Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[wasnt_me]

Sorry, just because you do something doesn't mean it was planned. And I have still have issues with the phone call from dad as it is not mentioned in the call that dinner had been eaten. That being said, I also don't see how lying about what time she ate dinner would help her case. The important thing is she claims she was at home. Whether she was eating or watching a movie or taking shower isn't important.

I'm going downstairs to eat my third "unplanned to be consumed" reese's klondike bar.

 

[otto]

Well, he says he doesn't know if she went out "for a few minutes". In the early evening we know she answered the door and talked to Jovana while Raf was in the bathroom. Seems like a moment where he may not have been sure exactly where she was or if she stepped outside for a few minutes.

I'm pretty sure that Sollecito was questioned about the time that he claims he was sleeping (not on the phone with his father). The question was whether he could verify that she was with him the entire night, and the answer was no.

 

[otto]

Stomach contents are a viable way of determining TOD when ENOUGH VARIABLES are known which in this particular case there are sufficient variables known to provide an accurate TOD. Add to that a videotaped autopsy for all to see.

From the testimony:

<snpped>

I posted a medical research paper link. I would be very interested in reading a paper that addresses this point and arrives at a different conclusion. Barring that, I'm in no position to speculate that the research paper arrived at incorrect conclusions. My understanding is that stomach contents are influenced by everything from general health, room temperature, time of murder/time of death/discovery of the body/autopsy, to several other factors. It seems to me that the prosecution theory related more to external events than stomach contents.

If sufficient variables were known, we would know: the number of hours since death (I believe she bled out), room temperature through the evening and to the next day at 1 PM when she was found and again until midnight when I think the coroner had the stomach contents, whether her metabolism was slowed due to tiredness and drinking until 6 AM the previous day (Halloween), how rested she was (general health), et cetera. Have those factors/variables been taken into consideration?

 

[Allusonz]

She didn't call her mother back because it was later and her mother was either in the hospital, or at home with serious health concerns (don't remember which).

Her mother was in the hospital and she had not made her daily call thus the fact that the 8:56 call was cut off should speak volumes

 

[Allusonz]

I posted a medical research paper link. I would be very interested in reading a paper that addresses this point and arrives at a different conclusion. Barring that, I'm in no position to speculate that the research paper arrived at incorrect conclusions. My understanding is that stomach contents are influenced by everything from general health, room temperature, time of murder/discovery of the body/autopsy, to several other factors. It seems to me that the prosecution theory related more to external events than stomach contents.

Terrific that you did it does not alter the fact that it is still a viable way of determining TOD when ENOUGH VARIABLES are known which in this case there are. Speak to any pathologist

ETA As well the experts that testified including the prosecution one did not feel there was any issue with determining this during trial

 

[Malkmus]

Dinner included fish, with Sollecito chopping the head off the fish and it being bloody (think it was Knox that described the bloody fish preparation for the meal). I suspect that took a little preparation and preplanning - meaning that dinner was planned.

No, that just means Rafaelle planned on having dinner at that time. Regardless, it still doesn't help <modsnip> that she knew what time she would be eating.

The water spill happened after dinner and before the call with Dr Sollecito. <modsnip>.

<modsnip>. I know the times and I know two things:

1. The call doesn't mention dinner
2. The sink had a problem of leaking in general. It was probably leaking anytime Raf used it for whatever amount of time. He could have been washing dishes to prepare to eat on.

Anything to distance themselves from the time of the murder ...

Providing an incorrect dinner time, specifically later in the evening, helps fill out the hours from 8:42 PM until 6ish AM. The earlier the murder, when Knox and Sollecito have an alibi, the better for them. The later they stayed at the apartment, the better for them.

But it doesn't matter. They claim they were at home all night. Stating they ate dinner at 10 or 11 doesn't change the notion that they were at home.

She was finished dinner by about 8:30. The pipes leaked. There was a phone call with Dr Sollecito. The phones for Knox and Sollecito were turned off. The pair are unaccounted for until the following morning. Claims that the computer was accessed cannot be verified after 8:40, and it's possible that the movie simply played out ("no human interaction" per report) at 9:10. In order to argue that Knox and Sollecito are not guilty, it's desirable to have the murder occur at 8:50 and dinner at 9:30.

The pair also lied about when they got up. Their story is that they slept until about 10 AM, and we know that's not true. They haven't provided an explanation.

Because someone wakes up and plays with their computer early in the morning doesn't mean they got out of bed or didn't just go back to sleep. I see you also insinuate the phones being turned off as suspicious. Can you explain how turning off the phones plays into what has been established as a non-premeditated murder?

 

[miley]

What a change from December to March, huh?

would it be perjury if RG just sits up there and picks his favorite versions to retell?

Wonder how uncomfortable his chair will be as he retells his "uncomfortable truths" on the witness stand.

bbm
I believe he was given a deal .. in exchange for a reduced sentence.

the reduced sentence had nothing to do with the fast-track..
I feel pretty confident making this claim (and in the past, cited several sources to back it up)

I know this isn't popular w/ everyone (I'm still open) but no one has proven otherwise

 

[Malkmus]

Her mother was in the hospital and she had not made her daily call thus the fact that the 8:56 call was cut off should speak volumes

Correct. I think Otto may have misunderstood the circumstances to be that Meredith didn't call her mother back after her mother tried to call her or something like that. The fact is Meredith made two back to back aborted calls. One to her mother and to her bank, without completing either one. Why would she make two incomplete calls and was it even her that made them.

 

[Allusonz]

Am I wrong in surmising that the Nike trainers had a very similar tread pattern to Rudy's shoes? So, in fact, we would have to surmise that Raffaelle happened to have the poor luck to choose a pair of shoes that would be quite similar to Rudy's? i.e. The reason the defense can say the shoe pattern is actually Rudy's is because the shoe bottoms are remarkably similar in tread? True or not? If true, I fall on the side of the defense for this evidence. Soft pillow, similair to tread of Rudy's... I vote Rudy.

It was actually RS's family that noted that the number of circles (tread) on the bottom of the shoes did not match RS's but did match RG's

 

[Allusonz]

bbm
I believe he was given a deal .. in exchange for a reduced sentence.

the reduced sentence had nothing to do with the fast-track..
I feel pretty confident making this claim (and in the past, cited several sources to back it up)

I know this isn't popular w/ everyone (I'm still open) but no one has proven otherwise

I totally agree Miley and I know the amount of research you did on this. There was definately a deal

 

[otto]

Her mother was in the hospital and she had not made her daily call thus the fact that the 8:56 call was cut off should speak volumes

I understood that her mother was unable to take that call that evening.

 

[Salem]

Please stop bickering - it ruins the whole thread. At some point, there needs to be an agreement to disagree. It's okay to disagree. Really.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[otto]

Terrific that you did it does not alter the fact that it is still a viable way of determining TOD when ENOUGH VARIABLES are known which in this case there are. Speak to any pathologist

ETA As well the experts that testified including the prosecution one did not feel there was any issue with determining this during trial

If sufficient variables were known, we would know: the number of hours since death (I believe she bled out), room temperature through the evening and to the next day at 1 PM when she was found and again until midnight when I think the coroner had the stomach contents, whether her metabolism was slowed due to tiredness and drinking until 6 AM the previous day (Halloween), how rested she was (general health), et cetera. Have those factors/variables been taken into consideration?

 

[Malkmus]

I understood that her mother was unable to take that call that evening.

It was a one second call. Therefore no conversation, and no way that Meredith could know that her mother was unable to take the call.

 

[Allusonz]

more like.. the motive was solved

and still is according to Mignini's CNN interview :giggle:

 

[Malkmus]

This was news to me:

when Guede took the stand during the pair's first trial, he declined to answer prosecutors' questions or offer any spontaneous testimony.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...uZalzg?docId=4635430fbd6b4a6684f1953b2b269206

I wonder if some sort of action will be taken this time to prevent him from doing the same?

 

[Allusonz]

If sufficient variables were known, we would know: the number of hours since death (I believe she bled out), room temperature through the evening and to the next day at 1 PM when she was found and again until midnight when I think the coroner had the stomach contents, whether her metabolism was slowed due to tiredness and drinking until 6 AM the previous day (Halloween), how rested she was (general health), et cetera. Have those factors/variables been taken into consideration?

You might of forgot that Stephanoni would not allow Dr. Lalli to take the body temperature at IIRC 2:40 when he arrived as he was told it may contaminate the crime scene/body

 

[Allusonz]

If sufficient variables were known, we would know: the number of hours since death (I believe she bled out), room temperature through the evening and to the next day at 1 PM when she was found and again until midnight when I think the coroner had the stomach contents, whether her metabolism was slowed due to tiredness and drinking until 6 AM the previous day (Halloween), how rested she was (general health), et cetera. Have those factors/variables been taken into consideration?

Yes Otto they were even the fact that she was sitting and watching a movie which allows for a different rate of digestion compared to when she was walking. They even finally got her correct body weight

 

[miley]

ILE destroyed three out of four hard drives that they investigated. And you want me to take their word on computer usage? I don't think so.

watched videos and played games? .. I don't think so either

 

[Allusonz]

I'm very interested at when money came into the motive.

Seems like that didn't want to blame it on AK or RS because, of course, neither of their prints are on MK's bag in blood. They knew they had a third person's print or dna or something on it in blood, so that's when the cornered AK about any third suspect, and she goes off blaming PL.

Then when the prints come back RG, they get him in there and he starts now having to make up excuses about what happened to the money. Sound right?

because up till the 18nov, all the motive in the paper was sex-fueled drug killing and AK and MK fought over hygeine and AK brought strange men home, type thing. Then after RG came in the mix, the motive evolved.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nt-Foxy-Knoxy-stolen-money.html#ixzz1QLUysTUM

I know this. AK had $4000 in her bank account. unless she was $4, 200 or so in debt to this pusher, what was the point of murdering MK just to rob that little bit of cash of MK? And isn't her new bf, RS's family wealthy? She couldn't ask him to save her from the pusher? Come on, now.

ETA--also note they said Knox and Guede were very probably in the house. NOT ONE WORD about RS, the one who's family HAS money.

Wonder how they knew MK hid money in her drawers? FR? (who knows who keeps whom's doors locked, where the money is kept, where the glass is, everything) and then suddenly, RG knows this fact, too. Go figure. Either because he stole it or because the police told him about it. He might not even have stolen money out her drawer in the first place. Might have gotten it out of her purse and just went along with it being in the drawer so he could make up the story about Knox.

She as well still had 10,000 us which she had not taken with her