Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[Nova]

What about a kidnapping/other prank and cocaine calls. Are they relevant?

Why wasn't Filomena's dna mixed with Meredith's blood in Filomena's room, instead of AK's?

No problem about going on... my point was the same relevance of past behavior/problems/etc is relevant depending on who is judging the relevance.

How do you know FR's DNA wasn't mixed with Meredith's blood? If FR was ever typed for DNA, we haven't heard about it. But as with the bra clasp, there seems to be unidentified DNA all over the house (not surprising for a student share).

 

[sherlockh]

1. 2 different knives.....somehow, that never seemed right. Is it proven? finally and formally?
2. Because she locked the door from the inside, and pocketed the key, and he was trapped? that is why he confronts her? Or he intends to rape her? the sexual motive?:waitasec:

1. There are the different type of wounds from opposing directions, a big kitchen knife and a smaller knife print on the bed, but I will see what comes out of the appeal since the kitchen knife is being questioned.

2. He wasn't trapped. I am supposed to believe that he easily could have come through FR's window so he could just as easily have left that way. They say rape is about control not about sex, but I am not an expert in that area. Yes, he goes to assault and murder her. Only he wasn't alone.

 

[SMK]

I want to know how the staged the rape without RG to provide the DNA that was inside the vagina. Or is this DNA now being contested? I, sadly would not blame anyone for contesting it, but there was some mild bruising to her pelvis, just not enough for them to conclude rape, which I also disagree with them on that.

I had not heard that Guede's DNA found inside MK had been contested. In any case, alot points toward sexual assault, an unwilling victim, whether full-blown rape or no...

 

[Nova]

I don't know, were they wearing gloves?

Did they wipe up some footprints/etc with the towels there?

Were they using AK's lamp to see better?

Did they move about in the blood, or just move the body and take off Meredith's clothes?

DNA was on the bra clasp that was cut off.

DNA was on the knife that was possibly the murder weapon.

Even if AK's dna was all over the place, wouldn't you say it was because she lived there???

Wiping up a footprint usually doesn't prevent luminol from finding the smear.

AK's DNA in MK's room might be inculpatory depending on where it was found. To date, it has not been found. But the idea that AK and RS cleaned up their own DNA while leaving RG's is preposterous.

 

[dgfred]

How do you know FR's DNA wasn't mixed with Meredith's blood? If FR was ever typed for DNA, we haven't heard about it. But as with the bra clasp, there seems to be unidentified DNA all over the house (not surprising for a student share).

I don't, but I know AK's was and the testimony did not mention Filomena's.

Drops of Meredith's blood with another's dna (AK) means alot more to me.

 

[dgfred]

Wiping up a footprint usually doesn't prevent luminol from finding the smear.

AK's DNA in MK's room might be inculpatory depending on where it was found. To date, it has not been found. But the idea that AK and RS cleaned up their own DNA while leaving RG's is preposterous.

I believe there were smears in Meredith's room.

Who said anything about them 'cleaning up their own dna'??? I thought we were talking fingerprints and footprints.

 

[Nova]

I had not heard that Guede's DNA found inside MK had been contested. In any case, alot points toward sexual assault, an unwilling victim, whether full-blown rape or no...

I don't know that it has been formally contested. dgfred was at one point responding to my statement that I don't trust anything Stefanoni says.

His question was whether I trust her in one case but not in another?

The answer is no, I don't trust her, though the sheer volume of RG artifacts helps her case. But I'm not going to be lured into debating RG's conviction. That's something else's problem.

 

[Nova]

I believe there were smears in Meredith's room.

Who said anything about them 'cleaning up their own dna'??? I thought we were talking fingerprints and footprints.

As you wish. Substitute fingerprints and footprints for DNA. Same point.

 

[wasnt_me]

This is what is disturbing to me. Look at this picture:

It is evident that the floor to the left of the pillow has been wiped down. That's where the towels and sheet was clumped up. And it appears that there are some wipe marks on the other side of the pillow. I saw a closeup picture of that side and it looks like the left side of the pillow. One theory was that RG went and got the towels and wiped arond the area to prepare for his rape. I'm not buying that one too tough.

I can only think that he was wiping up his own footprints without realizing that he still had blood on his shoes. Because they said the investigators didn't even see his prints leading out the door until hours after the crime discovery. I'd always wondered and wondered what had happened to MK's footprints, and this is the answer, I guess. Wonder if the bottom of her shoes had blood on them.

This sounds farfetched, but maybe he got AK's lamp to clean by, so that he didn't have to turn on a major light by MK's bed. I don't know what was wrong with that lamp on the floor to the left that Ak's lamp had to be in there AT ALL.

Anyways, I do believe that he was doing whatever he was doing alone because two more sets of eyes would have caught a lot more. I don't think he knew he'd stepped on the pillow for instance or that he'd left something on the bathmat. RS and AK on the other hand, would have seen that and removed it if it incriminated them and they'd been there to clean in the light of day. I also don't believe that if AK didn't know who'd made that print, that she would have left it to chance that it wasn't Rs's. Also, if RS was wearing the shoes that were LIKE RG's on the bottom, I further contend that it would be that much harder to make out his foot prints from RG's and then decide to just leave RG's prints.

 

[wasnt_me]

As for the cuts, now I am confused. I always believed that she DID, as you point out above, have defensive wounds. This is good for the DEFENSE, as it shows Knox and Sollecito were NOT holding her down. Now I see on TJMK that Steve Moore, big pro-defense former FBI agent, is saying she had NO defense wounds, which the Massei report refutes???:waitasec:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...rmer_campus_cop_steve_moore_serially_mischar/

She had them. RG had them.

But somewhere, some report was saying hers had come from falling on glass. That's when we got to talking about that glass fragment that was in her room. You don't remember that?

 

[sherlockh]

Because the front door is locked and won't open without a key.

Because it's one thing to climb up to a second-story window in the dark and quite another to climb back down when one cannot see footholds.

It is actually a lot easier to go down since he can just climb out, hang and drop down. He is 6 feet tall, add 2 feet for his arms and I believe the window was 10 or 12 feet high, so I come to a drop of 2 or 4 feet. Easy.

 

[dgfred]

As you wish. Substitute fingerprints and footprints for DNA. Same point.

I have to call you on this point then:

What is 'preposterous' about them cleaning/wiping footprints or fingerprints?

There were smudges and smears in Meredith's room. There were blood soaked towels. There were barefoot luminol prints in the hallway and at least bloody footprints leading up to the partial bathmat bare print that had to have been cleaned/wiped at some point.

 

[wasnt_me]

I had not heard that Guede's DNA found inside MK had been contested. In any case, alot points toward sexual assault, an unwilling victim, whether full-blown rape or no...

I was asking the question, not stating it as a fact.

 

[wasnt_me]

It is actually a lot easier to go down since he can just climb out, hang and drop down. He is 6 feet tall, add 2 feet for his arms and I believe the window was 10 or 12 feet high, so I come to a drop of 2 or 4 feet. Easy.

Again, we had a person who said they had experience climbing tell us that what you say here is incorrect. Mdana, I think was his name. Do you have experience scaling down walls?

Disbelieving it doesn't mean that the theory is wrong. The only two people who know what happened that night are MK and RG. We can only guess.

 

[Malkmus]

It is actually a lot easier to go down since he can just climb out, hang and drop down. He is 6 feet tall, add 2 feet for his arms and I believe the window was 10 or 12 feet high, so I come to a drop of 2 or 4 feet. Easy.

If Meredith caught him trying to exit the front door which was locked, then he had no choice but to confront her. If he simply took off she knew who he was, would call the cops, and he would be arrested. Unfortunately, he may have found he had no choice but to silence her.

 

[dgfred]

Once a prank or argument goes wrong, and all the participants are seen clearly or identified... that could be a reason to silence Meredith too. Stolen money could also be a reason if the call to police was threatened or assumed.

 

[SMK]

She had them. RG had them.

But somewhere, some report was saying hers had come from falling on glass. That's when we got to talking about that glass fragment that was in her room. You don't remember that?

No. thanks...

 

[sherlockh]

If Meredith caught him trying to exit the front door which was locked, then he had no choice but to confront her. If he simply took off she knew who he was, would call the cops, and he would be arrested. Unfortunately, he may have found he had no choice but to silence her.

Sure, but that is the thing with these arguments. Sometimes you forget how it started. I was simply commenting on mr Hendry who stated Rudy would have gone purposely to Meredith's bedroom where she would have been sitting on the edge of her bed.

 

[wasnt_me]

You know, I think it's healthy to have people with different viewpoints here, because it does help a person to not settle into "group think." Also, legitimate challenges to the evidence brings about a more well rounded view of the evidence.

I just hope we can stick hard to the facts as much as possible.

 

[SMK]

Once a prank or argument goes wrong, and all the participants are seen clearly or identified... that could be a reason to silence Meredith too. Stolen money could also be a reason if the call to police was threatened or assumed.

True. But it seems a very extreme way to silence someone.....With Guede, I had always assumed there was a sexual motive, due to his own words....