Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[Allusonz]

What do you mean escalated?

They arrested the person AK accused of committing the murder.
They continued to process the crime scene and phone/computer evidence.
They investigated Patrick for 2 weeks, in which AK did not PLAINLY take back her accusation.
When evidence was presented to exonerate Patrick, he was released.
When prints were found of RG, he was tracked to Germany.
His friend was asked to get him to talk over Skype and hopefully turn himself in.
RG was captured returning on a train.
They continued to investigate all three, and process the crime scene.

I see normal escalation.

Yes they did continue to process the crime scene, making many mistakes and found nothing tying them to the crime

PLE were the ones focused on PL and they should of never arrested him based on the fact of her statements as she did not believe them to be true

 

[Allusonz]

I will grant you one thing, Fred.
IF Hellman and the jury decide to uphold the convictions, at this point I will begin to supsect that Knox and Sollecito were in fact involved.

I do not think this should have to go to the Supreme court of Italy.

I will be done with Knox and Sollecito should this occur. I will believe that we may have been misled, that there is something in the case which would make an independent man like Hellman, and a new jury, believe they were culpable.

Conversely, if the convictions are overturned, I will see that we who believed the convictions were wrongful were correct, and that Hellman saw what we saw. But I am done with the case if it has to go to the high court.

I will be very surprised if this is overturned at this level but I always hope. It is more apt to be overturned at the SC level

 

[SMK]

I will be very surprised if this is overturned at this level but I always hope. It is more apt to be overturned at the SC level

Really? Why? You mean i should NOT be done with them if Hellman upholds? :waitasec:

So this guy is wrong?

So, with the appeals case going so well for Amanda and Raffaele, why are these people still at it. One reason- and the most important reason- is that they are simply trying to confuse people who are new to the case by spouting misinformation and outright lies. In the end however, it won't matter. The judge in this case is after the truth and Judge Hellmann is just the man to overturn a wrongful conviction. He has shown from the start that he was after the truth by going after the two main reasons why Amanda Knox was convicted in the first place- the so-called eye witness and the DNA 'evidence', and both have taking a beating. The prosecution's case has completely fallen apart during this appeal and it just goes to show that Amanda Knox should never have been found guilty in the first place.

Amanda Knox will win her appeal Why? Because there is nothing to convict her. There is not, and never was a motive. There is nothing that ties her to the scene of the murder- no eye-witness, no DNA, no murder weapon- nothing. There is not even the despicable tabloids against her which had helped to convict her through 'character assassination' before the original trial. I can not help but admire this woman. She is not perfect- who is, but she has shown she can take a punch and has never lost her temper in all of this- despite all the injustice and humiliation she was forced to swallow. In a couple months it will all be over and she will at last be allowed to go free. After almost 4 years in prison- it's sad of course, but better late than never.

http://amandaknoxappealforum.blogspot.com/

 

[Allusonz]

What about meeting him at the basketball court?

What about letting him into the cottage?

What about doing nothing why your supposed friend was murdered?

What about not calling the police or an ambulance?

What about not helping Meredith after she was stabbed/cut?

I don't understand your problem with involvement whether in the next room or not :waitasec: .

There is no proof they met in the baseball courts instead there is proof they were on a computer.

There is no proof he was let into the cottage. In fact there is no proof presented by the prosecution that the break-in was not staged.

If you are not there how can you call an ambulance or police or help a victim

Since she was asked to "imagine" something that is not proof and is not backed up by the TOD

I find it ironic that no one gives the TOD the time of day. The fact remains the experts testified that she was would of died within 2-3 hours of the start of the meal as the duodenum was empty

There is no evidence except some very scared and naive kids. I can't even find all these lies some speak of as they simply don't exist.

You have the media which played a huge role and were fed misinformation not by a PR machine as so many have tried to state but by PLE specifically MN

 

[Allusonz]

Really? Why? You mean i should NOT be done with them if Hellman upholds? :waitasec:

It is how it works in Italy. Many there said before the trial started that they would be found guilty not based on the evidence in the first trial.

I would hope that they are aquitted on this appeal but it appears from my research most are aquitted at the SC level. That is the level that Hellmann did overturn the one conviction

 

[Allusonz]

I think they did not like Sollectio, viewed him as a creepy rich kid, and his connection to Knox did not help matters. I would agree that Knox and Sollecito helped the police to become more suspicious, but that does not mean it ought to have escalated in the manner it did.

The way it has been explained to me from many that I know that have studied in Perugia that it is not what you know but whom you know.

 

[SMK]

It is how it works in Italy. Many there said before the trial started that they would be found guilty not based on the evidence in the first trial.

I would hope that they are aquitted on this appeal but it appears from my research most are aquitted at the SC level. That is the level that Hellmann did overturn the one conviction

THANKS I had added this quote to my remarks above, same link, but perhaps this guy is wrong, then:

So, with the appeals case going so well for Amanda and Raffaele, why are these people still at it. One reason- and the most important reason- is that they are simply trying to confuse people who are new to the case by spouting misinformation and outright lies. In the end however, it won't matter. The judge in this case is after the truth and Judge Hellmann is just the man to overturn a wrongful conviction. He has shown from the start that he was after the truth by going after the two main reasons why Amanda Knox was convicted in the first place- the so-called eye witness and the DNA 'evidence', and both have taking a beating. The prosecution's case has completely fallen apart during this appeal and it just goes to show that Amanda Knox should never have been found guilty in the first place.

Amanda Knox will win her appeal Why? Because there is nothing to convict her. There is not, and never was a motive. There is nothing that ties her to the scene of the murder- no eye-witness, no DNA, no murder weapon- nothing. There is not even the despicable tabloids against her which had helped to convict her through 'character assassination' before the original trial. I can not help but admire this woman. She is not perfect- who is, but she has shown she can take a punch and has never lost her temper in all of this- despite all the injustice and humiliation she was forced to swallow. In a couple months it will all be over and she will at last be allowed to go free. After almost 4 years in prison- it's sad of course, but better late than never.

 

[Allusonz]

The photos left the impression that the police had been so sloppy that the fact that their single piece of evidence against Raffaele had been extracted six weeks after the photos were taken made it dubious. Assistant Prosecutor Manuela Comodi rose and interjected that the mess in Meredith’s bedroom was nothing more than "Proof of good police work.”

Burleigh, Nina (2011-08-02). The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (Kindle Location 4583). Broadway. Kindle Edition.

Imagine they tossed all this stuff together. Any transfer of any DNA from investigators etc could of transferred easily as has been shown in the experts report but a number of things were again taken out of this pile and tested in the December run including the coat she was wearing etc

I find that incompetent period

 

[Allusonz]

THANKS I had added this quote to my remarks above, same link, but perhaps this guy is wrong, then:

There is alot of truth in those quotes SMK. What the pro-guilt now are trying to do is discredit everything they can to create confusion. Will it work? I don't know. I believe Hellmann is onto their game but he himself is under extreme pressure from within his own ranks

 

[Allusonz]

@Fred:

Why did not Mignini simply say that Knox had done something really irresponsible, by allowing Guede in, and being too stoned to help MK when Guede attacked her? The charge would have been negligent reckless involuntary manslaughter. Why did he have to say, 'It was Amanda who used the kinfe" to the jury ? Why???

He did though in his CNN interview change that scenerio to one of her in the kitchen. Does that not strike anyone as very odd coming from a prosecutor? That is a totally different circumstance and I don't believe he has done himself any favours in doing so

 

[dgfred]

@Fred:

Why did not Mignini simply say that Knox had done something really irresponsible, by allowing Guede in, and being too stoned to help MK when Guede attacked her? The charge would have been negligent reckless involuntary manslaughter. Why did he have to say, 'It was Amanda who used the kinfe" to the jury ? Why???

Being involved by letting him in brings the charge to murder regardless of participating.

I believe Mignini thought/thinks she actually did wield the knife.

 

[Allusonz]

I think that the bra clasp being collected and used against Sollecito after a 6 week span is highly suspicious.
I also think the mess they left is not only unprofessional, but it was disrespectful to the victim. If I were Meredith's family, I would not like to see her possessions in such disarray. There must be a neater way of doing things. Her shoes, her hot water bottle, it just looks sad the way they are dumped in a dung heap, as it were.

For example, compare this crime scene photo of JonBenet Ramsey's bedroom to Meredith's bedroom above:

Truly what are the odds of touching the clasp but finding no other DNA of RS's in that room? It is simply not the item most likely to be touched

 

[SMK]

He did though in his CNN interview change that scenerio to one of her in the kitchen. Does that not strike anyone as very odd coming from a prosecutor? That is a totally different circumstance and I don't believe he has done himself any favours in doing so

Yes, this kind of got me angry at Mignini. There is a huge difference from screaming with your hands over your ears in the kitchen, which would be negligence, or culpable involuntary reckless manslaughter, and wielding the knife, which would make one a convicted sex murderer. He did not get the charge right, even by his own admission, and told a jury that Knox made the fatal wound. Awful.

 

[Allusonz]

Being involved by letting him in brings the charge to murder regardless of participating.

I believe Mignini thought/thinks she actually did wield the knife.

Yes there is simply no proof of this. NONE. The experts pointed out over 50 errors that were made does that not give you pause? We are not talking little ones either. We are talking perjury, over-riding machines, improper ventilation, entry procedures.

We were also told that Stephanoni said the bra sample had abundant DNA on it only to find that there are other profiles on that and that it is in the LCN DNA range. That means these 2 items should of been tested in a separate laboratory.

She dismissed alleles as stutters, testified in the first trial that the knife was processed in the middle of 50 - 60 items. Then in the appeal states the machine was sitting for 6 days? There is something very wrong here

 

[SMK]

Being involved by letting him in brings the charge to murder regardless of participating.

I believe Mignini thought/thinks she actually did wield the knife.

Letting someone in, when you did not know they would murder someone, does not make you a murderer. It makes you libel for letting him in. You are not responsible for the other's actions. If she wielded the knife, she could not have been in the kitchen. As the I Ching says, "The words of a man who has lost his standpoint are twisted."

 

[Allusonz]

Yes, this kind of got me angry at Mignini. There is a huge difference from screaming with your hands over your ears in the kitchen, which would be negligence, or culpable involuntary reckless manslaughter, and wielding the knife, which would make one a convicted sex murderer. He did not get the charge right, even by his own admission, and told a jury that Knox made the fatal wound. Awful.

Again though this is being stated after she is told that if she does not co-operate that she is facing 30 years, was refused a lawyer even when she asked if she needed one.

Think of it. She asked if she needed one. That there should give people pause. Then she is asked to imagine being there? Then we have no audio/video to back up what PLE states. Does that give no one pause?

 

[dgfred]

There is no proof they met in the baseball courts instead there is proof they were on a computer.

There is no proof he was let into the cottage. In fact there is no proof presented by the prosecution that the break-in was not staged.

If you are not there how can you call an ambulance or police or help a victim

Since she was asked to "imagine" something that is not proof and is not backed up by the TOD

I find it ironic that no one gives the TOD the time of day. The fact remains the experts testified that she was would of died within 2-3 hours of the start of the meal as the duodenum was empty

There is no evidence except some very scared and naive kids. I can't even find all these lies some speak of as they simply don't exist.

You have the media which played a huge role and were fed misinformation not by a PR machine as so many have tried to state but by PLE specifically MN

WE were debating what the investigators would have thought/done AT THE TIME she accused Patrick. :banghead:

*She said she met him at the basketball court. There is NO proof on the computer of human activity during the time frame of the murder.

*She said he came to the cottage with her. In fact there is significant proof the break in was staged. Only supporters claim otherwise.

*How can the police know you were not there if you SAY you were???

*TOD is not an exact science and can only guess time of death within a certain time frame. No duodenum 'theory' can change that fact.

*The media was fed information from both sides, but the jury ruled on the evidence presented in court... not the media.

This seems like the same kind of circular opinions/theories as yesterday :waitasec: .

Am I having a flashback... or is it a dream?

 

[Allusonz]

Being involved by letting him in brings the charge to murder regardless of participating.

I believe Mignini thought/thinks she actually did wield the knife.

There is simply no proof that he was let into the cottage. Not even by MK. Does everyone forget that MK was there and if indeed he was let in she could of done it herself? I do though doubt that she did

 

[Allusonz]

WE were debating what the investigators would have thought/done AT THE TIME she accused Patrick. :banghead:

*She said she met him at the basketball court. There is NO proof on the computer of human activity during the time frame of the murder.

*She said he came to the cottage with her. In fact there is significant proof the break in was staged. Only supporters claim otherwise.

*How can the police know you were not there if you SAY you were???

*TOD is not an exact science and can only guess time of death within a certain time frame. No duodenum 'theory' can change that fact.

*The media was fed information from both sides, but the jury ruled on the evidence presented in court... not the media.

This seems like the same kind of circular opinions/theories as yesterday :waitasec: .

Am I having a flashback... or is it a dream?

The list of things you have provided right there should tell you she has simply no idea what happened as the timelines could not fit with what we know.

WRONG TOD when enough factors are known which are in this case is reliable and used often

 

[dgfred]

Letting someone in, when you did not know they would murder someone, does not make you a murderer. It makes you libel for letting him in. You are not responsible for the other's actions. If she wielded the knife, she could not have been in the kitchen. As the I Ching says, "The words of a man who has lost his standpoint are twisted."

<modsnip>.

For example: You drive 2 friends to a bank robbery, they commit a murder while inside (you did not know they would murder someone), you are also charged with murder.

In this case: Whether she knew something bad or not would happen. She did nothing to help and did not call for an ambulance afterwards that might have saved Meredith.