Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[Nova]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/30/amanda-knox-appeal-prosecution-pokes-holes-in-forensic-testimony.html

So, in other words, Hellman gave ILE (from both Perugia and Rome) another month to get their stories straight?

 

[SMK]

So, in other words, Hellman gave ILE (from both Perugia and Rome) another month to get their stories straight?

It would seem so.

 

[Nova]

It would seem so.

Well, Skewed View seems to see the glass as half-full and she's been right many times before. Maybe we should put our money on her...

 

[SMK]

Well, Skewed View seems to see the glass as half-full and she's been right many times before. Maybe we should put our money on her...

Good point! (Skewed View is a she??)

 

[miley]

Carabinieri and Postal Police are two of the eight Italian police forces involved in the investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher. The Carabinieri are regional, or territorial, police; military corps with police duties. It's not that the Carabinieri are Perugia police officers, but rather that they are governed by a Chief of Staff in Rome to oversee provinces and regions in the country. The Carabinieri have been the primary investigators in the murder and, being that they are not specifically Perugia police, I think it is probably more accurate to describe them as an Italian police force rather than a Perugia police force.

not so, the Carabinieri never took lead --

 

[SkewedView]

Good point! (Skewed View is a she??)

Nope, very much a he. Either that, or my wife is in for a surprise on the next episode of Jerry Springer! :crazy: Don't worry, no offense is taken.

I'd say I'm in more of a 'it's just a glass of water, drink it!' mode - there is plenty of opportunity for this to backfire on either side now...no victory dances for anybody til the leaves are falling, I'd say.

 

[wasnt_me]

I thought it was always known that the footprint outside MK's door was going towards it and not away from it.

If it is a bloody footprint, it is unlikely to be from stepping in blood from the room. It is most likely to come from running water over the foot in the bathroom.

Might have always been known, but not by me. I haven't seen any pictures of those photos in context to the hallways and doors. And I don't recall it being brought up in these threads since I've been here. If it's widely known, then I'm even MORE confused at how guilters push it as evidence against AK and RS. Barefoot prints IN MK'S blood cannot be facing the murder scene. The only way that's possible is if MK's blood floated out of the room to another location where two people could dip their feet in it and then head toward her room. The luminol prints should have been dumped ages ago with the nonexistent bleach receipts. Why are people still using them to indicate guilt?

 

[SMK]

Nope, very much a he. Either that, or my wife is in for a surprise on the next episode of Jerry Springer! :crazy: Don't worry, no offense is taken.

I'd say I'm in more of a 'it's just a glass of water, drink it!' mode - there is plenty of opportunity for this to backfire on either side now...no victory dances for anybody til the leaves are falling, I'd say.

Somehow, I knew your "voice" was male....:waitasec:..no, no victory dances, someone must stop Amanda and her waltzing .........

 

[wasnt_me]

Do you reserve the word "corruption" for cases where a member of LE enriches himself though unethical conduct? Because the behavior you list all fits my definition of corruption.

I think skewedview is trying to avoid an italian slander suit!:great:

 

[wasnt_me]

I see that the facts are not all that important in this article - the Judge had originally denied the prosecution's request, but was forced to give in to the request of the Kercher's attorney, as the civil paintifs operate under different rules from the prosecution. From many accounts, the Judge was not happy with the delays that this causes.

Personally, I'm glad that the Kerchers demanded this, as this gives the defense an opportunity to point blank demand an explanation for why Steffanoni etc blatantly lied on the stand (this was proven in undeniable fashion, and I'm stumped as to how they can spin this away, except perhaps with more lies and word games). Of course, the defense attorneys aren't all that good at cross examination, so I'm not counting on them being effective.

If the mood I'm getting about hellman is correct, I have a feeling he'll ask probbing questions himself.

 

[SMK]

Amanda Knox: One Step Back, Two Steps Forward to Freedom

. . . After hearing the testimony given by Conti and Vecchiotti, Judge Hellmann moved to bring the trial to a swift close. He would allow the prosecution to question Conti and Vecchiotti on July 30, with no additional witnesses to be heard from either side. He also planned on cutting the summer break short so that closing arguments could begin on August 27.

The July 30 hearing was a long day for all involved as Prosecutor Comodi riffled questions at Conti and Vecchiotti doing everything she could to discredit their analysis. At the end of the day, the independent report stood strong, as the actions of Stefanoni are indefensible. There was nothing Comodi could say to hide the fact that Sefanoni’s work did not meet the standards of any civilized nation on earth.

Comodi gained no ground with her questioning but had one more trick up her sleeve. One of Stefanoni’s many egregious errors was her failure to conduct negative control tests to rule out contamination. Comodi would shock the court by boldly presenting documentation showing that Stefanoni did run those tests after all! Conti and Vecchiotti were wrong! Only one problem, Comodi presented the court with what appeared to be fraudulent documents. The pages were poor quality photo copies with codes that did not match the machine used to conduct the tests. When confronted, Comodi claimed that the defense must have mis-located the files during the first trial. The court took a 30 minute recess to try and locate any original documents which turned out to be nonexistent. Comodi’s ploy backfired on the prosecution, irritating the judge, and once again highlighted the fact that they will stop at nothing to keep two innocent people in prison.

Before the July 25 hearing began, it appeared that everything was set for closing arguments to begin August 27. That would change at the beginning of the hearing when the prosecution addressed the court asking for further witness testimony. Civil attorney Francesco Maresca stood up in court shouting out numerous law codes that sent the discussion into the judge's chambers. When the issues were resolved, the prosecution’s request was granted and the next court hearing had been moved to September 5. I am told that Hellmann was not happy with the extended timeframe but was bound by law to allow the additional questioning. . . .

http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Amanda-Knox-One-Step-Back-Two-Steps-Forward-to-Fre/2940537

 

[wasnt_me]

not so, the Carabinieri never took lead --

I can't really say who took the lead as I have just lumped them all together, but I DO KNOW who fried the computers--the postal police.

 

[wasnt_me]

http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Amanda-Knox-One-Step-Back-Two-Steps-Forward-to-Fre/2940537

Okay, he can afford to be a little less biased at this point, but reading his article reminded me. Don't part of the proceeds of his book go to the defense? I was thinking about how people say the Knox family has paid for this huge PR machine. Well, it seems in some cases, the PR machine is paying them! How's that for ironic.

 

[wasnt_me]

The biggest problem i see for Stephanoni is that, if others question her correctly, she is really up against herself, and one of herselves is going to lose.

I hope they dig from the court record all of her testimony from the first trial and from RG's trial and point out every lie or contradiction from those statements that she makes at the next court date. Hope we see frame by frame the videos again and I want them to ask her "What are you doing right here?" and "When did you change your gloves in this sequence?" and "Why is your hair coming out of your hazmatt suit?" and "How many samples did you just take with that one swab?" and "Given all this mistakes we're seeing, why must we believe you over the neutral experts who did not collect the samples themselves?"

And I also want them to ask her this: "What scientifc method was used to determine that AK was guilty upon the wiggle of her hips? Was it centrifugal force? Newton's law of motion? MK2=AK sq? What?" Oh, and also, "Do you know who RS is? Have you even heard of him? he's sitting over there. He's been in jail, too, four years. oh you do know him? Good, cause everyone else seems to forget he's even here. Mind if he just slips on out the side door, since it's really AK you're trying to railroad?"

 

[Allusonz]

Allusionz, the murder weapon was not a mop, but the realization that there was a murder should have come before hauling a mop through Perugia and brunch.

Snipped for space and empasis

I would ask that my post be interpreted correctly

This was my post. Please note the NOT

Well we can look at the bright side of this. The mop was not considered the murder weapon or a motive

 

[Allusonz]

Corruption, I'd have to disagree with. What I see is arrogance and apathy, a condition that tends to gradually appear in local Justice Systems (top to bottom) when there is not enough of a turnover in the makeup of the regional LEAs/prosecutors/justices. Even now, I'm doubtful that there has been any true malevelance involved in all of this.

Think more like, they've reached a point in their collective, unwritten policies that results are more important than ethics (and when you think about dealing with a fifty percent turnover rate on appeal, you can see how one would reach that point). Is that wrong? Sure. But corrupt, I'm not sure that I'd describe this type of deteriorating group ethics that way.

After all, testa-lying, coercion and fudging of procedures/results is a common enough affliction globally that various Law Journals, Forensics Societies and Accrediting Agencies are calling it a brewing global human rights crisis, so it's not like this is something unique to Perugia.

All JMO, of course.

Honestly, I believe that this was the point I was at for some time without realizing it.

After such events that wasntme posted, as well as what I truly found to be incredulous and very deep rooted problems in the report of the DNA experts I will admit I was shocked.

After seeing the blazen attempt to admit control evidence by Commodi, which I will point out had the wrong numbers I was stunned to say the least. Contempt was shown to a Court and to me that is unethical.

What bothers me even more is I can just about guarantee that the controls (if indeed there were controls) they attempted to admit probably were NOT amplified.

 

[Allusonz]

I see that the facts are not all that important in this article - the Judge had originally denied the prosecution's request, but was forced to give in to the request of the Kercher's attorney, as the civil paintifs operate under different rules from the prosecution. From many accounts, the Judge was not happy with the delays that this causes.

Personally, I'm glad that the Kerchers demanded this, as this gives the defense an opportunity to point blank demand an explanation for why Steffanoni etc blatantly lied on the stand (this was proven in undeniable fashion, and I'm stumped as to how they can spin this away, except perhaps with more lies and word games). Of course, the defense attorneys aren't all that good at cross examination, so I'm not counting on them being effective.

I must agree here. I believe that Hellmann is very aware of what they are attempting/might attempt to do. He is not happy whatsoever. The shocker to me is that the judge did not allow them to get away with it. If this had of been the first trial they would indeed of gotten away with it.

As you state the defense attorneys are not good on cross. They are getting pro bono help though now from some that are so I do hope they are well prepared

 

[Allusonz]

Nope, very much a he. Either that, or my wife is in for a surprise on the next episode of Jerry Springer! :crazy: Don't worry, no offense is taken.

I'd say I'm in more of a 'it's just a glass of water, drink it!' mode - there is plenty of opportunity for this to backfire on either side now...no victory dances for anybody til the leaves are falling, I'd say.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

I have extra rubber bottles of wine :innocent:

 

[Allusonz]

I can't really say who took the lead as I have just lumped them all together, but I DO KNOW who fried the computers--the postal police.

Just to set the record straight. I do NOT believe that every PLE individual in my eyes are corrupt. Many are trying to make a living and doing what they are told. I do believe additional training would be in order for them. I believe that there is a group that has never been challenged for a very long time. Now they are with a worldwide audience watching, yet they are of the mindset that they can get away with whatever they so choose to do. They simply don't seem to get it.

Like SV stated with the FBI, they needed to clean house, and usually when you clean house you must clean at the top. There must also be controls put in places. Checks and balances are critical. There must be a separation of LE/prosecutors/judges etc.

There is another case very similiar happening currently in Italy in which it appears they are attempting to do the same thing.

My question is when does someone stand up to them? When is enough enough? At some point in time it has to stop.

This current judge is from the North of Italy and I have to hope that he will stand up to them

 

[Allusonz]

If the mood I'm getting about hellman is correct, I have a feeling he'll ask probbing questions himself.

I believe he will be as well. I am getting the impression that he has done his homework and does not want to be made to look stupid.

Yup the Kercher attorney used a loophole. Again though I don't believe the end result will be quite what he is hoping for. I will state that with caution though as I always try to do in this case