Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #14

[dgfred]

Sigh...I hate that people misintrepet this so badly...

Let me put this in layman's terms.

I go to your bathroom sink and take a swipe. Said swipe will have your genetic profile on it if you used it to wash your hands, gargle, brushed your teeth etc.

Next, I cut myself and wash the blood off in the sink, then take a swipe. The swipe will show a mix of our genetic profiles and the presence of blood. It will not tell us which genetic profile came from blood and which didn't.

Thus, your quote proves nothing other than that somebody washed MK's blood off in a sink that AK regularly uses, and their genetic material became mixed. This is why forensic techs absolutely hate it when a suspect lives at the scene of the crime - otherwise telling dna & print evidence often becomes useless unless you wish to insinuate that it means more than it really does to a non-scientifically educated jury (as often happens, much to the dismay of the various forensic certification boards).

In layman's terms, her blood was there... not just her dna. Therefore, when there is no blood of hers there the day of the murder but there is the morning after the murder... she is left in a bad way.

 

[SkewedView]

In layman's terms, her blood was there... not just her dna. Therefore, when there is no blood of hers there the day of the murder but there is the morning after the murder... she is left in a bad way.

Um, no. Blood was there. There is no way of telling whose profile (MK, AK or both) came from blood, or from other genetic material, which an uncleaned sink is teaming with. Stating pure speculation as fact does not make it true.

 

[dgfred]

Even if you think the end is correct, don't you want the means of proof to be accurate?

We've both seen the stain and we know perfectly well there was plenty of material to test. In fact, IIRC, the Court ruled that testing was unnecessary (because MK was sexually active with her boyfriend), not that testing was impossible.

I didn't know that at all, and I don't remember any ruling by the Court of it not being necessary. Where can I see that 'ruling'?

I recall a print/other stain of some kind being around or over the stain, and the other print/stain was chosen as more relevant. But if there is plenty of material to test... I'm all for it.

Interesting you want accuracy but the first claim made would be contamination, planting, conspiracy, or incompetant gathering/testing/reading results if whatever the stain was turned out to be RS's... or goodness gracious even AK's :innocent: .

 

[dgfred]

Um, no. Blood was there. There is no way of telling whose profile (MK, AK or both) came from blood, or from other genetic material, which an uncleaned sink is teaming with. Stating pure speculation as fact does not make it true.

Blood was there... hers. IIRC there was no doubt by the courts that it was AK's blood in the sink. If you would show me otherwise I would be glad to admit I am wrong.

 

[dgfred]

Hey Skewed,
Got time for your 'play by play' tonight?

 

[dgfred]

Um, no. Blood was there. There is no way of telling whose profile (MK, AK or both) came from blood, or from other genetic material, which an uncleaned sink is teaming with. Stating pure speculation as fact does not make it true.

In fact I'm not positive but I think that at least one in the sink and maybe the cotton swab box too were said to be AK's blood. Can't remember if was both, or which one only tho.

 

[SMK]

That's exactly what I was saying. So looking at that (for the first time)and 'thinking' it would be the 'sexy' conotation... how would it be 'gross'? That was why I mentioned she was the one that left it like that, and might not mind the 'sexy' meaning taken by some before being accused of the murder.

Yes, to be known as "Foxy Knoxy" as in "Sexy Knoxy" is fine until a 3 on 1 murder theory is set forth by a Prosecutor , and then the headlines blare things like "Foxy Knoxy had Sex on the Brain Constantly". That is the bad part. Like, you might want to be called "Stud Fred": UNTIL you have been falsely accused of rape....

 

[SkewedView]

Blood was there... hers. IIRC there was no doubt by the courts that it was AK's blood in the sink. If you would show me otherwise I would be glad to admit I am wrong.

Court, not courts - the appeals court has not ruled one way or another on anything. Massai made that ruling out of either wishful thinking or a complete misunderstanding of what these tests can and can't determine. Science and technology are not magical. Any given test has limits on what it can do. The very passage that was originally quoted makes it quite clear that there was blood, and there was a mixed profile associated with the sample that included said blood and any other genetic material that it may have come in contact with. It is extremely likely that diluted blood in a sink that is regularly used will pick up other genetic material. The tests for the presence of blood and those that show the genetic profiles associated with a sample are separate and distinct. There is simply no way of ethically concluding whether AK's profile was associated with her own blood in this instance.

Now, had there been a sample that had blood, and the only profile was AK's, that would be a different story. But that is simply not the case. Indeed, every single sample that had only one profile and was associated with blood was MK's.

 

[dgfred]

Yes, to be known as "Foxy Knoxy" as in "Sexy Knoxy" is fine until a 3 on 1 murder theory is set forth by a Prosecutor , and then the headlines blare things like "Foxy Knoxy had Sex on the Brain Constantly". That is the bad part. Like, you might want to be called "Stud Fred": UNTIL you have been falsely accused of rape....

Exactly. So really nobody's fault.

Hey... how did you know my nickname :great: . Not really :crazy: .

 

[SkewedView]

Hey Skewed,
Got time for your 'play by play' tonight?

If I didn't have to get up in six hours to go to work, I would. I am working on it in Word as I get the chance, and will post it when I have finished and found all of the links for it.

 

[dgfred]

Sorry Skewed,
That's how the jurors saw it... as AK's blood, and Massei judged/ruled it was too. Don't even think this is an issue at all at appeal, right?

 

[dgfred]

If I didn't have to get up in six hours to go to work, I would. I am working on it in Word as I get the chance, and will post it when I have finished and found all of the links for it.

No problem, take your time. Don't worry about the links anyway, if they are the Hendry/Dr H/BF kind of links. I'd rather see your views anyway instead of another's opinions.

What kind of work you do if you don't mind telling? I'm in insurance, independent agency.

 

[SkewedView]

Sorry Skewed,
That's how the jurors saw it... as AK's blood, and Massei judged/ruled it was too. Don't even think this is an issue at all at appeal, right?

Yes, and Juries are made up of genius gods that have the experience with forensics to know whether or not an expert witness is presenting conclusions that have no basis in proper scientific methods and ethics. That must be why Massai time and again eliminated the defense's expert witnesses and denied motions for independent reviews. Yep, that's the ticket.

Sorry, gettin snarky here, think I need to get some sleep.

Regarding whether it was in the appeals, I couldn't say at the moment, there are a god-awful number of items listed (any of which can still be the subjects of rulings before the end of the appeal trial).

 

[wasnt_me]

How about here. This is Dr. Greg Hampikian talking about both the knife and bra clasp showing what they recorded specific to the bra clasp not including how they improperly took samples from other areas (which we now know was LCN DNA on the bra clasp)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vEFPZgW9HA

BTW, even my 13-year-old niece figured this case out relatively quickly when I challenged her to take a look at it and tell me what she thought.

 

[wasnt_me]

True!!! As well they never had any experts testify otherwise. Of course anything they would try to do forensically would be questioned as she had been allowed to enter her room. As I believe Malkmus and Nova have pointed out the glass spray cannot be explained as staged

There are so many ways to explain why that glass landed like it did and DID NOT land as it didn't to prove the break-in was real, even with the allegedly undisturbed by FR. but we can't know ever to what degree she disturbed it.

For example, there is glass clear across the room on the blue rug, which if you broke it from the inside, glass would NOT fly backward clear across the room. It supports the real break-in, but we don't know if FR shook glass off the laptop and it landed on that blue rug.

On the same token, we don't know if she shook glass out of stuff, causing it to land ON the clothes.

We just can't know.

If it can be isolated what she exactly disturbed and took from the room before the photos were taken, then we can know with more certainty what glass originally landed where. That's why that break-in shouldn't even be admissable.

 

[wasnt_me]

Another thing to note as well is that he admitted to being at the police station during the CNN interview and was NOT "called in"

Oh yeah, he was there, and I'd like to know if he made a habit of snoozing at the police station? If it was his regular pattern to be there most nights at that hour, then let him go. But if he didn't normally hang out around there at the time of night, then he did it on purpose, because he was there to question AK and RS or at least orchestrate the pressure placed upon them to get some kind of something out of them before AK's mom got to Italy and talked AK into going home.

That's a huge piece of circumstantial evidence to me: the fact that AK did NOT want to leave the country after this murder. The real murderer left, but AK did not. I don't know if RS would have anywhere to go internationally, but AK sure did but chose not to.

If anyone says it's because she thought she could outfox the police, well, that's not logical because the best way to outfox them is to hide behind the american flag for one (I don't our ex. policy, though). but also, AK's defense shows very well that she's clever or cunning and apparently had no master plan. I mean, they even claim that the knife-totting AK hadn't even planned the murder, so I doubt she had some masterplan to get away with it. I don't even know when she would have developed a masterplan when she spent 50 some odd hours being questioned. So she stayed, not be outwit, out last, and outplay. She stayed because she really thought she could help the police catch the murderer, bc she cared about MK.

 

[wasnt_me]

Well, MK and F also knew the boys downstairs, and had likely met Rudy, it is not a stretch to assume they had done so. Kercher's boyfriend knew Rudy, and the pot plants might have been a further connection. All of them had smoked together. It is not exactly a case where Rudy was a total stranger and only Knox had hooked up with him.:razz:

Rudy said he met MK downstairs, smoking weed with the boys and AK. I believe AK corroberated this. One of the boys downstairs was MK's boyfriend. Not a stretch at all that she met RG. As far as letting him proposition her and making a date with him....That's an entirely different and dubious matter.

As far as the investigators believing FR, therefore, opening the washer, well, they took pictures of the inside of the fridge, and they also gift-wrapped a mop. Even if FR hadn't opened their mouth, they would have looked into the washer. To correlate these actions to FR's statement is illogical.

It's just as illogical as the debate FR and AK supposedly had about whether MK locked her door. FR said MK NEVER locked her door. AK said "Never" wasn't true. To make this seem like an effot on AK's part to keep ILE from breaking down the door is absurd, because

1, why did RS and AK attempt to break it down, if they didn't want it broken down?

2, why call the police if they didn't want it broken down? and please let's not get into the sophmoric discussion about them calling the police after the police arrived, because we all know that isn't true by the delayed video stamp and AK's phone record of the police calling her.

 

[wasnt_me]

I understand ... the police were incompetent because they didn't take the temperature of the washing machine while there was a dead girl in the room down the hall. Of course ... if only they had their priorities in order ... we wouldn't have to find other ways to discredit the innocent roommates of the dead girl. Have we been able to dig up any dirt on Laura yet?

Uhm, sorry had to come out of ignore mode for this one.

Yeah, they didn't take the temperature of the dead girl, either, so I'd say their priorities were NOT straight.

back to ignore....

 

[wasnt_me]

She is simply not a reliable witness. If one has to give 3 different versions of the state of which one closed the shutters. That is not trying to discredit her as a person simply I have serious doubts as to how much weight can be attributed to her memory

I do give it more weight than the herion addict and the olive thrower, the shop owner, the half deaf lady, too. Heck, she might even be more credible than the hack DNA tester, but I don't hold someone's life and freedom in the balance of what she says. And I'd demand investigation of all she claimed one way or another. The way the mot report says why it believes people is just a crock.

 

[wasnt_me]

Right, it made me wonder why she said that, and why she was so quick to turn on Amanda. I have nothing against her, she just seemed very flighty in all her assertions, about the shutters, the room, Knox, all....

Nothing wrong with being flightly, but there is something wrong with stating things you didn't witness or things you aren't sure about.

AK and RS have already been burned at the stake for doing this, so any other witness in the case can share the same spotlight as far as I'm concerned.