Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[wasnt_me]

When she stated in her testimony that the police hit her on the head I think she said to help her remember

I do not get how you can be labeled for statements made under oath to tell the truth...???????

 

[mdana]

These 125 proven false confessions should put to rest any doubts that modern psychological interrogation techniques can cause innocent suspects to confess. 86% (or almost 9 of every 10) of the individuals in their sample whose false confessions were not discovered by police or dismissed by prosecutors before trial were eventually convicted.

http://http://www.fd.org/pdf_lib/Coerced%20False%20Confessions.pdf

If anyone doubts the existence or the problems they create to rebuild the presumption of innocence, this is a good resource to challenge your assumptions.

I have always wondered how people that follow the case were introduced to AK's original police statement as she morphed from a witness into a suspect.
I would estimate that many who were introduced to this case through that introduction make up a large portion of the AK and RS are guilty camp.

Coerced false confessions (AK's is more accurately a statement) are very rare according to statistics. In order to rule out this extraordinary circumstance, certain criteria have to be met:

1. Did the police follow protocol in order to obtain the confession or statement? -No

They require cops to record all interviews with suspects, to provide non-Italian speakers with a translator and to have a lawyer present. Knox was arrested just a few weeks after she had arrived in Italy and could not speak Italian.

Cops provided her with a police employee who interpreted - but they admitted she was "more investigator than translator".

Police also failed to record anything that took place during the questioning and neglected to bring in a lawyer. For these reasons the defence claim Knox's testimony is a "false confession forced out with intimidation and threats of spending the rest of her life in prison".

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...t-may-undermine-conviction.html#ixzz1RO6ND3h5

If the police had been able to provide videotape of the statement like they are required by law, or as a good faith measure depending on the interpretation of if she was suspect or witness at the time, then AK would not have been able to allege abuse which at this point cannot be discredited due to the inability of the police to adhere to Italian law.

a. Were there extenuating circumstances they did not follow protocol? -No

Mignini has given multiple reasons for the lack of taping AK's statement, the most recent being budgetary shortcomings.

2. Was the evidence gained credible? -No

AK's statement implicated an innocent man, was extremely vague, and was very non-committal.

3. Did it provide any knowledge only the perpetrator would have known? -No

I am unaware of any evidence that AK introduced in her interrogation that only the perpetrator would have known. If I am mistaken I would appreciate any correction.

4. Is AK the most likely suspect for killing MK? -No

Rudy Guede whose existence at the crime scene is unexplained by residence or relationship with a resident, and he is the only one that put himself at the time of the murder with knowledge of the crime scene.

5. Is the coerced false confession the only major incident of police and/or prosecutorial misconduct in this case? -No

The investigation leaked information to the media to destroy AK's character, much of it being false and misleading. They infamously declared "case closed" quickly after the AK's statement was collected and at least one innocent man was arrested. The police and prosecution made numerous claims to buttress the case that proofed to be false. Some of these claims were outright lies by the police force, such as the time of RS' call, and claims of massive cleanup by AK and RS, etc. The police destroyed computer drives and cell phone records of AK and RS that could have provided them with more evidence of their alibi. The forensics team did not follow protocols in the collection and testing of samples from the crime scene.

I think if three of these criteria are not met the claim of coerced false testimony or statement has to be considered credible. The fact that none of the criteria were met almost posits it as an absolute.

 

[mdana]

Yes there was glass found in MK's room. I think it is mentioned in the Motivations Report and is also seen on one of the videos. I am really going on memory here as I believe they at first thought glass caused some of her wounds which would make little sense to me. I don't recall that it was collected or tested but it may of been. I am of the thought process that RG tracked it into the room. I really need to look this up again. It is not something that has been discussed much

I can't remember where I read it, but there is an RG shoeprint in blood at the crime scene that has a space unlike the rest of his tread that indicates a piece of glass lodged in RG's shoe. The glass was found on RG's shoe when he was arrested which matched the imprint left at the crime scene. This piece of evidence does not fit the theory that AK and RS staged the break-in later, because he would not have had the glass in his shoe at the time. It is also not possible that they broke the glass after the murder as group, because RG would have made bloody shoeprints towards the window in order to get the glass lodged into his shoe.

 

[emyr]

I can't remember where I read it, but there is an RG shoeprint in blood at the crime scene that has a space unlike the rest of his tread that indicates a piece of glass lodged in RG's shoe. The glass was found on RG's shoe when he was arrested which matched the imprint left at the crime scene. This piece of evidence does not fit the theory that AK and RS staged the break-in later, because he would not have had the glass in his shoe at the time. It is also not possible that they broke the glass after the murder as group, because RG would have made bloody shoeprints towards the window in order to get the glass lodged into his shoe.

That can't be right, because they never found his shoes. (So there can't be glass in the shoes he was arrested in). I suppose it's possible that there was a print showing glass lodged in the shoe though.

 

[mdana]

That can't be right, because they never found his shoes. (So there can't be glass in the shoes he was arrested in). I suppose it's possible that there was a print showing glass lodged in the shoe though.

You are right. I don't know how they can prove it was glass though if he dumped the shoes in Germany. It could be gum, a sticky piece of paper, anything really. Unless there was some glass embedded into the floor with blood layered over it.

I will be on the lookout for the information I thought I read to see if it pops up again and see how it was explained, because it seemed like an important piece of evidence.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/09/12/amanda-knox-murder-trial-taking-aim-at-rudy-guede/

Thanks for the correction.

 

[emyr]

Okay, I was just writing that the defense thinks everything is contaminated, but the prosecution says everything is staged.

We're learning that contamination is definitely a probability. What of the staging?

is it really true that RS and AK somehow got up with RG to kill Mk at the spur of the moment for 300 euros then staged a rape, a breakin, and a clean up? And apparently one piece of glass on the floor? All this over 300 euros?

I mean, we know it can't be a sex game if the rape was staged, right? how does that work?

If we are believing that contamination happened, then I think you would have to guess that the vaginal swab results might be from contamination. Why was there DNA and not semen?

I'm sure that's going to be the least popular thought I've ever had.

 

[Nova]

If we are believing that contamination happened, then I think you would have to guess that the vaginal swab results might be from contamination. Why was there DNA and not semen?

I'm sure that's going to be the least popular thought I've ever had.

Well, there's still a stain on MK's pillow that ILE refuses to test...

 

[emyr]

Well, there's still a stain on MK's pillow that ILE refuses to test...

Yeah, what the hell is up with that? If it's her boyfriends, so what? If it's Rudy's, then more evidence! You'd think they'd want to test it to see if it was Sollecito's... at bare minimum.

 

[wasnt_me]

I can't remember where I read it, but there is an RG shoeprint in blood at the crime scene that has a space unlike the rest of his tread that indicates a piece of glass lodged in RG's shoe. The glass was found on RG's shoe when he was arrested which matched the imprint left at the crime scene. This piece of evidence does not fit the theory that AK and RS staged the break-in later, because he would not have had the glass in his shoe at the time. It is also not possible that they broke the glass after the murder as group, because RG would have made bloody shoeprints towards the window in order to get the glass lodged into his shoe.

I read the same thing, but I did not read that it was found in his shoe. I read that they anaylized the footprint, and the footprint track had the space in it that, but an actual identical shoe did not. I have to find where I read it, but as I was looking for that last night, I ran across the information about the piece of glass in MK's room.

 

[wasnt_me]

If we are believing that contamination happened, then I think you would have to guess that the vaginal swab results might be from contamination. Why was there DNA and not semen?

I'm sure that's going to be the least popular thought I've ever had.

Perhaps, but don't think RG's lawyers might not be having it, because they most likely are, and that's what I fear.

 

[Sonata]

Hi Everyone!

I'm a long-time lurker and decided today to come out of the woodwork.

I never heard about this extra piece of glass... sounds like it should be considered way more important than it seems to have been...

I was also thinking the other day, surely if you were going to stage a break in, you'd stage it from your own room? That would make more sense if you have any forward-thinking about DNA issues later on. Just a thought.

FYI I'm from London and can help with any Brit-perspective issues you guys might encounter.

 

[OldSteve]

Hi Everyone!

I'm a long-time lurker and decided today to come out of the woodwork.

I never heard about this extra piece of glass... sounds like it should be considered way more important than it seems to have been...

I was also thinking the other day, surely if you were going to stage a break in, you'd stage it from your own room? That would make more sense if you have any forward-thinking about DNA issues later on. Just a thought.

FYI I'm from London and can help with any Brit-perspective issues you guys might encounter.

:welcome: Sonata !

 

[Nova]

Hi Everyone!

I'm a long-time lurker and decided today to come out of the woodwork.

I never heard about this extra piece of glass... sounds like it should be considered way more important than it seems to have been...

I was also thinking the other day, surely if you were going to stage a break in, you'd stage it from your own room? That would make more sense if you have any forward-thinking about DNA issues later on. Just a thought.

FYI I'm from London and can help with any Brit-perspective issues you guys might encounter.

Welcome to WS, Sonata! I hope you won't be bothered if the discussions get a little heated here. The truth is we argue like old friends, but always make up afterwards.

I agree about the importance of the glass, but ILE's investigation and collection of forensic evidence in this case was shockingly bad.

 

[Allusonz]

I looked it up and I need to know where this glass came from because if MK fell on it, then OBVIOUSLY the window was broken before she died.



MOT page 136

I need to see the video, too, and I need for the prosecution to tell me where this glass came from. Otherwise, "Release the KRAKIN!"

It was one small piece of glass that in no way could of caused the defensive wounds on her. It is either in a police photo or video, maybe both shown in MK's room. I truly have not seen a picture of that in some time but there will be one around somewhere I am sure

 

[Sonata]

Welcome to WS, Sonata! I hope you won't be bothered if the discussions get a little heated here.

Haha, thanks. I've seen how it gets from my incessant lurking... It's just like a typical family Christmas. Or is that just my family? :waitasec:

 

[Allusonz]

Hi Everyone!

I'm a long-time lurker and decided today to come out of the woodwork.

I never heard about this extra piece of glass... sounds like it should be considered way more important than it seems to have been...

I was also thinking the other day, surely if you were going to stage a break in, you'd stage it from your own room? That would make more sense if you have any forward-thinking about DNA issues later on. Just a thought.

FYI I'm from London and can help with any Brit-perspective issues you guys might encounter.

:welcome:

 

[Allusonz]

I can't remember where I read it, but there is an RG shoeprint in blood at the crime scene that has a space unlike the rest of his tread that indicates a piece of glass lodged in RG's shoe. The glass was found on RG's shoe when he was arrested which matched the imprint left at the crime scene. This piece of evidence does not fit the theory that AK and RS staged the break-in later, because he would not have had the glass in his shoe at the time. It is also not possible that they broke the glass after the murder as group, because RG would have made bloody shoeprints towards the window in order to get the glass lodged into his shoe.

I believe you are mistaken in this information as RG disposed of his shoes

 

[Allusonz]

You are right. I don't know how they can prove it was glass though if he dumped the shoes in Germany. It could be gum, a sticky piece of paper, anything really. Unless there was some glass embedded into the floor with blood layered over it.

I will be on the lookout for the information I thought I read to see if it pops up again and see how it was explained, because it seemed like an important piece of evidence.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/09/12/amanda-knox-murder-trial-taking-aim-at-rudy-guede/

Thanks for the correction.

Sorry just saw this

 

[Allusonz]

Franks New Blog

http://perugiashock.com/2011/07/06/and-now-they-want-her-money/

 

[wasnt_me]

:up:

Hi Everyone!

I'm a long-time lurker and decided today to come out of the woodwork.

I never heard about this extra piece of glass... sounds like it should be considered way more important than it seems to have been...

I was also thinking the other day, surely if you were going to stage a break in, you'd stage it from your own room? That would make more sense if you have any forward-thinking about DNA issues later on. Just a thought.

FYI I'm from London and can help with any Brit-perspective issues you guys might encounter.

:wagon:

:wagon::welcome4::bananalama: