Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #14

[Nova]

Yes, I do have a basis for knowing that police are known to release information to the public in order to generate leads, even if the information is false.

The charge in the letter is that ILE released untrue info demonizing a suspect. You attempted to contend this was standard procedure in the U.S.

I have challenged that claim and you are apparently unable to support your original argument. Rephrasing it into a new argument does not support the challenged claim.

 

[SMK]

A couple from fading memory are:

She had no interpreterMaybe not soon enough?
She was interrogated all nightNever did get this straight, how long it was.
She wasn't recorded as a witnessYou mean the interrogation not being recorded? Mignini said it was audio taped, but wonder if it was.
Denied food, water and bathroomDoes he mean for some period of the time?

In any case, I just feel Obama and Clinton are aloof. Maybe I am judging too soon.

 

[Nova]

I suppose that makes him just like the Italian prosecutor ... someone that works in justice and who has some complaints against him ... and who is still working in the field of justice even after admitting judicial misconduct. I suppose the difference is that Mignini stopped doing whatever it was that got him into trouble, the Heavey doesn't seem to care enough about the law to stop doing whatever it was that got him into trouble. Or ... am I missing something? Could there be another reason why Heavey, the father of Amanda's classmate, is repeating the same legal violation?

It isn't "the same" legal violation.

Using official stationery for this purpose may be improper, but it's hardly the same degree of abuse of power of which Mignini was convicted. Nor does misuse of stationery reflect much on how the judge does his regular job in the same way that wiretapping, et al., do.

 

[dgfred]

The charge in the letter is that ILE released untrue info demonizing a suspect. You attempted to contend this was standard procedure in the U.S.

I have challenged that claim and you are apparently unable to support your original argument. Rephrasing it into a new argument does not support the challenged claim.

I challenge anything in the letter being of significance or value to AK/RS appeals.

 

[Nova]

Based on the quote below, I would assume that the contents of the washing machine were deemed relevant and were examined ... thus leading me to believe that Filomina's account of the warm washing machine was believed.

"Three samples were taken from two very wet lilac towels found by the Flying Squad [Squadra Mobile] of Perugia inside the washing machine, ..."

pg 192
http://www.westseattleherald.com/si...ttachments/MasseiReportEnglishTranslation.pdf

If you think it takes the same time for a washing machine to cool off as for a load of clothes to dry, then you don't do much laundry.

Your quote says samples were taken from wet laundry. How does that prove whether the machine was warm? How does that even prove that anything in the washing machine was related to the crime?

 

[dgfred]

Also for example.

ILE release a photo showing 'red/pink' all over the bathroom... media publishes as 'Bloody Crime Scene'. That is not ILE's fault.

ILE release info (which they didn't) of 'Foxy Knoxy' on her facebook... media and others run with it is sexual in nature. Not ILE's fault

ILE release that they have found receipts... media publishes receipts for bleach found. Not ILE's fault. Same with AK's shirt/jacket... maybe media asked if they had found it- they say no (at that time) then media reports it is not found.

 

[SMK]

Also for example.

ILE release a photo showing 'red/pink' all over the bathroom... media publishes as 'Bloody Crime Scene'. That is not ILE's fault.

ILE release info (which they didn't) of 'Foxy Knoxy' on her facebook... media and others run with it is sexual in nature. Not ILE's fault

ILE release that they have found receipts... media publishes receipts for bleach found. Not ILE's fault. Same with AK's shirt/jacket... maybe media asked if they had found it- they say no (at that time) then media reports it is not found.

Yes. The argument should be made that the media demonized her, and since Italian juries are not sequestered, this had a prejudicial and considerable effect on the judgement.

 

[dgfred]

If you think it takes the same time for a washing machine to cool off as for a load of clothes to dry, then you don't do much laundry.

Your quote says samples were taken from wet laundry. How does that prove whether the machine was warm? How does that even prove that anything in the washing machine was related to the crime?

Who claimed the washer/no dryer WAS related to the crime?

Would it not be suspicious (if you were a investigator) if you came to a bloody crime scene... blood in the bathroom, obvious clean up, clothes/etc in washer? Would you not at least look at the stuff in the washer?

 

[dgfred]

Yes. The argument should be made that the media demonized her, and since Italian juries are not sequestered, this had a prejudicial and considerable effect on the judgement.

IMO, and probably Italians too... the judges/jurors were perfectly able to do their job and only consider the evidence presented. I believe that is what they did. The media did it anyway... not ILE.

 

[SMK]

IMO, and probably Italians too... the judges/jurors were perfectly able to do their job and only consider the evidence presented. I believe that is what they did. The media did it anyway... not ILE.

Well, the sex-game theory which Mignini proposed was incendiary to the media to some extent, certainly.

 

[Nova]

Who claimed the washer/no dryer WAS related to the crime?

Would it not be suspicious (if you were a investigator) if you came to a bloody crime scene... blood in the bathroom, obvious clean up, clothes/etc in washer? Would you not at least look at the stuff in the washer?

Except there was no clean up, obvious or otherwise.

Of course, I expect ILE to look in the washing machine. Hell, that may be the only thing they did right.

But I know of no evidence they found there that relates to the murder, so I don't know why we are discussing it.

As for Filomena's recollection that the machine was "still warm" when she arrived at the cottage, obviously she is mistaken. (Not lying, just mistaken.)

 

[Nova]

In any case, I just feel Obama and Clinton are aloof. Maybe I am judging too soon.

I think modern, industrialized nations are too complicated for heads of state to get personally involved in trials of individuals--unless there is something so unusual about the case that it provokes truly national interest. That isn't true of Amanda Knox in the U.S.

 

[Nova]

Yes. The argument should be made that the media demonized her, and since Italian juries are not sequestered, this had a prejudicial and considerable effect on the judgement.

Certainly the media made plenty of mistakes in this case.

But when it comes to false info leaked by ILE, how can the media be blamed for that? They are supposed to report info they are given by the authorities.

 

[dgfred]

Well, the sex-game theory which Mignini proposed was incendiary to the media to some extent, certainly.

Another way to consider it is:

Sexual assault WAS involved

A 'prank' or 'game (translation error)' COULD have been involved.
Since we/he may never know the TRUE motive, he was 'proposing' a possibility.

The media IS responsible for accuracy of information given out, but 'incendiary' sells alot better.

These ILE 'leaks' as they are being called, would be censored wouldn't they?
Why are the 'anonymous sources' from the ILE that supposidly gave the pictures to the media not in any trouble or under question IF they gave out any false information at all.

Which examples of leaked supposidly false information do y'all think got her convicted of murder by a competant jury?

 

[dgfred]

Except there was no clean up, obvious or otherwise.

Of course, I expect ILE to look in the washing machine. Hell, that may be the only thing they did right.

But I know of no evidence they found there that relates to the murder, so I don't know why we are discussing it.

As for Filomena's recollection that the machine was "still warm" when she arrived at the cottage, obviously she is mistaken. (Not lying, just mistaken.)

*Where is the rest of the bathroom bare footprint attributed to RS?

*So there are blood drops of Meredith's in different parts of the house... but not from her body/doorway/door to the bathroom or Filomena's room and there was NO cleanup? I don't see it that way. Who left the bathroom print and how did it get there? Isn't washing off a form of clean-up?

In a way you are also claiming the luminol BARE footprints in the hallway are not accepted by the courts as AKs and RSs... which they were.

Also, if the washer was 'running' prior to everyone arriving (this time :innocent: ) couldn't it have been 'warm' still? Was her testimony that it was 'warm', or is this the English translation of what she was saying? Or she could have been mistaken as you say, I'm sure her adrenaline was up a bit already.

 

[otto]

I think maybe someone 'made' that stationary for him... not exactly court. So it would look official even tho it wasn't. 'From the Chambers' could possibly have several meanings. Obviously he doesn't know the case, is trying to influence the outcome, and doesn't REALLY know that he is actually hurting support by being one of the supporters.

He seems to echo the same thoughts that are posted by those that disagree with the verdict. How do you see those opinions as hurting Knox?

 

[otto]

Well, my own feeling is that the fates of Knox and Sollecito hang with the Perugia appeals court process. Obama, the State Department, Congress, would not be likely to be involved unless someone from the US who was monitoring the case truly felt her rights had been violated. I may be wrong; they may take an interest. Which points do you, or Otto, believe that Heavey is wrong about again?

All of them. I don't want to get into yet another debate about whether Knox had an interpreter (or any of the other points for that matter), but Heavey should know that the interpreter testified in court and that Knox stated in court that she had an interpreter before he claims that Knox didn't have one. Everything he writes can be easily refuted.

 

[otto]

To my knowledge, nobody here has ever accused Filomena of lying.

What some of us have said is that her recollections shouldn't have been substituted for proper forensic processing of a crime scene. I believe we would say the same of any eyewitness.

Some items from the washing machine were tested for evidence, so I think we can conclude that Filomina's statement about the washing machine being warm were taken very seriuosly.

 

[dgfred]

He seems to echo the same thoughts that are posted by those that disagree with the verdict. How do you see those opinions as hurting Knox?

Same 'thoughts' but he put it on paper. Most supporters don't believe the things he is saying in the letter... I imagine they are embarrassed a bit. He doesn't know the evidence, in fact he is making false statements for the most part.
It is highly insulting IMO to the Italian Judicial System/Law Enforcement/The people/etc to think that they could not be competant regarding a crime committed in their country. Especially coming from a country that has just as bad/good systems and people. The whole letter is pure publicity... and bad publicity at that.

IMO SMK sees it as I thought it would be 'seen'.

 

[SMK]

Same 'thoughts' but he put it on paper. Most supporters don't believe the things he is saying in the letter... I imagine they are embarrassed a bit. He doesn't know the evidence, in fact he is making false statements for the most part.
It is highly insulting IMO to the Italian Judicial System/Law Enforcement/The people/etc to think that they could not be competant regarding a crime committed in their country. Especially coming from a country that has just as bad/good systems and people. The whole letter is pure publicity... and bad publicity at that.

IMO SMK sees it as I thought it would be 'seen'.

Thanks for giving me credit on that score.