Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #14

[dgfred]

It seems you have forgotten that during his skype call that he stated the times of 9:00, 9:20, and 9:30. We know that AK and RS were at the computer as per the Motivational Report till 9:10 and that the cartoon was opened at 9:26 as per RS appeal

What does that have to do with him standing up and accusing AK of being the cause of it ALL? He could do that or even stand up and say they both had nothing to do with it... right?

His self-serving statements are not what I am asking about.

 

[dgfred]

We also know from the video taken of the collection of the mop that it had a very long handle as can be seen when they were looking for the wrapping paper used from the cottage.

The picture of the bucket and what is said to be a mop is not the mop they took into evidence as it is very small thus I am more inclined to believe that the ones in the picture which appears to be an industrial one is probably something that is from the forensics team. Whatever is in that bucket is not the mop that we have all seen in the video being wrapped as evidence

No, there was a mop in the closet and this mop and bucket outside.

 

[dgfred]

They don't have to. It falls apart on it's own.

As for stating that we are being snarky, touchy etc, this seems to have become a standard reply of late and maybe I am missing it as I am simply not seeing this

Yep, must have missed it. It is a standard reply to a standard attitude it seems. Nova admitted in a way that it was due to frustration.

 

[dgfred]

They don't have to. It falls apart on it's own.

For example?

So you are suggesting the prosecution go look for the 'imaginary' evidence that totally exonerates AK and RS, but not the defense :waitasec: ???
Interesting view if it is :innocent: .

 

[wasnt_me]

A big part of the case for me hinges on whether or not the burglary was staged. That being said, there still could be a case for the defense in that Meredith's scream caused Rudy to flee so he wouldn't get caught. He then, in a panic, and bloody, waited outside to see if he was in so much trouble he would have to leave the country immediately (having left his backpack inside). Realzing no one was coming, he returned and decided (this being his first murder) to figure out how to not go to jail. So he quickly showered (Is there ZERO dna of Rudy in the bathroom? If there is zero in there that is very damaging. Because someone who committed the murder went in there to clean up. Where is this person's DNA? ) That is unless, the murder started in the bathroom and went into the bedroom. And it was cleaned up afterwards? But that would have been revealed by luminol. Right? So the murder started and ended in the bedroom (correct? proven beyond any doubt at all right?)

Sorry I'm all over the place.

There is question about why the downstairs apartment, which MK had keys to, had wet flipflops in it when everyone who lived there was out of town. Additionally, some other things were amiss. I forgot what else, though. This is why they keep asking AK where those keys are in the trial. They should ask RS where those keys are. How would he know those were the downstairs keys?

I don't know. maybe MK's boyfriend mentioned she'd be caring for his cat when he went away for the holiday. Maybe Mk came in, grabbed those keys to go see about the cat, RG startled her, and she told him to leave because she had to go see about the cat. That theory only works if his accomplice already went in through the window, and was hiding in the house, and RG decided to ring the doorbell.

You ask where RG's DNA is in the bathroom. I'd like to know where AK's DNA is in the murder room, and how only a half profile of RS's dna is on a bra clasp hook only. There is allegedly 19 unknown DNA samples involved in the case.

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes he does state they brought it back and IIRC stated that it was placed in the hallway, I simply forget where I found that. I know I found the cite now just to find it again rofl

I don't even remember, either at this point, but I know I read it.

 

[dgfred]

Filomena testified to the state of the shutters in 3 different positions. I don't seriously believe she knows what state those shutters were in. As well since we know they could not be closed properly and this had been told to the person owning the cottage, the fact that it was very windy the night of Nov 1st I could easily see how the shutters could blow open further

According to the ballistics expert the pattern was consistent with a rock being thrown from the outside. His testimony was not considered as he was not a rock throwing expert

Here is a link to the CCTV I believe it is of the night of the murder in which testimony confirmed it to be MK and RG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgeJeYoNadA

Of course you don't believe Filomena's testimony, but the important thing is the judges and jurors did. I've thrown alot of rocks in my day, could I have been the defense expert?

Could you possibly post the testimony that 'CONFIRMED' it was MK and RG and who made such confirmation? :waitasec:

 

[dgfred]

It's a picture of the "blonde hair" collected from Meredith's body. Massei explains this in his report:

And it wasn't wool or fibers found 'on' her body, this was a hair found 'in' her hand.

 

[dgfred]

Yes he does state they brought it back and IIRC stated that it was placed in the hallway, I simply forget where I found that. I know I found the cite now just to find it again rofl

Yes, the one in the hall.
Does anyone think it at all strange how many times each accused mentioned the mop and the water spill that waited until the next day to be cleaned up? :waitasec:

 

[dgfred]

Where did y'all go? :seeya:

 

[wasnt_me]

an opinion piece from the groundreport.

http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Amanda-Knox-everybody-knows-the-deal-is-rotten-Ill/2939714


It is my educated opinion that Rudy Guede alone murdered Meredith Kercher then molested her body at about 9 pm, Nov 1, 2007. Amanda Knox and her boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito had nothing to do with... this crime....


Rudy Guede told the police investigators that he was at Meredith's apartment waiting for her to come home. He was captured on CCTV cam arriving at her apartment two times shortly before Meredith’s image was captured on CCTV cam arriving at her driveway at 8:51 pm (corrected time). At 8:56 pm Meredith placed a call to her mom that was interrupted before her mom could answer. Her time of death depends on how long Guede let her live after that....


cant remember if this one was posted also.

http://www.groundreport.com/Business/The-Amanda-Knox-Appeal-Trial-Five-Witnesses-Declar_2/2939709

 

[dgfred]

It's a picture of the "blonde hair" collected from Meredith's body. Massei explains this in his report:

Warning: the victim's hand/fingers are shown.


http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=3316

Here it is. Doesn't look like what (wool/fiber) Massei was explaining to me but hard to tell for sure.

 

[Malkmus]

Warning: the victim's hand/fingers are shown.


http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=3316

Here it is. Doesn't look like what (wool/fiber) Massei was explaining to me but hard to tell for sure.

The complete references to the "hair" in the Massei report.

her hands were bloodstained and were protected with plastic bags in order to allow sample collection, as some hairlike fibres could be seen.

In listing the objects found in the victim's room, she mentioned a glass, a bra, a green towel, a light-coloured towel, a beige towel, a white sheet, three pieces of toilet paper, a ball of cotton wool, and a hairlike filament.

As for what appeared to be hairlike filaments found on the victim's body, when examined under a microscope they appeared to be strands of wool and gave no results.

The idea that Massei would neglect to mention an actual human hair found in Meredith's hand is not credible, IMO. I know that Barbie Nadeau has supposedly claimed the hair in question was lost before reaching the lab for testing but this is in conflict with reports from the police on November 14th that the hair was in the process of being tested. That there were no follow-ups reports in the press regarding the results of the testing indicate it was nothing, as Massei writes.

 

[emyr]

Ok, I didn't realize you could pull yourself up to your armpits there. That makes sense. I don't think that window was the best route to break in, but I also think it's very stupid to leave a turd at the murder scene. So I'm not going to second-guess exactly how stupid (and not rational) RG's decision making can be.

Was there a working telephone at the flat?

There were wet flip flops downstairs?

I read that MK was watering her boyfriends pot plants (not feeding his cat). I kind of wonder if she went down there to water the plants that night. (The Massai reports states that she was watering pot plants).

When did RS's dad state that his son said there was a broken pipe at his flat? I do find that story very strange. Why not use towels?

However, if you used a mop to clean up evidence at the cottage, why would only Rudys prints show up in the hallway? If I remember (from watching TV) the only way to hide blood evidence is to bleach it. But then the bleach shows up under luminol, letting them know that you did a cover up.) And there was no evidence of a cleaning cover up.

So, with lone wolf scenario....
Rudy has to break into the flat before Meredith arrives, because he has to go to the bathroom before he has blood evidence on him. So he breaks in prior to 9pm. He is surprised by Meredith. He either plays it off that he is supposed to be there (to see Amanda, or to buy drugs from the guys downstairs), or he hides. Because when Meredith gets home she starts the laundry, right? Meaning she is not attacked immediately. (maybe Rudy didn't flush the toilet b/c then she would know he is there). She goes to her bedroom, begins to call her mother, and the call is cancelled (she hears something? The attack begins?) Her scream causes Rudy to flee in a panic. Leaving blood stained prints through the door. BUt he's left all of his belongings and he has no money. He waits for a while, then when he realizes the calvary isn't coming, he returns for his stuff. He goes into the room and gets his bag and grabs her cell phones intending to use them himself (b/c he no longer has a cell phone of his own). He then realizes how bloody his shoes are getting and takes them off? Goes to the bathroom to wash up, and exits. It occurs to him that taking Meredith's cell phones was a bad idea b/c he can be tracked with them, so he throws them away.

Does that fit all the evidence? In this scenario I find the bathroom scene the least plausible b/c I think there should be some DNA evidence putting him in there (and there is none correct?). Unless the forensics show that the attack could have started in the bathroom, and that's why there was blood evidence in there.

 

[SMK]

Warning: the victim's hand/fingers are shown.


http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=3316

Here it is. Doesn't look like what (wool/fiber) Massei was explaining to me but hard to tell for sure.

I agree, it does not look like a fiber, but a hair. And yet as Malkmus says, Massei explains it away. :waitasec: If they wanted us to think it was a hair of Knox's, the Massei report would be a perfect place in which to do so. Under the microscope it did not read as a hair. So it is very honest reporting .

I agree, in the picture, it looks like hair.

I did see on PMF that Barbie Nadeau in her book about Knox, Angel Face, says in 2 separate places:

"An examination of her vagina revealed a hair that the police removed and put into a plastic bag. 'It's blonde,' Stefanoni said, drecting the collection officer to note that the hair was not Meredith's"

"'It's blonde,' the scientific police officer said as he pulled a long hair from Meredith's blood-soaked hand."

But this was based on early reports, and Massei discounts it. It seems to me to be outright dishonesty on Nadeau's part to place this in her book. So much for her being unbiased and objective. Others confirm this:

The hair-like filaments found on Meredith's body were placed under a microscope by Stefanoni. None was determined to be a human hair. To Stefanoni they "appeared to be wool fibers," but even that was not confirmed.....

"...guardate al microscopio erano apparse essere delle fibre di lana e non avevano dato alcun esito." (Massei, Original Italian, page 195)

It looks like those fibers could be damn near anything. Except hair.

I know that Barbie has claimed that the fiber found on Meredith's left hand was lost after it was collected. (This, according to Skep on the PMF site.) But how could such a potentially critical piece of evidence become lost? The only thing lost---that I'm aware of---was the bra clasp, and it was not lost after being collected and was later found. Even so, Massei describes how the clasp was lost and how it was recovered. If the so-called "blond hair" from Meredith's hand had become lost, don't you think Stefanoni would have had to do some serious splainin' before the court? No mention of it being lost in the Massei Report. And no mention of its loss in Barbie's book either.

But even if we suppose that the fiber had been lost---and therefore never identified as being a hair---why does Barbie write this in her book?...

"It's blonde," the scientific police officer said as he pulled the hair from Meredith's blood-soaked hand. (Angel Face, page 49.)

The hair? Did Barbie herself later find that fiber and have it examined? (What next, mixed hairs?)

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7302897

 

[SMK]

Initially, it was said there were several strands of hair, and if Nadeau can be trusted, Stefononi said, "it's blonde". So as one can see from the Nov 2007 article, it was initially a big deal, which fell to nothing under forensic testing (it was among headlines that Knox was shown on video walking to the cottage, which also proved to be baseless) :

Hair found in Meredith's fist may identify killer-Perugia 13 Nov 2007

A few strands of hair found in Meredith Kercher's clenched and bloodied fist may hold the clue to the identity of her killer, it has emerged.
Dr Luca Lalli, the pathologist who conducted the autopsy on Miss Kercher, said he had discovered "some hairs, some skin cells and some other fibres" on her body.

Forensic experts in Rome are now analysing the evidence and are expected to deliver their results on Thursday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569253/Hair-found-in-Merediths-fist-may-identify-killer.html

 

[Nova]

I guess I'm thinking of those heavy industrial mop buckets I remember seeing the janitors at school with. Maybe it would have been easily carried. I think our new poster had a valid point of why it wasn't caught on the video, but we don't know for sure which was AK walked.

I still find it strange about the bucket, but it's not enough to convict. It is enough to wonder if they did drive there that night and see something. Maybe they didn't really "see" anything, but after discovering the body the next day, thought it was the best thing to just say they weren't there getting the bucket.

Know what I mean? Maybe when they got there, the doors to the room and the house were closed, they got the bucket and left. RG says in his testimony that someone must have returned to the house. Maybe he says that because he felt bad and returned. He could have spotted them leaving with the bucket at that point, reentered the house to check if MK was alive or not, then put the duvet on her and left, that time locking her door.

I guess if the house was dark when they arrived for the bucket, then they'd assume no one was home, so they wouldn't knock on MK's door.

OR like you said, maybe the bucket was light and she could have carried it in one hand.

I pulled up another picture of the mop and posted it. There were actually two mops in that bucket, and the short thing you refer to looks like the lever that one would use to squeeze the mop in the bucket.

Yes, I do understand: people who lie can be guilty, or innocent and simply afraid.

I think we should just ignore my post on the mop and bucket: Allusonz has convinced me I'm not even looking at the right receptacle and you've shown I'm looking at a lever rather than a mop.

 

[Nova]

Filomena testified to the state of the shutters in 3 different positions. I don't seriously believe she knows what state those shutters were in. As well since we know they could not be closed properly and this had been told to the person owning the cottage, the fact that it was very windy the night of Nov 1st I could easily see how the shutters could blow open further

According to the ballistics expert the pattern was consistent with a rock being thrown from the outside. His testimony was not considered as he was not a rock throwing expert

Here is a link to the CCTV I believe it is of the night of the murder in which testimony confirmed it to be MK and RG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgeJeYoNadA

I don't understand what I'm supposed to see. There seems to be a group of six or so people, including a couple of children. ?????

 

[Nova]

Yep, must have missed it. It is a standard reply to a standard attitude it seems. Nova admitted in a way that it was due to frustration.

What I "admitted" was that my own snarkiness was due to my frustration with the disingenuous word games of pro-guilters. At the time I did not mean you.

But now you post this...

 

[SMK]

I don't understand what I'm supposed to see. There seems to be a group of six or so people, including a couple of children. ?????

Here is one of the comments on the YouTube, Nova::laugh::laugh:

The title of this video is wrong. This video shows a police car arriving at Meredith's apartment. Meredith was dead at this time. There are two videos like this. One shows the first police car arriving and the other shows a police car arriving later in the afternoon. The shadows on this video indicated the video was from around 12:47 pm.

and also:

who are the people in the video and why is it shown looped? yeah, I think I saw my mother in that video too..