Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[Allusonz]

Only to dodge the trolls and supporters that will try (in vain) to argue against it.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[dgfred]

There is a comment section too if you feel 'froggy'.

 

[otto]

Amanda Knox: Problems Practicing U.S. Law in Italy

"Simply put, in the United States we have an adversarial court system in which prosecution and defense are expected to face off and play by the rules of court and the law. In Italy, an inquisitorial court system is in place (as is true throughout most of Europe). In an inquisitorial system, where the judicial mission is to seek truth, the judge (or judges) jointly occupies the positions of magistrate and chief investigator. But, in seeking the truth, the defendant is expected to cooperate with the investigative trial process. And that puts Amanda Knox in a rather awkward position as she faces charges of slander against the Italian police, after earlier falsely accusing an acquaintance of murdering roommate Meredith Kercher."

 

[otto]

One would hope so, but this particular legal blogger seems to be posing the idea that Italy is vastly different in its approach: (same link as my prior post)



another quote from same piece: revealing that Knox would fare better in Orlando than Perugia:

It is vastly different from the US system, isn't it? Per the article, the inquisitorial court is in place throughout most of Europe. The reason Knox would fare better in Orlando is because lying to police in Orlando doesn't seem to be a problem (obvious comparison to Anthony), whereas lying to police in Europe discredits the suspect while at the same time labeling them as uncooperative in the quest for truth.

 

[Nova]

Interesting how much the case has changed:

http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/about16933.html

Investigators originally thought the assailant(s) had escaped through a broken window in Kercher's room?! This is the first I've heard that one MK's windows may have been broken. Anybody know anything about this?

 

[SkewedView]

I'm having trouble finding my favorite link for the details on the Italian Justice System, but here's another:

http://www.csm.it/documenti pdf/sistema giudiziario italiano/inglese.pdf

Civil and criminal proceedings are regulated by two separate series of procedural rules:
the code of civil procedure and the code of criminal procedure.
Civil procedure was changed in part by a law of 1990 (n. 353 of 26th November), entered into force on 30th April 1995, for the purposes of expediting the settlement of civil cases and making them more effective.

Instead, the code of criminal procedure was completely amended in 1988 by switching from an inquisitorial-type system to a basically adversarial system, based, amongst other principles, on a) the equality of the prosecution and the defence and b) the creation of evidence before the judge during the trial (see Law no. 81 of 16th February 1987, enabling the issue of the new code of criminal procedure). After the passing of numerous laws, which in the course of time mitigated against the adversarial nature of the procedure in the name of protecting society from organised crime, the recent amendment of article 111 of the constitution, implemented by constitutional law n. 2 of 23rd November 2000, has expressly sanctioned the basic adversarial principle of the creation of evidence during the trial in the presence of both parties and protected the defendant’s absolute right to evidence.

The reformed Article 111 of the constitution concerns every and each trial, both civil, criminal, administrative and accounting, in the part in which the rule of a fair trial is expressly safeguarded. Under said rule, each and every trial must be carried out in the presence of both parties, in conditions of equality, before an impartial judge with a third-party status and must be of reasonable duration.

The right to a reasonable duration of the trial has recently been expressly recognised by Law n. 89 of 24th March 2001, which grants the parties the right to ask the State for fair pecuniary compensation, in the event that the said right is breached.

Bolds by me.

OMG, bloggers that don't do their research! I'm shocked, shocked I say! :crazy:

Seriously though, many older judges do still operate under the Inquisitorial mindset, the laws be damned, and that can have a huge impact on how a trial proceeds.

The last bit that I quoted is of great interest to me, as I have to wonder just what the Italian System considers to be a 'reasonable duration of trial'.

 

[wasnt_me]

Just to set the record straight. I do NOT believe that every PLE individual in my eyes are corrupt. Many are trying to make a living and doing what they are told. I do believe additional training would be in order for them. I believe that there is a group that has never been challenged for a very long time. Now they are with a worldwide audience watching, yet they are of the mindset that they can get away with whatever they so choose to do. They simply don't seem to get it.

Like SV stated with the FBI, they needed to clean house, and usually when you clean house you must clean at the top. There must also be controls put in places. Checks and balances are critical. There must be a separation of LE/prosecutors/judges etc.

There is another case very similiar happening currently in Italy in which it appears they are attempting to do the same thing.

My question is when does someone stand up to them? When is enough enough? At some point in time it has to stop.

This current judge is from the North of Italy and I have to hope that he will stand up to them

I agree. someone had said the postal police didn't participate or lead the investigation. I was just pointing out that they did participate by frying the computers. They also did the cell phone "evidence."

 

[wasnt_me]

I believe he will be as well. I am getting the impression that he has done his homework and does not want to be made to look stupid.

Yup the Kercher attorney used a loophole. Again though I don't believe the end result will be quite what he is hoping for. I will state that with caution though as I always try to do in this case

I really do not know what is up with him. I don't understand why he is leading the Kercher's down the prosecution path. I can get it before all this came out, but once it's plain as the nose on your face that this evidence is tainted, he should be advising the Kerchers of the possibility that AK and RS are innocent and RG acted alone, rather than keeping them on this path with the prosecution. Because the ones who will be hurt by an accquital will be the Kerchers if they haven't been properly prepared for the possibility that maybe AK and RS didn't really do it.

Isn't that the lawyers job? I didn't realize it was his job to be just one more prosecution attorney. I think that's unfair, and the court shouldn't even allow him to act in that capacity. Anything civil ought to be separate from the criminal, and settled after the criminal has been settled.

 

[wasnt_me]

Probably like me waiting for this all to be over so we can listen to this fabulous DVD you are making

Well, I got a song for Stephanoni.

Stephanoni, you can:
"Blame it on the rain...
cause the rain don't mind.
And the rain don't care.
You've got to blame it on something!
blame it on the rain, yeah yeah!
Blame it on the stars, they shined the night.
Whatever you do, don't put the blame on you!
Just blame it on the rain! yeah yeah!"

--Milli Vanilli.

 

[Nova]

It is vastly different from the US system, isn't it? Per the article, the inquisitorial court is in place throughout most of Europe. The reason Knox would fare better in Orlando is because lying to police in Orlando doesn't seem to be a problem (obvious comparison to Anthony), whereas lying to police in Europe discredits the suspect while at the same time labeling them as uncooperative in the quest for truth.

Casey Anthony was convicted of lying to police (as opposed to Amanda Knox, who was only convicted of slander), so, yes, lying to police is a problem in the U.S. system.

Why the Anthony jury decided to overlook her lies remains a mystery. Most American juries would not be so generous.

 

[Nova]

I'm having trouble finding my favorite link for the details on the Italian Justice System, but here's another:

http://www.csm.it/documenti pdf/sistema giudiziario italiano/inglese.pdf



Bolds by me.

OMG, bloggers that don't do their research! I'm shocked, shocked I say! :crazy:

Seriously though, many older judges do still operate under the Inquisitorial mindset, the laws be damned, and that can have a huge impact on how a trial proceeds.

The last bit that I quoted is of great interest to me, as I have to wonder just what the Italian System considers to be a 'reasonable duration of trial'.

Thank you for finding that. I read one account of the modern changes in the ILE system that mentioned a six-year limit for all trials and appeals. I don't know whether the clock starts when defendants are confined or not until they are formally charged; and I'm not sure that is the "reasonable duration" to which your link refers.

 

[SkewedView]

I really do not know who is up with him. I don't understand why he is leading the Kercher's down the prosecution path. I can get it before all this came out, but once it's plain as the nose on your face that this evidence is tainted, he should be advising the Kerchers of the possibility that AK and RS are innocent and RG acted alone, rather than keeping them on this path with the prosecution. Because the ones who will be hurt by an accquital will be the Kerchers if they haven't been properly prepared for the possibility that maybe AK and RS didn't really do it.

Isn't that the lawyers job? I didn't realize it was his job to be just one more prosecution attorney. I think that's unfair, and the court shouldn't even allow him to act in that capacity. Anything civil ought to be separate from the criminal, and settled after the criminal has been settled.

The problem is that the Kercher's lawyer stands to lose his share of two million euros if AK & RS are acquitted - remember the terms of the civil trial verdict - one million from each defendant found guilty in the criminal trial (after all appeals, this is the Italian System). It's standard for lawyers in such cases to take a hefty chunk of anything their clients get, so that's one heck of a powerful motivator for him to cheer lead the prosecution no matter what.

That aside, I can tell you from experience, that when you entrust LE and prosecutors with finding justice for a loved one, you need to believe, for the sake of your own sanity, that they are not going to dirty your loved one's name by going after an innocent. To have to face it if that trust is betrayed, knowingly or mistakenly...words cannot describe the agony, the betrayal and the guilt...

 

[otto]

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

Here's a powerpoint presentation for your viewing pleasure. Totality of evidence.

Thanks for the link. It's well worth the time it takes to view the slide show.

 

[SMK]

I'm having trouble finding my favorite link for the details on the Italian Justice System, but here's another:

http://www.csm.it/documenti pdf/sistema giudiziario italiano/inglese.pdf



Bolds by me.

OMG, bloggers that don't do their research! I'm shocked, shocked I say! :crazy:

Seriously though, many older judges do still operate under the Inquisitorial mindset, the laws be damned, and that can have a huge impact on how a trial proceeds.

The last bit that I quoted is of great interest to me, as I have to wonder just what the Italian System considers to be a 'reasonable duration of trial'.

Thank you. So this blogger was wrong in thinking Italy still remained under the inquisitorial system. :razz:

 

[otto]

I really do not know what is up with him. I don't understand why he is leading the Kercher's down the prosecution path. I can get it before all this came out, but once it's plain as the nose on your face that this evidence is tainted, he should be advising the Kerchers of the possibility that AK and RS are innocent and RG acted alone, rather than keeping them on this path with the prosecution. Because the ones who will be hurt by an accquital will be the Kerchers if they haven't been properly prepared for the possibility that maybe AK and RS didn't really do it.

Isn't that the lawyers job? I didn't realize it was his job to be just one more prosecution attorney. I think that's unfair, and the court shouldn't even allow him to act in that capacity. Anything civil ought to be separate from the criminal, and settled after the criminal has been settled.

I'm wondering if my eyes are playing tricks on me ... are you saying that it's unfair that Meredith Kercher's lawyer act in the capacity of ensuring that her rights are observed?

 

[otto]

The problem is that the Kercher's lawyer stands to lose his share of two million euros if AK & RS are acquitted - remember the terms of the civil trial verdict - one million from each defendant found guilty in the criminal trial (after all appeals, this is the Italian System). It's standard for lawyers in such cases to take a hefty chunk of anything their clients get, so that's one heck of a powerful motivator for him to cheer lead the prosecution no matter what.

That aside, I can tell you from experience, that when you entrust LE and prosecutors with finding justice for a loved one, you need to believe, for the sake of your own sanity, that they are not going to dirty your loved one's name by going after an innocent. To have to face it if that trust is betrayed, knowingly or mistakenly...words cannot describe the agony, the betrayal and the guilt...

So ... Meredith's lawyer is in the courtroom not to ensure that her rights are observed, but because he's a greedy money hungry lawyer?

 

[SMK]

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

Here's a powerpoint presentation for your viewing pleasure. Totality of evidence.

Unbelievably intricate and detailed presentation. thanks for posting.

 

[Nova]

The problem is that the Kercher's lawyer stands to lose his share of two million euros if AK & RS are acquitted - remember the terms of the civil trial verdict - one million from each defendant found guilty in the criminal trial (after all appeals, this is the Italian System). It's standard for lawyers in such cases to take a hefty chunk of anything their clients get, so that's one heck of a powerful motivator for him to cheer lead the prosecution no matter what.

That aside, I can tell you from experience, that when you entrust LE and prosecutors with finding justice for a loved one, you need to believe, for the sake of your own sanity, that they are not going to dirty your loved one's name by going after an innocent. To have to face it if that trust is betrayed, knowingly or mistakenly...words cannot describe the agony, the betrayal and the guilt...

I don't know what you've been through, my friend, and it is none of my business.

But just from the vague references you occasionally share with us, I am so very sorry you had to endure your encounter with the judicial system.

 

[Nova]

I'm wondering if my eyes are playing tricks on me ... are you saying that it's unfair that Meredith Kercher's lawyer act in the capacity of ensuring that her rights are observed?

No, what he pointed out is that the Kerchers' lawyer only collects large fees if the defendants are convicted. That means his vested interest is not in the truth, but in securing convictions, regardless of the guilt or innocence of those charged.

This is an insane system. And not the fault of the Kerchers' lawyer personally. He may genuinely believe AK and RS are guilty, just as you do. But we will never know whether his ability to collect large fees influenced that belief; he may not even know himself.

 

[Nova]

Unbelievably intricate and detailed presentation. thanks for posting.

It is quite detailed and well-done, and also contains all the misinformation we've come to expect from the pro-guilt side.