertheless being appealed, and there is a potential for the convictions to be overturned. IF this occurs, then the Kerchers might rethink things. I know it is not common. But it is really for the courts, and not the victim's family, to decide. I know you will say, "But they were convicted." Well, as Giuliano Mignini says about his own conviction, "Well, it is in appeal.".

 

[wasnt_me]

I know--unfortunately, it is all I have to work with......

It's okay. I will eventually find it--or not.

Not that I take TJMK as a real source for information but the only place I find something that says what the appeal process is in Italy is here:

As mentioned above, the appeal process in Italy is a brand new trial where all evidence and testimony is analyzed in the same terms as the first trial. The standards are however higher. The president of the Appeal Court of Assizes is in fact a judge from the Supreme Court of Cassation (the members of the Supreme Court are actually called “Consiglieri&#8221. The requisites for being one of the 6 jurors are also higher. They must be all holding a high school degree (in the first trial the minimum required is only a middle school education).

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php..._appeals_process_works_and_why_it_is_now_so_/

If they are correct, then this appeals session should last a heck of a lot longer than they say it will. And if they are correct, it's the precise reason I keep trying to understand this appeals document because if they are right, we will be hearing about more of what's in it later.

 

[Monzoo]

Wasn't_Me,

My understanding of the appeal is that Helmann approved three things to look at initially -- Cuartolo, the bra clasp, and the knife. I believe that he reserved the right to open up all other issues at a later date. (In the way that the three prisoners who have said that they have information are scheduled to testify while the court is awaiting the DNA results.)

In other words, we don't know what other "new" information he will decide to consider. The trial is supposed to be "de novo," however -- which means that the entire testimony record will be used by Hellmann and the other jurors to arrive at their decision.

I will see if I can find this info.

 

[otto]

Otto: I understand that the Kerchers believe the correct 3 people were convicted. But the case is nevertheless being appealed, and there is a potential for the convictions to be overturned. IF this occurs, then the Kerchers might rethink things. I know it is not common. But it is really for the courts, and not the victim's family, to decide. I know you will say, "But they were convicted." Well, as Giuliano Mignini says about his own conviction, "Well, it is in appeal.".

The victim's family is focused on the fact that two pieces of DNA are but a small piece of the total evidence, that two of the murderers changed their alibis 9 times and that even thought DNA was found 6 weeks after the murder, that time delay is meaningless in the big picture. Why are these facts of the case not discussed? Instead, every excuse in the book is provided for two of the murderers, excuses that even they didn't come up with.

I am convinced that if Meredith was from the US and Knox was from the UK, the arguments surrounding this case would be very different.

 

[Monzoo]

I found what Frank Sfarzo had to say:

The judge reserved the right to decide –after the results of the DNA study– about the stain on the pillow, the jail witnesses, the audiometric test and other requests. DNA comes first.
As Maori pointed out: Now the trial starts. A long trial, with the lovebirds still attending it from jail.

 

[otto]

Wasn't_Me,

My understanding of the appeal is that Helmann approved three things to look at initially -- Cuartolo, the bra clasp, and the knife. I believe that he reserved the right to open up all other issues at a later date. (In the way that the three prisoners who have said that they have information are scheduled to testify while the court is awaiting the DNA results.)

In other words, we don't know what other "new" information he will decide to consider. The trial is supposed to be "de novo," however -- which means that the entire testimony record will be used by Hellmann and the other jurors to arrive at their decision.

I will see if I can find this info.

From the Meredith Kercher website:

"The Italian appeal is described as a “trial de novo”.

In common law jurisprudence, a trial de novo is simply a new trial, and the jury in a new trial would not even be told of the existence of the first trial. It would be done as if the first trial never happened.

Not so in Italy.

The jury and lay judges have full access to the case dossier, the Massei Motivazione, and the briefs of the parties. They decide which parts of the case should receive new evidence, and the parts where none is needed. If that were not the case, they would not know how to respond to the defense requests.

What the jury has not reopened is, to me, more telling than what is.

It is significant that there is no re-visit on the staging of the burglary. This charge is not just one of the things used to prove the murder, it is also a separate charge which does not require that a person also have participated in the murder.

Let’s suspend disbelief a moment. Suppose AK and RS had not been present during the murder, having ducked out briefly to get more drugs, but returned to discover Meredith’s body.

Suppose they thought they would be suspects because they had let Rudy in and feared they would be blamed, so they staged the burglary to divert suspicion from themselves. In this hypothetical situation, they are still guilty of staging a burglary even if they didn’t otherwise participate in the crime.

So, what to make out of the fact that no further evaluation will be made of the staging?

This seems like the easiest of the charges to prove and the most difficult to defend. Staging is a recognized phenomenon in criminal investigations and the defense expert did not fare well under cross-examination. I don’t see how the court would reverse the judgment on this issue given the state of the record.

Defense criticized the way the dna was collected from the bidet, but there will be no review of that evidence - or of any other of the mixed blood/dna evidence - only the knife and the bra clasp.

If the appellate jurors’ inclination were to think there is reasonable doubt on the dna, there is plenty of defense expert testimony to hang that hat on. That only two of the exhibits will be studied shows that they do not question the work of the scientific police as a whole.

I see evidence of a pattern of sorts in these rulings.

From my own experience, I firmly believe that Hellman has not made up his mind on the final outcome. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he thinks the jury will do with the case.

He clearly knows the case, and I think he knows if there are areas in Massei’s reasoning that have vulnerabilities (not necessarily fatal) that could attract attention in the Court of Cassation.

I think he knows whether the prosecution’s case is a house of cards, or if it is a good case with some curable cosmetic flaws.

To me, the rulings look like the judge has reviewed the case, thinks it is fundamentally sound, and believes it will be backed up by unbiased expert opinion - and if it doesn’t, he will assess what impact that has on the case.

The issue with respect to the scientific police is not that they were biased in the sense of falsifying evidence to wrongfully convict, but that the video of the crime scene investigation showed non-textbook acts, Stefanoni didn’t leave a complete paper trail in testing the knife, and they failed to collect and correctly bag the bra clasp at the beginning.

All of which left an opening for the defense to claim the dna evidence is suspect. There is a reason why teachers don’t let students grade their own papers, I think that concept is behind Hellman’s decision to seek an unbiased review of these two items.

I don’t see signs of exoneration in these rulings.

If Rudy Guede testifies and gives a believable narrative, it may not matter what the two dna reviews say, and it might also undermine the jurors’ inclination to accept the theory of remorse from the covering with the quilt that persuaded Massei to reduce the sentence.

An increased sentence is not out of the question.

I really do not understand why the defense and the family are so happy with this review, which is very limited and not complete in any sense - other than, perhaps, the “any port in a storm” phenomenon.

The bra clasp evidence is not going to go away, and there is the risk that increased technical sophistication could result in identifying a complete dna profile of Amada Knox on it. If they disassemble the knife, there could be abundant blood between the handle and the blade.

From my view in the bleachers, there are way more risks to the defense than to the prosecution from Saturday’s rulings. "

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C431

 

[SMK]

The victim's family is focused on the fact that two pieces of DNA are but a small piece of the total evidence, that two of the murderers changed their alibis 9 times and that even thought DNA was found 6 weeks after the murder, that time delay is meaningless in the big picture. Why are these facts of the case not discussed? Instead, every excuse in the book is provided for two of the murderers, excuses that even they didn't come up with.

I am convinced that if Meredith was from the US and Knox was from the UK, the arguments surrounding this case would be very different.

Possibly. Though I would hope not. Casey Anthony is an American girl, and noone feels any sympathy for her. Of course, the cases are hugely different. There is that "American girl at an Italian University" aspect to the Knox case. I really had no problem believing her guilty, and had no concern for her, until I read Hendry.

 

[wasnt_me]

I found what Frank Sfarzo had to say:

Thanks and they did decide to hear these jailhouse informants.

I appreciate you comming out of the woodwork to inform me.

Oh my, the ignore button is better than my straw wine hat, allusonz! :woohoo: