Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[wasnt_me]

Oh, I love this:

So Hellmann returned in the courtroom and decided not to admit that presumed proof that the controls were done.
Comodi insisted. And here, surprise: not only Helmann said definitely NO, but he pointed out that even if the documentation existed, even if it was really filed on October 2008, even if it was perfect, even if the negative/positive controls were done, that wouldn’t have ANY importance, since the contamination could have still occurred before!

From perugia shock.

Wow, Frank makes it sound like the Judge was defending the experts.

And, if Frank's right about this, we don't even have to discuss lab contamination, because Hellman doesn't SEEM to think that's where it happened.

 

[wasnt_me]

that would be.. Comodoni… (Comodi + Stefanoni) LOL!

Oh, And we'll pronounce it "comedy."

 

[miley]

Comodi waved a lacy fan at her face and smiled. :razz:

yeah, just like Scarlett when she's been backed into a corner - speechless.

SkewedView:
then again, Comodi & the Kercher's attorney both seem to be doing all that they can to alienate the Judges...weird...

I'm guessing Hellmann wasn't (at all) thrilled with Maresca today.

 

[Allusonz]

Actually - I'm comparing trial strategies - the use of experts, the evidence or lack thereof, the deliberate obfuscation of the evidence or lack of evidence. Nothing more.

Salem

I believe one very important factor has been missed here.

That is the fact the PLE have done things the way they want for so long that they consider what they do as normal instead of incompetent/corruption which you will not find in the LE of the cases so many have brought up. As well a judge in those cases ruled fairly instead of one that I cannot recall made any major ruling in the defenses favour.

There is simply no way you can compare any of the cases so many have tried to with this case simply for the reasons listed above

 

[wasnt_me]

yeah, just like Scarlett when she's been backed into a corner - speechless.



I'm guessing Hellmann wasn't (at all) thrilled with Maresca today.

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn..." it what is sounds like Hellman was saying.

Frank also says this today:

After all, the innocence of Amanda and Raffaele was already proven even at the first trial. It was demonstrated even at the first trial the eyewitnesses were wrong. It was known that DNA below the 50 RFU is not reliable. Or that The Knife was collected by cops. Or that the bra clasp was lost for six weeks and three inspections were run on it. Or that the luminol footprint was going towards Meredith’s room. Or that the footprint on the bathmat was not attributable to Raffaele. Or that the cops lied when they said Raffaele called the 112 after the police arrived. Etc.

Is that true, what's bolded? Because if it is, why are we even talking about these footprints? How are you going to have "Bloody" footprints headed "TOWARD" the crime scene?

I know one was facing MK's door as if someone stopped to look in or ask her a question or something. They could have continued into the room, but luminol didn't pick up the rest of the prints. Was Mk's room luminoled? Seems like it wouldn't have been just for the sheet amount of visible blood.

I seriously need someone to explain to me how "so called" bloody footprints head toward the bloody area instead of heading out of the bloody area.

 

[miley]

Oh, I love this:



From perugia shock.

Wow, Frank makes it sound like the Judge was defending the experts.

And, if Frank's right about this, we don't even have to discuss lab contamination, because Hellman doesn't SEEM to think that's where it happened.

i know, I'm amazed.. it's closer to Skewedview's magic show -- (tadaa)

here again, Frank:

So Hellman doesn’t care what happened in the lab! That’s a bombshell for those who know the trial: he seems to have understood that the contamination happened before.​

 

[Allusonz]

The machines sitting idle for 6 days does not matter. What matters is if clean MK-DNA-free machines were sitting idle for 6 days. What matters is PS did not perform a preliminary test to make sure said machines were DNA free.

1. do we even believe that the machines were idle, based on other lies the investigators have told?
2. what was the last thing tested on the machine?
3. Why can't they prove the knife's chain of custody?
4. How can we be sure they were clean? If we use the rest of the investigation of a barometer for following evidence collections and cleanliness rules, I can hint that we cannot trust that those machines were clean.


As I said before, it's a red herring, because the experts NEVER said they knew exactly where the contimination stemmed from. And as I said in my previous post, the prosecution cannot even tell you when the knife was bagged. A guy who came from AK's house picked it up. He alread had evidence from the cottage with him. If it had not been bagged, what do you think the likelihood is that he set it back there with the evidence from the cottage when he drove it to the station, where it then set on his desk with the same evidence for days?

Hmmmmmm they may of sat idle for 6 days but what was ran prior to these particular tests. As well remember that Stephanoni ran 2 separate quantitative tests on 2 separate days. I wonder which test results were used and which testing time the machine sat supposedly idle?

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes, and where are these "control" papers she tried to pass off really from?

How are you going to sit up there and say in court that Stephanoni didn't write down that she did control tests, just like doctors don't write down that they scrubbed up, but THEN you gonna turn around and pull control test paperwork out of your rear end?

That sounds fishy.

And I'm glad Hellman didn't even allow them to be entered. Hope a supreme court would agree with his reasoning.

 

[Allusonz]

Did the evidence crumble? That's not what I read.

Yes it crumbled and will continue to the reason I state this is that most of what has been said now was said by many for a number of years now. Thus it really was never there

 

[Allusonz]

i know, I'm amazed.. it's closer to Skewedview's magic show -- (tadaa)

here again, Frank:

So Hellman doesn’t care what happened in the lab! That’s a bombshell for those who know the trial: he seems to have understood that the contamination happened before.​

Frank deserves a RAISE!!! as well as alot of hugs, high fives etc etc etc

 

[Allusonz]

Actually - I'm comparing trial strategies - the use of experts, the evidence or lack thereof, the deliberate obfuscation of the evidence or lack of evidence. Nothing more.

Salem

You can't have a trial strategy when all the rulings are against you

 

[otto]

"Under repeated and insistent questioning, Vecchiotti acknowledged that DNA belonging to Kercher could have been on the blade of the knife the prosecution claims is the murder weapon. "It is a complete DNA profile, but it is not reliable. Yes, it could be Meredith's," Vecchiotti told the court. "
http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-prosector-blasts-dna-report/story?id=14195630&page=2

My understanding is that although the Rome experts said that there was no DNA on the blade for them to test, it's possible that DNA belonging to Meredith was on the blade; that the profile belonging to Meredith is a match to the DNA that was analysed by Dr Stefanoni. Additionally, the possibility of contamination of the blade in the lab is greatly reduced because the lab instruments were not used in the 6 days prior to the blade DNA tests, and the instruments were cleaned per protocols and standards as part of their standard procedures.

Playing it very loose with the bra clasp DNA, the Rome expert suggests that contamination at the scene could have happened because "anything is possible". That's just too loose for drawing conclusions that there was contamination:

"In addressing Sollecito's DNA on the victim's bra clasp, which the experts claimed could have gotten there through contamination by the police, Comodi asked the experts how they thought Sollecito's DNA could have been transferred onto to the clasp if no other DNA of his was found in the house. They replied that "anything is possible," and that the transfer of DNA has been the subject of much international debate."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-prosector-blasts-dna-report/story?id=14195630&page=2

"Per quanto riguarda il gancetto di reggiseno della vittima, poi, il pm ha ricordato come quest'ultimo è stato analizzato nei laboratori della polizia scientifica il 29 dicembre del 2007 e che, in precedenza, l'ultimo reperto con il dna di Sollecito esaminato negli stessi laboratori risaliva a 12 giorni prima."

http://www.grr.rai.it/dl/grr/notizie/ContentItem-66c6030c-d33d-4b27-9cb6-80a7f28df7d3.html

Translation: As for the victim's bra clasp, the prosecutor pointed out that it was analyzed in the forensic laboratories on 29 December 2007. The last evidence with the DNA of Sollecito that was examined in same lab was analysed twelve days earlier.

The conclusions in the report that "contamination cannot be ruled" out is falling apart.

Additionally, the court has ruled that the prosecution can call witnesses to further refute the report.

 

[Allusonz]

Not sure what the judge was getting at with that statement, but I'd used it against Stephanoni if I were the defense attorneys. I'd ask her about all her experience, then I'd ask, "And even with your experience, you can still make mistakes?"

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

sorry could not resist as I would hope that is exactly what happens when she does take the stand. Keep that popcorn machine handy

 

[otto]

Frank deserves a RAISE!!! as well as alot of hugs, high fives etc etc etc

We knew it was just a matter of time before the great Judge Hellman was thrown under the bus.

 

[Allusonz]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-prosector-blasts-dna-report/story?id=14195630&page=2

Sounds much like asking RS if whie they were asleep if AK woke up

 

[Allusonz]

that would be.. Comodoni… (Comodi + Stefanoni) LOL!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

OMG way to funny

 

[sherlockh]

It's what the report says that makes a difference. But you can't use DNA evidence against someone if there's a only a possibility it could be theirs. If someone on here says her DNA is "Absolutely not" on the knife it's no different than someone saying it "absolutely is" - both are just speculation. In the court's eyes, however, "could be, but it's not reliable and we can't tell if what was on there was her DNA because it was too small to retest" holds very little weight.

I agree. 'Could be' is not good enough. But it is important to have the independent experts to admit to this, because from there the prosecution needs to show the unlikeliness of contamination etc. They scored some major points on that issue as well, and again Stefanoni will have the final word on these issues which I think she is perfectly capable off.

 

[wasnt_me]

The defense in AK and RS had a strategy. They were just blocked and shut down at every single turn.

1. Alibis--whoopsie! someone fried your computers. Sorry.
2. Break in was real. experienced, rock-throwing thief etc, etc, etc.--Oh, no, it's staged because RF saw glass on top of her laptop.
3. TOD. professionally figured out. Oh, no, because our park-resident drug addict saw you roaming the streets for 3 hours, and the half deaf woman heard a scream. Oh, and she ate a mushroom. Dont try to tell us she didn't.
4. MK's irregular cell phone calls. No, oh that? she was just playing with her phone.
5. bathmat print measured wrong and can't really be measured at all. Oh, yeah? watch us do it. There. It's yours. now what?
6. No DNA at the crime scene. What about this rusty, old bra clasp?
7. Footprints in the hall unrelated to the crime. (tucks the TMB tests under her bra) Well, luminal means blood and they're your prints, too. Prove they aren't.
8. No motive. We say, drugs, sex, and rock and roll. Isn't that the American way? always leads to murder.

 

[Allusonz]

No I meant RS' leaking kitchen sink and the whole mop movements are constantly used as damning evidence . I meant it literally.

Well we can look at the bright side of this. The mop was not considered the murder weapon or a motive :giggle:

 

[wasnt_me]

I agree. 'Could be' is not good enough. But it is important to have the independent experts to admit to this, because from there the prosecution needs to show the unlikeliness of contamination etc. They scored some major points on that issue as well, and again Stefanoni will have the final word on these issues which I think she is perfectly capable off.

If what Frank wrote today is really what the atmosphere of the court was like, then I think Hellman will have the last word, and it appears that he thinks the knife was contaminated.