Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[Monzoo]

Let us hope so.....

One thing I hope is that every news report about this case will no longer have comments talking about the "double DNA knife."


... yeah, I know. The comments from "Harry Rag" will probably continue regardless.

 

[Nova]

Did not mean anyone here. There was a minority who thought Guede would be a "breakthrough" in general on forums supportive to Knox.

I was speaking in general, my friend. I wasn't accusing you of having said anything one way or another.

 

[SMK]

I was speaking in general, my friend. I wasn't accusing you of having said anything one way or another.

:dance::blushing:

 

[SkewedView]

Delurking for a moment because this thought amused me (even though there is enough truth in it to also sicken me)...

So, how long do you think it will be before the Independent Experts are charged with Slander and/or are 'investigated for false testimony'? :crazy:

Okay, back to lurking before I stupidly respond to any cognitive dissonance.

 

[Nova]

Even tho my reply will do no use and poo-poo'd away:

1- Claiming you are on your computer at the time of a murder is different than 'a turned off computer' IMO.

2- dna mixed with the victims blood (but not other flatmates which had alibis)
is not 'expected' IMO.

3- Barefoot prints in luminol at a murder scene, comparable to the defendants is not expected either IMO. Why not shoeprints? Why not evidence of prior spills/barefooted cleaning/fruit juice or whatever? Was RS ever in the cottage barefooted before the murder?

4- I don't see giving misleading statements or conflicting answers in a murder investigation as 'exaggerations'.

5- 'competant analysis' :floorlaugh: Does that give me a two snark free advantage? I believe the court will continue to rule the break-in as 'staged' regardless of that competant analysis.

6- In this case, the autopsy and evidence of bruising/multiple wounds gave the jury/judges the impression of multiple attackers.

7- 'Ditto' on the bathmat print in that the court found it as contributed by RS, don't blame me :innocent: . And there has to have been some 'cleaning' around it just by the nature of the print. Does the 'bathmat boogie' ring a bell?

1. 75% of the available hard drives were destroyed, so I don't know how we can believe when the computer activity stopped. But assuming ILE's times are correct, there's nothing particularly incriminating about not knowing exactly when you stopped using your computer. I couldn't give you times for my usage last night.

2. Honestly, I'm not sure if AK's DNA was mixed with MK's blood or not at this point. But assuming it was, that tells us nothing as to when AK's DNA was deposited there.

3. Well, we know AK came home the next morning and took a shower. She walked around barefoot. Where's the mystery? As for RS' alleged footprints, I'm not convinced they exist.

4. I will wager there has never been anyone who was subjected to extensive interrogation who didn't give conflicting and/or false responses. We only hear about the ones LE decides to charge. The rest are shrugged off as "harmless" discrepancies.

Except for a brief period under pressure and influenced by the lies of ILE, AK and RS have alibied each other. That's the bottom line, not whether they kept a stop watch and a journal of what they did every minute.

5. The burden of the proof is on the prosecution. What we know for a fact is that no competent forensic analysis was performed of FR's room or the ground outside. (So, no, no additional snark was earned there.)

6. "Impression"? What happened to proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I think Hendry shows rather conclusively that there simply wasn't room for three people to attack MK simultaneously in her tiny room. Even Mignini has backed off and is now putting AK in another room, apparently shouting instructions in a language she did not speak.

7. At best, the footprint on the mat has been called "consistent with" RS. It was never declared a match. And even that consistency has been called into question by better qualified experts.

There. You were neither ignored nor "pooh pooh'd"!

 

[Nova]

I do. Not that I think that it is his fault directly, but irrational American hatred was high in Europe after the invasion of Iraq. When I would go to Scotland, if someone mistook me for an Australian or Canadian, I would not correct them. I remember the first time around 2003, I corrected someone that I was an American, they were suprised because I seemed so well read and articulate.

Obvously, I can't prove that anti-Americanism wasn't a factor. (In fact, it obviously was a factor in some of the media coverage.)

But the program I saw made it sound like a group of Italian jurors sat in a room and made a group decision to convict an innocent American woman. That's the part I don't believe.

 

[mdana]

Obvously, I can't prove that anti-Americanism wasn't a factor. (In fact, it obviously was a factor in some of the media coverage.)

But the program I saw made it sound like a group of Italian jurors sat in a room and made a group decision to convict an innocent American woman. That's the part I don't believe.

I didn't mean to make my post sound so pompous, but what I was trying to explain was the change I noticed from the 1997-2001 period to the post 2003 period when I went to the U.K. From what I have read it was even more pronounced in countries like France and Italy. I don't think the "George Bush"/anti-American factor was overwhelming, but it played a small part to stack the case against them.

I see it through the prism of Mignini needed a Hail Mary after his abuse of office charges were hanging over his conduct. I think it was also necessary to confuse the media and public about why RG was walking around free after not being in custody for his burglaries just prior to the murder. AK was the perfect scapegoat and RS got taken along for the ride since he was her alibi. As long as the local and national media are fixated on AK, no questions are ever asked about why a person like RG was not booked and held for his previous crimes. If he had been, MK would most likely still be alive.

 

[mdana]

Is anyone sickened by the coddling of RG by the guilters? I saw one comment on a site that shall not be mentioned akin to "at least RG is showing some remorse and finally telling the truth, not like that Knox." Which I guess is valid, if you view AK as Satan and RS as the Anti-Christ. However, I find it ironic that so many posters that profess to being "Crusaders" in their zeal for the truth about Meredith have been hoodwinked into siding with the one most likely to have violated her and so cruelly ended her life.

I just find so much of this case and the way it has been handled by many with an agenda so sad and cynical.

 

[SkewedView]

Is anyone sickened by the coddling of RG by the guilters? I saw one comment on a site that shall not be mentioned akin to "at least RG is showing some remorse and finally telling the truth, not like that Knox." Which I guess is valid, if you view AK as Satan and RS as the Anti-Christ. However, I find it ironic that so many posters that profess to being "Crusaders" in their zeal for the truth about Meredith have been hoodwinked into siding with the one most likely to have violated her and so cruelly ended her life.

I just find so much of this case and the way it has been handled by many with an agenda so sad and cynical.

Delurking, because two words I used in my last post explain it quite well: Cognitive Dissonance.

Back to lurking, for realz this time...:crazy:

 

[evelyn24]

The attitude about Americans around Europe in particular did not start or end with George Bush.
It's been around for YEARS and YEARS. If not some foreign policy disagreement it's something else, but we are seen in a poor light. Even our friendliness is mocked. The "spoiled" American is a term often used. I definitely think it was a factor to some degree.

 

[mdana]

The attitude about Americans around Europe in particular did not start or end with George Bush.
It's been around for YEARS and YEARS. If not some foreign policy disagreement it's something else, but we are seen in a poor light. Even our friendliness is mocked. The "spoiled" American is a term often used. I definitely think it was a factor to some degree.

It may have always been there to a certain degree, but I noticed when I first started going to the U.K. that the people I met seemed pro-American and some of this was while Bush was in office (I went the month before 9/11) but around 2003/2004 people would badmouth the US much more easily. It seems to have climaxed around 2007 (again I had a trip a month before MK's murder) from my experiences. YMMV

 

[Allusonz]

Delurking for a moment because this thought amused me (even though there is enough truth in it to also sicken me)...

So, how long do you think it will be before the Independent Experts are charged with Slander and/or are 'investigated for false testimony'? :crazy:

Okay, back to lurking before I stupidly respond to any cognitive dissonance.

OMG this tickled my funny bone

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

ETA 19 and counting and yes I can count that high I think

 

[SMK]

Just wanted to post one last article I found, as it really is being viewed as a positive thing all around and justifies many posters' original suspicions:

Amanda Knox 'Extremely Happy' With Expert Panel's DNA Findings, Father Says

Amanda Knox, an American college student who is appealing her Italian murder conviction, was "extremely happy" today after hearing that a court-appionted panel of DNA experts concluded that key DNA evidence used to convict her may have been contaminated.

"She's extremely happy," said her father Curt Knox in an exclusive interview with ABC News. "It's a weight off of her shoulders... She knew she was innocent, but having independent experts say that the DNA evidence is unreliable and potentially contaminated is a big step towards bringing her home."

[...]

The report filed today in a Perugia court by court-appointed forensic experts, and obtained by ABC News, give credence to the defense lawyers of both Knox andRaffaele Sollecito, who had argued that the evidence against their clients had been contaminated by police during their investigation.

"When I got the news today, you know, it was extraordinary," her father said. "We're still very hopeful that the court will see all of these compounding things and free her in September."

"We are thrilled," Knox's mother, Edda Mellas, told ABC News from Italy where she is waiting to visit with her daughter in prison.
[Knox attorney said:]

"This is what our experts said all along. This is great news. We"ve always known Amanda is innocent."
We have asked all along for an independent review of DNA which we were denied during the trial. Finally, after three and a half years, independent experts confirmed that the DNA results were not reliable and they were inconclusive."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-extremely-happy-dna-ruling-murder-appeal/story?id=13955868

 

[Allusonz]

Obvously, I can't prove that anti-Americanism wasn't a factor. (In fact, it obviously was a factor in some of the media coverage.)

But the program I saw made it sound like a group of Italian jurors sat in a room and made a group decision to convict an innocent American woman. That's the part I don't believe.

I don't believe politics entered the picture here. Unless you point towards very deep problems within Italy specifically Perugia.

The DNA report is scathing and truly more than I had anticipated and it is not just directed towards Stephanoni. It has been directed at ILE forensics team, the collection, storage, and analyzing. This simply involves too many people as we have seen from the various videos. Mignini was in charge of this investigation. Where the hammer falls I don't know but I do know this is bigger than one individual. What it will actually do for AK and RS I don't know either and I am still watching this all unfold with caution

 

[SMK]

One thing which I think has clearly not been given as much attention as it should have been today:

I recall full well when the Independent Panel, in the early days of the appeal, said "the dna was too little to retest".

Everyone at Perugia Murder File and True Justice forums hooted with scornful laughter about the pro-innocence campers "thinking this was good news for Knox". No, they said, "all it will lead to is the original testing being examined, and we know the protocol was impeccable".

Well, fast forward to today, and the forensic panel is saying, "The international procedures for inspection, protocol and collection of evidence were not followed" for both the bra clasp and the knife, and we are reading things like,
The court-appointed experts said in a report Wednesday obtained by The Associated Press that the genetic profile attributed to Kercher is "unreliable" and that results may have been contaminated on both the blade and bra clasp.

And we are still supposed to think those on PMF knew what they were talking about????

Amanda Knox Appeal: Big Victory For Knox On DNA Finishes Off Prosecution's Case
It's over, not officially of course, but it's over none the less. The prosecution's case against Amanda Knox has crashed as the court appointed DNA experts have turned in a 144 page report which completely destroys the the so-called 'evidence' against Knox. The DNA was the last foothold for the prosecution and they lost big-time on that one. The experts Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti have stated that the DNA testing of the knife and bra clasp was "unreliable" and possibly the result of contamination. They further stated that the investigators/police handling of the evidence was not acceptable, and that the testing of the low copy number DNA did not meet minimum international standards. The DNA could not be retested because there was nothing to test so, as ordered by the court, the experts turned their attention to the collection of evidence and the DNA testing procedures.

http://amandaknoxappealforum.blogspot.com/2011/06/amanda-knox-appeal-big-victory-for-knox.html

 

[Allusonz]

That was me too. I'm very happy to hear the independent tests confirmed what we all believed to be the case. Will it matter though?

I do believe this matters this time but only because of the press and what it is doing to the perception of Italy. There is currently another case very similar going on there which as well appears to be a railroad job but I have seen very little written about it

 

[Allusonz]

Franks New Blog... I simply have to keep bringing him up as he as well has been charged but he did bring much to our attention

http://perugiashock.com/

 

[Nova]

The attitude about Americans around Europe in particular did not start or end with George Bush.
It's been around for YEARS and YEARS. If not some foreign policy disagreement it's something else, but we are seen in a poor light. Even our friendliness is mocked. The "spoiled" American is a term often used. I definitely think it was a factor to some degree.

When my husband and I did our "grand tour" (six weeks around Western Europe), the European edition of Time was full of letters re anti-Americanism there. That was in 1979. (As it happened, we were treated very well, but we were traveling during the off-season when crowds were few.)

I'm not naive about the way Americans are perceived (nor am I blind to the ways we contribute to that perception).

Maybe there was a subconscious influence and maybe anti-Americanism predisposed Italian jurors to believe the worst about Amanda Knox. But I don't believe Western Europeans would deliberately convict a woman they believe to be innocent, just because she is American. That was my only point.

 

[SMK]

I don't believe politics entered the picture here. Unless you point towards very deep problems within Italy specifically Perugia.

The DNA report is scathing and truly more than I had anticipated and it is not just directed towards Stephanoni. It has been directed at ILE forensics team, the collection, storage, and analyzing. This simply involves too many people as we have seen from the various videos. Mignini was in charge of this investigation. Where the hammer falls I don't know but I do know this is bigger than one individual. What it will actually do for AK and RS I don't know either and I am still watching this all unfold with caution

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Allusonz]

This one truly made me chuckle of Nick Pisa and I apologize if this article has already been posted

"The experts also stressed that "international standards of searching for and gathering evidence were not followed with regard to the knife and the bra clasp".

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...After_DNA_Evidence_May_Have_Been_Contaminated