Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #14

[Allusonz]

Knox was at the cottage at some time through the night and between roughly 10:30 - 11:30 AM. Filomina arrived sometime around 1 PM. Filomina said that the washing machine was warm, and police found very wet lilac towels in the washing machine - they were examined for evidence.

I'm not seeing a problem ... but I am wondering why there is such an effort to discredit Filomina.

By your own admission here at least an hour and a half had passed prior to FR's arrival probably longer. There is no way that washing machine would of still been warm

 

[SMK]

By your own admission here at least an hour and a half had passed prior to FR's arrival probably longer. There is no way that washing machine would of still been warm

Right, it made me wonder why she said that, and why she was so quick to turn on Amanda. I have nothing against her, she just seemed very flighty in all her assertions, about the shutters, the room, Knox, all....

 

[dgfred]

But Mignini and his controversies aside, aren't you bothered by the fact that there is dried semen on MK's pillow that has never been DNA tested?

For all we know, there is an unindicted co-conspirator wandering free!

(Don't misunderstand me: I think the semen probably belongs to RG. But that's hardly something we should leave to assumptions!)

I don't believe (correct if wrong) that there is any testimony that it WAS semen. IIRC they decided to test the stain/print around it/near for something and couldn't 'test' both.

I think the right people are right where they belong.

 

[dgfred]

Then they should be easy for you to find and show as others have done when proving a point.

Y'all read there frequently... look for yourself as others have done when curious or doubting information. The mop/bucket is there, so you were wrong.

 

[dgfred]

Look at the date Fred and read the article. This was the first time he sent letters. We are now in 2011 not 2009 which was 2 years ago

This is his second 'infraction' doing the same thing. Thanks for letting me know the year.

 

[dgfred]

Yes I find it amazing that a nickname given to her at IIRC 8 years old takes on such ominous connotations to some

But, she 'chose' to keep that nickname on her facebook/myspace? and stuff.

Do you think it STILL held the same conotation to her or anyone visiting her page for the first time? Probably she 'liked' the unintended conotation IMO.
It is not the fault/problem for ILE that the MEDIA pounced on this nickname after she is accused of being involved in a murder. It is only natural IMO.

 

[dgfred]

I take your bow, but I decline to engage with the contentions around it because we already had a meaningful conversation about it, but contenders act as if it never happened. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. It's very tiresome to repeat valid arguments in a room of deaf ears.

Try a valid argument and we can see. So basically at this moment we have a 'double-evasion' situation regarding the bare footprints.

*It's not blood.
*They are anybodys but AK or RS.
*It might be AKs and RSs but it was in fruit juice or something.
*RG floated to the bathroom to take his shoe(s) off to wash off (but still this isn't clean-up), left nothing on the way there or back, left a BARE footprint, then put his shoes back on, re-tracked in the blood, and went straight out the front door.
*Oh, and dripped some blood dead smack on AK's dna in the bathroom and Filomena's room... the tricky rascal.

Does that about cover the 'meaningful conversation' from the innocent side?

 

[Nova]

Knox was at the cottage at some time through the night and between roughly 10:30 - 11:30 AM. Filomina arrived sometime around 1 PM. Filomina said that the washing machine was warm, and police found very wet lilac towels in the washing machine - they were examined for evidence.

I'm not seeing a problem ... but I am wondering why there is such an effort to discredit Filomina.

It's not so much a matter of discrediting Filomina as recognizing the limits of eyewitness testimony. Allusonz has already pointed out Filomina's various recollections of how she left her shutters: perfectly normal, by the by, since she had no reason to memorize shutter positions at the time she left.

But her other statements are offered here as if they are true to a degree of scientific certainty.

Given that the suspicion of AK and RS was predicated largely on the assumption that the break-in was staged, there's no excuse for not processing that room thoroughly and by trained experts.

And while I'm not calling Filomena a liar, it is interesting that she pops up whenever ILE needs her to fill a hole in its case. Some people have a natural tendency to trust and help ILE, as we can see from posters in this thread.

 

[Nova]

We haven't heard about Knox having habitual nose bleeds, so perhaps her blood got onto the sink because she was bopped in the nose? Was she bopped in the nose? Is there any reason why she would have a bleeding nose? Any thoughts on what Knox's blood was doing on the sink when it wasn't there the day before?

That would be a question to ask ILE. They had AK at the station everyday beginning with the discovery of MK's body; they had ample opportunity to observe whether AK had any suspicious cuts.

That they--once again--failed to do their jobs adequately does not magically become evidence of AK's culpability.

AK bled a little in her own house. I dare say we are all guilty of that.

 

[Nova]

Remind me again why police should have been taking the temperature of the washing machine upon arriving at the cottage ... rather than attending to the victim and removing the crowd from the crime scene?

And why again is it so strange that Filomina noticed that the washing machine was warm given it's proximity to the toilet that Rudy used ... and Amanda's toilet/poop fear/concern. Didn't Amanda lead police and Filomina through the house talking about the poop that alarmed her and that there was a bunch of blood in the bathroom where she just showered - but didn't notice until afterward? And what about that locked door ... of course everyone was near the washer before Meredith was discovered. For some reason, police and forensic analysts didn't question the fact that the washer was warm - and they tested the contents for evidence.

It's interesting to think about what route Amanda took when she first introduced Filomina and police to whatever concerns she had about in the cottage. Did she point out the poop first, the blood, or the locked bedroom?

Yet another reason to believe AK is innocent: she didn't flush the toilet and eliminate that evidence of RG's presence in the cottage. Before we decide she left it there intentionally to implicate RG, let's remember she had ample opportunity to implicate RG in her statements and yet never did so.

It does not appear she even knew RG was involved until the forensic results returned.

 

[Nova]

Right, it made me wonder why she said that, and why she was so quick to turn on Amanda. I have nothing against her, she just seemed very flighty in all her assertions, about the shutters, the room, Knox, all....

I appreciate Allusonz' distinction: I am not trying to "discredit" Filomina in the sense of saying she is a bad person or a conscious liar.

But when one considers all the "help" she provided ILE, one may well suspect that Filomina had an inclination to be helpful to the authorities that colored her recollection of things like the temperature of the washing machine.

I know some here have even suspected Filomina of complicity in the crime because she seems to be so key in providing evidence against AK. I don't go that far, but I think ILE may have convinced Filomina of AK's guilt early on and that belief greatly "aided" Filomina's memory.

ETA: but even if Filomina were the most neutral and objective witness of all time, the tossed bedroom should have been processed properly.

 

[Nova]

This makes the likelyhood of anyone checking the washing machine temperature even more unlikely unless that was more important than the break in, checking to see what was missing in which supposedly much of FR's time was spent in her room as per her own testimony, and then having her BF break down the door, deal with ILE, and a dead body

I think it's far more likely that ILE thought to ask about the washing machine sometime later and Filomina is one of those people who "aims to please" authority figures. So all of a sudden she genuinely believes she remembers touching the washing machine and finding it warm.

 

[Nova]

I don't believe (correct if wrong) that there is any testimony that it WAS semen. IIRC they decided to test the stain/print around it/near for something and couldn't 'test' both.

I think the right people are right where they belong.

Even if you think the end is correct, don't you want the means of proof to be accurate?

We've both seen the stain and we know perfectly well there was plenty of material to test. In fact, IIRC, the Court ruled that testing was unnecessary (because MK was sexually active with her boyfriend), not that testing was impossible.

 

[Nova]

But, she 'chose' to keep that nickname on her facebook/myspace? and stuff.

Do you think it STILL held the same conotation to her or anyone visiting her page for the first time? Probably she 'liked' the unintended conotation IMO.
It is not the fault/problem for ILE that the MEDIA pounced on this nickname after she is accused of being involved in a murder. It is only natural IMO.

Nobody ever blamed ILE for the "Foxy Knoxy" business. Please let that straw man die.

"Foxy" means clever as well as sexy. What if AK did enjoy the double entendre? There's no evidence she was overly promiscuous, so how is this relevant to anything?

 

[SMK]

Nobody ever blamed ILE for the "Foxy Knoxy" business. Please let that straw man die.

"Foxy" means clever as well as sexy. What if AK did enjoy the double entendre? There's no evidence she was overly promiscuous, so how is this relevant to anything?

I agree, i think most young girls would enjoy being known as "Foxy", and Knox never knew it would be applied to her as a sex killer.

 

[dgfred]

That would be a question to ask ILE. They had AK at the station everyday beginning with the discovery of MK's body; they had ample opportunity to observe whether AK had any suspicious cuts.

That they--once again--failed to do their jobs adequately does not magically become evidence of AK's culpability.

AK bled a little in her own house. I dare say we are all guilty of that.

My, you sure seem a tad cranky in your post lately.

Nobody said cuts. AK testified the blood was not there the DAY before. She also 'wondered' about her own ears and possibly Meredith's 'period'. Which part did ILE fail to do their jobs adequately regarding the blood in the bathroom 'once again'?

I hope you are not guilty of bleeding in your own house, the night of a murder of your flatmate, but having NO IDEA where the blood came from when asked... even tho you claim to have not been present in the flat that very night in between there being NO BLOOD OF YOURS there-then suddenly there is! Add in not knowing what you were doing or where you were that night propably wouldn't help either. Additionally, Don't accuse an innocent man of the murder and don't claim you were 'there'. Conspiracy??? Evil prosecutor??? Maybe not.

 

[dgfred]

Nobody ever blamed ILE for the "Foxy Knoxy" business. Please let that straw man die.

"Foxy" means clever as well as sexy. What if AK did enjoy the double entendre? There's no evidence she was overly promiscuous, so how is this relevant to anything?

What straw man??? My post was in reply to the post regarding anyone that took it in the wrong context was 'gross'. It was the context the media chose, and anyone looking at the web site might see a 20 yr old girl calling herself 'foxy'. That was it.

Thanks to you and Al I can know read and know that 2009 is 2 years ago and foxy might mean clever as well as sexy. :truce:

 

[dgfred]

Yet another reason to believe AK is innocent: she didn't flush the toilet and eliminate that evidence of RG's presence in the cottage. Before we decide she left it there intentionally to implicate RG, let's remember she had ample opportunity to implicate RG in her statements and yet never did so.

It does not appear she even knew RG was involved until the forensic results returned.

Hmmmmm :waitasec: , wonder if she WAS involved, she would want them to find RG on their own... because wouldn't he immediately implicate her anyway if she 'told' on him? Since the Supreme Court ruled he was co-responsible AND the defense is now having inmates to testify that other were also there... that seems to indicate there were others there, but zero evidence of them and some of both AK and RS. Why would RS be worried about 'strange things' the recently arrested RG would claim about him?

***Her blood indicates that she was there the night of the murder, not just her own words. If her blood is not there the afternoon before the murder, but is there the morning after the murder- it is unexplainable and all attempts to do so are very weak IMO.

 

[SkewedView]

Why was Amanda bleeding again, and didn't she testify that her blood was not there when she was there the day before?

"In the small bathroom, three traces of the victim's blood were found on the bathmat; on the light switch plate with two switches there were traces "of diluted blood, blood presumably mixed with water, as it was pale pink in colour" (page 76) which also came from the victim; a sample was taken from the front part of the faucet of the sink, which yielded the genetic profile of Amanda Knox; another sample taken from a specimen visible to the naked eye on the edge of the drain of the bidet yielded the genetic profiles of the victim and of Knox, a genetic mixture also found on the box of cotton buds near the sink.

More specifically:

The drippings found inside the sink appeared to be diluted blood, pink in colour, proven by testing to be human blood and yielding the genetic mixture of the victim and Knox."

pg 192
http://www.westseattleherald.com/si...ttachments/MasseiReportEnglishTranslation.pdf

Sigh...I hate that people misinterpret this so badly...

Let me put this in layman's terms.

I go to your bathroom sink and take a swipe. Said swipe will have your genetic profile on it if you used it to wash your hands, gargle, brushed your teeth etc.

Next, I cut myself and wash the blood off in the sink, then take a swipe. The swipe will show a mix of our genetic profiles and the presence of blood. It will not tell us which genetic profile came from blood and which didn't.

Thus, your quote proves nothing other than that somebody washed MK's blood off in a sink that AK regularly uses, and their genetic material became mixed. This is why forensic techs absolutely hate it when a suspect lives at the scene of the crime - otherwise telling dna & print evidence often becomes useless, unless you wish to insinuate that it means more than it really does to a non-scientifically educated jury (as often happens, much to the dismay of the various forensic certification boards).

Just because Mignini thinks that 'interpretation is more important than details' (don't get me started on how much this attitude disgusts me), doesn't make it right that it has been presented by him and then by Massai as a scientifically proven fact when it is in fact pure speculation. I swear, the hoodwinks pulled by the prosecution's expert witnesses in this case would get most scientists in less forgiving fields (pretty much any that don't involve putting people in prison, ironically enough) a nice black listing from all reputable publications and studies (not that it's anything unusual nowadays, this has become a plague that has only one solution - automatic allowance of independent expert review of all forensics in cases with long sentences).

 

[dgfred]

I agree, i think most young girls would enjoy being known as "Foxy", and Knox never knew it would be applied to her as a sex killer.

That's exactly what I was saying. So looking at that (for the first time)and 'thinking' it would be the 'sexy' conotation... how would it be 'gross'? That was why I mentioned she was the one that left it like that, and might not mind the 'sexy' meaning taken by some before being accused of the murder.