Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[Nova]

I agree... not with the 'best post' stuff, but with your comments :crazy: . Not really any surprises because we already knew of the LCN on the knife that was used and could not be re-tested, contamination can NEVER be ruled out (but has to be proven in court), and RS's dna was on the bra clasp. So the only big problem I see is with notations... if they were claimed to have been done, but were not.
The court may 'throw out' both the knife and bra-clasp, but there is plenty more evidence against them, or the court may give more weight to certain explanations/analysis of the knife and clasp. It seems to me the report is a scientific/academic explanation in a 'perfect setting', where as Dr S's explanations are of a more practical/everyday-work nature of a busy forensics lab. But that is just my feelings and I will duck the expected in-coming post-missles and snark-rockets.

No snark here, but what you ignore is that when "real world" conditions are sufficiently poor, then the results obtained from those conditions are not reliable. That's what yesterday's reports are saying: Stefanoni should not have claimed certainty where none was justified by the "real world" results.

 

[dgfred]

what would be an appropriate response to this???:waitasec:
..........................:waitasec:.................:razz:

Oh... I was sort of expecting it (the famous razz) :rocker: .

 

[dgfred]

No snark here, but what you ignore is that when "real world" conditions are sufficiently poor, then the results obtained from those conditions are not reliable. That's what yesterday's reports are saying: Stefanoni should not have claimed certainty where none was justified by the "real world" results.

Darn, 'cause 3 snarks and your out!

I don't recall how 'certain' DrS was with the LCN use, only she and top forensic 'people' in Italy backed her methods and results as 'valid'. Certain IMO would be 100% sure... which I don't think anyone was.

 

[SMK]

Oh... I was sort of expecting it (the famous razz) :rocker: .

Somehow, razzing keeps me from going insane!:giggle::silly:

 

[Nova]

It's a good thing, then, that Knox an Sollecito didn't confess to murdering Meredith!

A few threads back you spent several days insisting that Knox' statement WAS a confession, despite all insistence to the contrary. I'm glad you've seen the light.

 

[Nova]

Hopefully not in some other country!

No, experts in other countries don't simply take dictation from the Perugia prosecutor.

 

[emyr]

True ... no human activty with the computer could be confirmed from 8:40 until about 6 AM. Knox said that she had a shower at the cottage, but we don't know that - she has been untruthful throughout the investigation. We also have eyewitness testimony from Guede confirming that Knox and Sollecito were at the scene and committed the murder.

Regarding DNA, at this time, it is my understanding that the clasp has DNA that can be connected to Sollecito. However, I look forward to reading the translated report to get a better understanding of the findings.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about what was retrieved from the computer, I'm talking about information from the web service provider Fastweb: Page 306-307 of the Messai reports.

From what I gather from those reports pages, it is saying there is zero possiblity that either of them were surfing the web during those hours. However, they are incapable of assessing whether or not they were sharing, downloading, or viewing music or video files, which used a different process that could not be tracked.

This just caused me to re-read pages 308-309 (Oh my gosh it makes me want to beat my head on a wall), which goes into detail about an ad-type window or call to the apple server in relation to Quick Time at 12:58 a.m. Re-reading this in its entirety makes me realize that there is no good reason for this to occur if no one is there.

So I am now of the belief that Raffaelle was at his apartment at 12:58 a.m. and on his laptop.

 

[Nova]

The big mystery must be: Where did it fly from? Did it fly from Sollecito's apartment into a locked bedroom in the cottage?

RS had been to the apartment numerous times (even if he and AK tended to sleep at his place). Presumably, his DNA was in many places in the cottage, even if those weren't the places that ILE chose to test.

 

[dgfred]

Somehow, razzing keeps me from going insane!:giggle::silly:

Well then I am all for it pal. As I said before, it helps me to know that I made my point to you. So thanks to you and your razz.

 

[dgfred]

RS had been to the apartment numerous times (even if he and AK tended to sleep at his place). Presumably, his DNA was in many places in the cottage, even if those weren't the places that ILE chose to test.

Kind of sssstttttrrrreeeettttcccchhhhiiiinnnggg in my opinion there.

 

[Nova]

Pointing the finger at Lumamba, taking a shower at the crime scene, being inconsistent about when they ate dinner, and not acting appropriately grief-stricken would be enough for many people to convict them both. I disagree strongly with that, but it is true.

Is my understanding of the remaining facts correct?

Homeless guys testimony: Is everyone in agreement that it is not useable?
Shopowner testimony: not useable?
Kokamani testimony: not useable?
Footprint on pillow: not useable?
Placed call to carbineri after police showed up: not true?
Mop: had zero to do with crime, not useable?

Remaining evidence, strongest version presented:

Staged break-in, little stolen, doors locked, phones disposed of: No one has ever duplicated the break-in. Specifically no one has climbed through the window to prove it could be done. If Rudy acted alone, why didn't he steal more? Why would he lock Meredith's room? Why would he take the phones and throw them away?

Luminol footprints: Only one foot flouresced. No one else's foot flouresced including the many people tromping through the house who could have stepped in the same things Amanda stepped in (except, notedly, the shower). Meredith's DNA found in some of those footprints.

Bloody footprint in bathroom: Rudy's shoe prints, both right and left, present in the bedroom and hallway. How did he get a bare footprint in the bathroom?

Murder necistates multiple people: What murderer switches his attack from right to left? How could you strip someone and murder them at the same time? With no evidence that they fought?

Bloody bathroom: No DNA presented of Rudy's or anyone else besides Amanda and Meredith in bathroom.

Lack of alibi: Raf states he was on his computer, but his computer does not reflect this. He stated he got up late when his computer indicates he got up early. IMPORTANT NOTE: I am not positive about this, but I think the internet records indicate zero incoming data in those night hours, which means neither of them was surfing the internet. Please confirm.

Suspicious behaviour: Amanda said nothing was stolen, Meredith usually locked her door. She placed herself at murder scene when Raffaelle's testimony changed and said she might have left, cartwheel at police station. She wasn't concerned her door was open. She showered there (perhaps the most damaging among all these). Raf wrote in his journal that maybe what happened was he cooked for Meredith and pricked her with a knife. Amanda wrote in her journal that maybe Raffaelle went to her house killed Meredith and came home and planted her fingerprints on the knife while she was sleeping, Amanda did not strenously fight to have Lumamba freed from jail for the two weeks he was in jail. They were supposed to go to Gubbio that day and by 11am they hadn't gone yet. They smoked pot.

Did I miss anything?

The aggregate of the above could, in my view, free Raffaelle and convict Amanda of being an accessory. Because there is now zero evidence besides a bloody male footprint that proves he was there.

I don't see any glaring errors here, but there are others who know the case better than I.

Ron Hendry (you can google him) makes a good case for both the break-in and RG as a lone assailant.

Most of your questions are answered if RG is on the toilet and surprised by MK returning home.

 

[Nova]

True ... no human activty with the computer could be confirmed from 8:40 until about 6 AM. Knox said that she had a shower at the cottage, but we don't know that - she has been untruthful throughout the investigation. We also have eyewitness testimony from Guede confirming that Knox and Sollecito were at the scene and committed the murder.

Regarding DNA, at this time, it is my understanding that the clasp has DNA that can be connected to Sollecito. However, I look forward to reading the translated report to get a better understanding of the findings.

So Knox is a chronic liar but Guede is a reliable witness. Could you be any more transparent?

 

[Nova]

Darn, 'cause 3 snarks and your out!

I don't recall how 'certain' DrS was with the LCN use, only she and top forensic 'people' in Italy backed her methods and results as 'valid'. Certain IMO would be 100% sure... which I don't think anyone was.

BBM: :floorlaugh:

 

[otto]

Awesome!

The same people who don't understand or refuse to accept false confessions are now going to do the same with false readings. I am joining SkewedView in the lurkers' balcony until it is safe to come back down to the mezzanine.

Are there any false murder confessions associated with this particular case?

 

[Nova]

Kind of sssstttttrrrreeeettttcccchhhhiiiinnnggg in my opinion there.

Why? Because RS hadn't been to the cottage? Otherwise, I don't understand how one forms an opinion about invisible DNA.

 

[dgfred]

You're welcome.

 

[dgfred]

Why? Because RS hadn't been to the cottage? Otherwise, I don't understand how one forms an opinion about invisible DNA.

OK, so the overall position now is that RS's dna IS/IS NOT on the clasp... but if there it is due to contamination??? Dang, that's a winner every time... all bases covered.

 

[SMK]

Gee, I hope Amanda was not dancing in vain. :great: And why are they still calling her, "Foxy Knoxy"??:waitasec:

Knox was given the news by fellow inmates at Capanne jail, near Perugia, after they saw the revelations on television.

Clapping and cheering, inmates crowded round her - with many also embracing her and telling her it was only a matter of time before she was released.
The damning report does mean chances of her being freed on appeal have risen significantly, although its claims must still be discussed in court and any decision is unlikely until the autumn.
Prison chaplain Father Saulo Scarabattoli said: 'I saw a light in her eyes for the first time in nearly four years. She was singing and dancing and so happy.
'All the inmates in the prison crowded round here and were hugging her. She said "At last a weight has been lifted from me. People are beginning to see Raffaele and I had nothing to do with this."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ts-doubt-murder-conviction.html#ixzz1QmyzfEJj

 

[otto]

No snark here, but what you ignore is that when "real world" conditions are sufficiently poor, then the results obtained from those conditions are not reliable. That's what yesterday's reports are saying: Stefanoni should not have claimed certainty where none was justified by the "real world" results.

My understanding is that there are certain protocols that the academics allege were not followed by Dr Stefanoni. For example, regarding the LNC DNA, one of the criticisms is that the LNC DNA should have been tested in a different lab, rather than in the same lab. This is an extra step that is recommended in order to absolutely ensure that lab contamination cannot be a factor. This does not mean that lab contamination did occur, but that a step that is recommended to further advance the belief that it could not have occurred was not done.

 

[dgfred]

Well it seems many are 'dancing' already.

And she chose that nickname... might as well keep it. :innocent: