Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #13

[otto]

I haven't researched this case in depth but I see a number of similarities between this case and the case of Casey Anthony.

In both cases the defendants have changed their story numerous times, thrown innocent people under the bus, taken the investigation as a joke and both have serious lack of remorse.

Ok these symptoms are no evidence of crime but are telling a lot.

Nice observation. Others have also noticed similarities between the two women.

 

[Allusonz]

I haven't researched this case in depth but I see a number of similarities between this case and the case of Casey Anthony.

In both cases the defendants have changed their story numerous times, thrown innocent people under the bus, taken the investigation as a joke and both have serious lack of remorse.

Ok these symptoms are no evidence of crime but are telling a lot.

You are very misinformed. The one that has changed his story numerous times is Mignini. It has gone from a satanic sex ritual to the latest being AK orchestrating the killing from another room. I think that is now number 6

 

[Allusonz]

Nice observation. Others have also noticed similarities between the two women.

You have tried to derail this thread by comparing AK from KH, CA, to thrill killers that you suggest we ourselves look up the case you are referring to by googling it. This continues to undermine your arguments

 

[Allusonz]

I'm not inclined to suggest that all the lawyers representing different parties were dependent on the prosecution for their arguments, but I would agree that the prosecution disclosed their information to all legal parties.

As for information about the thrill kill, look up "thrill kill US teenager" on google for starters. It is a motiveless murder ... other than the thrill.

The prosecution did not disclose all the information. That is illegal. The experts just received the raw data .fsa files and would hope that now the defense has them as well

 

[Allusonz]

You think some CNN talking head is more familiar with the facts of this case than the family? ... or perhaps some character in who knows where that attached themselves to the case ... perhaps a cooking/travel blogger knows more about the trial of Meredith Kercher than her family? I don't think so.

The investigation began with no suspects, and within the first few days a couple emerged. Why should the victim's family doubt the integrity of the investigation?

I think it's important to remember the victim in this discussion. I am not the one that dragged the Kerchers into this, that would fall on the shoulders of Knox, Sollecito and Guede. All anyone here seems to want to discuss is that woman from Seattle that murdered Meredith Kercher, always treating the murderer as though she is the victim. The murderer is not the victim, she is the woman that was found guilty by a jury in a court of law and sentenced to 26 years in prison. Any attempt to even discuss a recent article published by the victim's father is met with resistance. Why is that?

At least they have it on video so everyone can come to their own conclusions unlike what ILE did

 

[Allusonz]

Don't speak for me.

I posted a link to Mr Kercher's article published on May 21, 2011. That happens to be current information related to this case. I'm shocked at how quickly everyone wants to sweep him, his article and the family under the carpet. Is it difficult to bash the case when we are reminded that the victim's family stands behind it? What exactly is the problem with discussing the victim, her family and this recent article?

Everyone on this thread has tried to be respectful to the Kercher's. What I don't condone is the way they are being used by individuals for their own purposes supposedly in memory of. I have stated before if you wish to have a site for something like that then do it as you would the Challenger astronauts

 

[Allusonz]

I thought it did. Here, it has been suggested that Knox and Sollecito have alibis. Mr Kercher suggests that they've changed their alibis 9 times between the two of them. That strikes me as different. Here, it is repeatedly argued that if DNA is collected 6 weeks after the murder, it must be contaminated. Mr Kercher states that DNA recovered 17 years after the fact has been proven valid.

That's quite a different take on the case than what we read here.

As you very well know John Kercher has been misinformed then if that is truly what he believes and this is nothing but spreading misinformation

 

[Allusonz]

The father of the victim, who probably knows more about this case than everyone, has said that between the two, they provided 9 alibis. Would you doubt the father of the victim? Would you suppose that he is making things up, or is it quite possible that he knows exactly whereof he speaks?

Apparently Mr Kercher is aware of cases where DNA was collected years after the fact and it was accepted as evidence.

Does any motive for murder make sense?

He does not know more about this case than anyone else. He obviously does not know of the contamination issues or seen the videos of them collecting them. If he has then he has chosen to disregard the forensic methods used and that is his choice but does not make him more informed.

 

[Allusonz]

I don't think that the handful of people that think the jury got it wrong has any bearing on the legal case ... at least I hope not.

The victim's family, on the other hand, had a legal representative in the courtroom during the trial. If anyone knows what happened during the trial, it would be the victim's family ... not some people in another country. On that basis, I would give the family's conclusions about the trial far more weight.

It is significantly more than a handful of which you are very well aware

 

[Allusonz]

We've already acknowledged Mr. Kercher's sentiments, and we empathize with him. Beyond that, adding his views to the debate over the validity of the evidence is unnecessary and irrelevant.

I've told you there are other problems with the DNA on the clasp. It also has the profiles of other unidentified people on it, we know it was moved from its original location, as well as being manhandled by multiple members of the forensic team on a (for some odd reason) live broadcast. And now it's been destroyed, preventing further testing. Several problems.

Otto, if you can cite a murder case that bares a similar motive to this one where the dynamic between the victim and accused are also similar, by all means show us. This has been attempted in the past and there have always been huge differences.

This is worth repeating

 

[Allusonz]

otto has been searching for an authority to "prove" the guilt of AK and RS in the absence of convincing forensic evidence.

He's been through Massei and Mignini and we've pointed out where they go wrong.

So now otto's moved on to Mr. Kercher.

Worth repeating as well

 

[Allusonz]

Thanks and they did decide to hear these jailhouse informants.

I appreciate you comming out of the woodwork to inform me.

Oh my, the ignore button is better than my straw wine hat, allusonz! :woohoo:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

I will still keep them handy for you

 

[Allusonz]

I will have to think about this.

I guess what srtikes me about this case is that we have a number of people discussing in this thread. I think everyone would say that their opinion is based on the facts of the case, correct? Yet there are two very different opinions that have formed.

So my question for everyone is:

What evidence, either brought into or removed from the case, would cause you to change your opinion as to whether RS and AK should be found guilty by the Italian courts? This is a different question from innocence/guilt.

For me, I believe that the prosecution did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Things that could convince me that the decision was sound would be new items that could be forensically linked to RS and AK and the murder scene.

1. The "Semen" stain: if it was tested and found to belong to RS, it would be pretty damning.

2. Meredith's keys and/or the murder weapon: If they were found with both Meredith's blood and DNA or firgerprints from RS or AK -- would be pretty convincing.

I should note that I am not impressed with the quality shown so far in the case, however. I would want more transpanency on the forensics.

Something that would give me pause? If ILE found the tape of AK's interrogation and it was shown to have happened the way LE described andnothing like what AK has said happened. The interrogation should not count as evidence against her, however, so it wouldn't change my mind on guilty/not guilty even though I might be less inclined to believe her innnocent.

Interesting

I would need to think on this as my faith in ILE has been destroyed.

I do know one thing that would of made me take note of guilt is if one of the 3 would of flipped on the other 2 early on. The fact that RG refused to testify was probably a turning point as well for me. The rest I will truly need to think about as I know forensically I would be skeptic of anything presented at this point in time

 

[otto]

You have tried to derail this thread by comparing AK from KH, CA, to thrill killers that you suggest we ourselves look up the case you are referring to by googling it. This continues to undermine your arguments

I have drawn a comparison between Amanda & Raffaele and other couples that met, became instantly intense and who committed murder. Other have as well. I do not see a close similarity between Knox and Anthony, although the points made by RR473 appear to be astute. I am of the opinion that Amanda & Raffaele, as a drugged (they admitted to this) couple, crossed some boundaries too quickly and crossed other boundaries they should have avoided.

I don't think that drawing comparisons to similar cases undermines an argument.

 

[otto]

The prosecution did not disclose all the information. That is illegal. The experts just received the raw data .fsa files and would hope that now the defense has them as well

Under disclosure, the prosecution released evidence to all parties - including Raffaele, Amanda, Patrick and Meredith's lawyers. Meredith's lawyer also attended the trial, so the information that was available to Mr Kercher exceeded what he was told by the prosecutor.

Given recent developments, it appears that proprietary files were initially withheld, but that they have been made available to the Rome experts. Now that all the files are available for examination by independent experts, will they confirm the original test results? If they are proprietary files, they will not be released to any of the lawyers.

In the Nature magazine that I've referenced a couple of times, it is noted that certain files are withheld for proprietary reasons in all labs - even in the US. Hendry (is he one of the neo-experts) might be the guy that suggested that no files in DNA testing are withheld for any reason. That simply isn't true.

I'll look for the link ... about proprietary files.

 

[otto]

Here it is ...

Or was Hendry the traffic accident expert who was also secretly an expert in determining how old Italian window glass was broken based on glass shards?

 

[otto]

You are very misinformed. The one that has changed his story numerous times is Mignini. It has gone from a satanic sex ritual to the latest being AK orchestrating the killing from another room. I think that is now number 6

Where are the pompoms and fireworks reserved for new posters? That seems so much friendlier.

 

[otto]

Everyone on this thread has tried to be respectful to the Kercher's. What I don't condone is the way they are being used by individuals for their own purposes supposedly in memory of. I have stated before if you wish to have a site for something like that then do it as you would the Challenger astronauts

How is citing a May 21, 2011 news article using the family for individual purposes?

I'm viewing this as an extremely desperate attempt to exclude all discussion about the victim and her family. Her father is her voice. He published an article last week. For me, it raises points that I had not previously considered, or been aware of. Why should his opinion not be discussed?

I find it interesting to consider the validity of DNA collection after 6 weeks in light of other cases where valid DNA was collected long after the murder.

In terms of alibis, I remember that Amanda and Raffaele gave different stories about how they got from the cottage to his apartment in the afternoon before the murder. I think Amanda included a walk along the movie theatre route - a much longer walk than claimed by Raffaele, who said they walked directly to his apartment. That might be included as 2 of the alibis. Two more would be dinner & a movie. How do we get to 9 alibis? Is the point about being in the square when Patrick called but claiming to be at Raffaele's at the time another 2 alibis? I guess we could add in Amanda's claim that she was in the cottage with her fingers in her ears. That makes 7. If we add Raffaele saying that Amanda may not have been at the apartment the entire night ... that makes 8 ... need one more.

 

[otto]

It is significantly more than a handful of which you are very well aware

I doubt it. In the big picture, it's not enough to fill the bowling alley at a Bowling for Amanda fundraiser. The media blitz at the universiy was a bomb, with more empty chairs than anything ... and guest speakers walking out before everyone had spoken. A couple of people have lost their jobs and reputations over this case (Bremner, Frank, that FBI guy that briefly taught in Virginia, ...) and a few others are looking for their recognition during retirement. In reality, Casey Anthony is the Queen of media these days ... people have moved on. Even on this board, there are only a handful of people.

If Knox and Sollecito are unsuccessful in this appeal, I think their fates are sealed - although I suspect they'll be released prior to their full 25 and 26 years simply because they're young and can be rehabilitated. The Supreme Court has already ruled that Rudy did not act alone, and no other suspects have emerged. I doubt the Supreme Court will decide next that Rudy acted alone.

 

[otto]

As you very well know John Kercher has been misinformed then if that is truly what he believes and this is nothing but spreading misinformation

Do you really think that the father of the victim has been misinformed, and we know better?
... keeping in mind that he's a freelance news reporter for a UK newspaper.