Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[SMK]

So are you saying giving a best two hours is best estimate it could be 9:30 - 11:30? Is that right? Or is it plus or minus 2 hours each way... which would be 4 hours?

I haven't seen anything that would show it was exactly 9:30.

Right, the TOD based on stomach contents would as likely be 11:30 pm as 9:30 pm, according to this expert. And perhaps as early as 7:30, although we know where she was at that time. Hendry believes Guede was surprised by her arrival, and rushed at her as she attempted to make a 9 pm call, - the attack is over by 9:12, she is dead by 9:30. It hangs together if you are inclined toward a lone wolf theory. I understand other theories are possible.....but not as probable, or not as common at least....

 

[dgfred]

Well I don't see the argument of time of death as logical if the range is 9:30pm - 1:30am to be exactly 9:30. But I understand why that is proposed.

 

[SMK]

Well I don't see the argument of time of death as logical if the range is 9:30pm - 1:30am to be exactly 9:30. But I understand why that is proposed.

I think Hendry is basing it on the theory that Meredith was attacked very soon after arriving home - in other words, he believes that Guede killed her because he was startled at her arrival, and felt trapped. This is the core of his theory: a botched robbery. And we know, from her friend who walked home, when her arrival would be: Near 9 pm. But 9;30 cannot in any way be based on stomach contents with any precision....

 

[Allusonz]

I think Hendry is basing it on the theory that Meredith was attacked very soon after arriving home - in other words, he believes that Guede killed her because he was startled at her arrival, and felt trapped. This is the core of his theory: a botched robbery. And we know, from her friend who walked home, when her arrival would be: Near 9 pm. But 9;30 cannot in any way be based on stomach contents with any precision....

I believe you may want to do some more research on determining the TOD including the T lag.

There are indeed instances where stomach contents cannot be used to determine TOD. This case though is very different and has some very specific information available. First this autopsy was video taped which showed the duodenum was tied off properly. It as well showed that there was no abnormal pathology. There is a definative time when the meal first started as testified by the MK's friends. There is as well information that the only contents which were found were of that meal that was ate. Different foods have different digestion times. As well, if you are sitting the digestive rate is different than if you are active. Alcohol as well plays a role in digestion which is one example only.

The post mortem was carried out correctly and the stomach/duodenal contents were what was critical in this particular case. As the experts all testified the contents would of passed into the duodenum between 2 -3 hours and by 4 hours slippage would of been noted in the duodenum. This was not only stated by Dr. Lalli but every single expert testified to the same thing

It is my opinion that you cannot compare other cases/estimates unless you have the exact same circumstances. It is as well documented that using stomach contents as a TOD is valid but the pathologist must have enough information and in many cases this cannot be done. This case though it can be as the experts did state in the testimony which you can review. They also had the added advantage of seeing the autopsy and reviewing it.

Again this is an instance where the science does not lie and the T lag simply cannot spread this to the hours of which is being attemped.

If you then add in the circumstantial information of the phone calls, where they pinged and consider especially the 20:13 call which by that time indicated the cell phones were in a different location, the CCTV etc this other information which is available as well supports the experts opinions on the TOD unless this occured in a different location which again is not supported by the blood volume found in the cottage. There is a long list of supporting information. An individual can look all over the internet and find alot of information but the information found must pertain to what is known

 

[Allusonz]

I wonder if they did hair testing? Hair testing shows exact drug use over many years.

Yes they did test her hair and it was negative

 

[Allusonz]

But mayhap is true.....:waitasec:

It was stated that all 4 girls and the boys downstairs all smoked pot

 

[Allusonz]

I posted a link to a site/article naming the lawyer and the circumstances of the case against him. He first came to the attention of law enforcement during the Meredith murder case because his number was on AK's phone as being called both before and after the murder.

Do you have anything contradicting this link? Could you link us to it?

This was gone over in detail quite a few threads back. All the links etc., as well as AK's phone records were posted by I believe it was Malkmus.

 

[Allusonz]

To be honest I don't think the prosecution ever argued it was impossible to scale the wall and gain entry that way. The judge during the pretrial specifically said Guede was capable of doing it and that it would not take Spiderman to do so. Also, the fact that bars were put on that window afterwards is an indication that it is indeed possible.

Needs repeating as the judge dealing with this specific to RG actually rejected the prosecution claim that this was not possible

 

[Allusonz]

Do you have a link to pics of the supposed lawyer's office???

Do you have or know of any pics showing the bars in the lawyer's demonstration for Meredith's murder???

IIRC from looking at pics Frank posted long ago the BOTTOM floor had bars at the lawyers office too/ not the broken into part.... just as the cottage at the time of the murder.

I am not on my computer that has the links to this information at present. When I return home I will post those or if you want them immediately they again are in previous threads

 

[Allusonz]

Hey, in reference to Meredith's memorial service, did any of the female roommates or English friends go? Didn't everyone leave Italy except for Filomena and Amanda? Or am I wrong on that?

The British friends left immediately

 

[Allusonz]

Perhaps he could have handed out flyers too :innocent: .

There is/was evidence presented that both AK and RS were at the crime scene.

IIRC RS was low on his acct/allowance and AK had not been paid yet... that's why didn't have rent money yet.

Any previous prank was not needed as evidence in this case to convict.

The judges/jurors went with the evidence/proof that there WAS a staging. I believe from the evidence I've seen that there was also.

RG could of handed out flyers. Is there supporting documentation?

 

[Allusonz]

How about a couple of pics as proof? :innocent: Or even better some video

footage of him making it through the window?

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=402&start=1250

At the bottom of this page is a pic of the lawyer trying, with law enforcement video filming in the background. SHOULD be some more pics and video. After that post there is also some interesting IMO posting regarding the nail the lawyer is gripping on his try.

Is there supporting documentation that he did not make it through the window? Or do you believe he just jumped down from that height?

 

[Allusonz]

'Insight into when rents were due' :waitasec: ... no more so than any other person in town.

-So he knew rent was due at the beginning of the month.
-He decides to break into a cottage with nobody home to get 'their' rent money. Why would he do that???
-He is seen breaking in, so he murders the girl that sees him.

That argument doesn't seem logical to me.

:crazy:

In the testimony it was stated that the rents were due at the beginning of the month. It appears what I stated may of been taken out of context

 

[Allusonz]

I think what fred means (correct me if I'm wrong fred) is that AK may have needed the money for a big drug deal or to pay off a drug debt. Hence the calling a dealer before and after the murder/theft.

Which is not reflected in the phone records of AK

 

[Allusonz]

Yes, she can't kick while she's being held down, but can't see the three coordinating their attack and acting in concert such that she would not have kicked, scratched, biten, pulled their hair before they could subdue her..
If by some chance they did manage to subdue her without her doing what I mentioned, then they have to avoid leaving blood splatter/smearing evidence showing they were all there... as well as not leaving some real DNA (beyond low copy number DNA).

Just too many things had to go to perfectly for three people I cannot see working in harmony, and if they had been drinking, using pot, all the less the could work together....

Combine that with RG not implicating AK/RS when he was first captured, that alone has me believing that AK/RS were not involved.

The autopsy results concluded that it took her several minutes to die, as she inhaled her own blood. Her hyoid bone was broken, her superior thyroid artery had been severed by a stab wound, her lungs filled with blood causing asphyxiation and she had suffered bruising to her vagina and perineum

"Murdered British student Meredith Kercher had at least 23 separate injuries on her body

The evidence was disclosed as jurors in the murder trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were shown graphic photographs and video footage of the post mortem on Ms Kercher's body

The forensic pathologist, Dr. Lalli, initially concluded that the pattern of bruises, defensive wounds/cuts, and stab wounds could not indicate whether one or multiple attackers had been present. There were larger cuts on her right hand, possibly as defensive wounds (with no one restraining her right hand), but only small cuts on her left hand. Both hands were covered in blood, as if holding her neck after it was stabbed. Dr. Lalli concluded that strangulation was attempted before the stab wounds were made"

http://toestraighteners.com/murder-of-meredith-kercher/

 

[wasnt_me]

It boggles the mind how information in this case can be interpreted so differently. And how evidence, even well tested evidence is disputed.

As far as the knife, I'm not sure how Stephanoni can refute what the report says unless she comes up with the documents and information that they say are missing from the file. They even tried to help Stephanoni by assuming that she went by the box's instructions, but I guess that didn't even work in the case of the blade. It worked, apparently, for the handle.

They are contending that she pulled numbers out the blue for the blade, & said there was blood and cells when there wasn't. I don't know that the knife was contaminated. I think she just didn't do the test right, was sloppy with the numbers, and covered her butt by losing sets of the documentation. That's why she didn't want the give it to the defense.

But if she can somehow find the documents, and they are actually the documents for MK's knife test, then that's another story. The only way to explain it is that she lied and reconstructed results based on MK's DNA or I don't even know what, because I can't see how she can take a negative result for DNA and come up with MK's DNA without conscious manipulation.

 

[wasnt_me]

Oh, and also, I wanted to tell you guys I was at someone's house today and I went to the bathroom. While I was in there, I saw a splatter of blood on the floor. I also saw a one inch smear of it on the rim of the tub. Both occupants of the house and their cats were just fine and in the other room. I saw no need to call the police, and yes, I did think it must have been that one occupant was on her period and didn't notice that she'd splattered. Sorry to be graphic and I could be wrong about what the substance was, but the incident made me think of AK.

 

[SMK]

Oh, and also, I wanted to tell you guys I was at someone's house today and I went to the bathroom. While I was in there, I saw a splatter of blood on the floor. I also saw a one inch smear of it on the rim of the tub. Both occupants of the house and their cats were just fine and in the other room. I saw no need to call the police, and yes, I did think it must have been that one occupant was on her period and didn't notice that she'd splattered. Sorry to be graphic and I could be wrong about what the substance was, but the incident made me think of AK.

:clap::clap:great observation and non-action!

 

[OldSteve]

Allusonz; Regarding the autopsy results you posted above - Meridith's murder was truly horrible, brutal, beyond words I can come up with!
Having almost drowned in water, I cannot image the pain/fear Meridith felt and suffered drowning in her own blood.

 

[SMK]

Amanda Knox lawyer assists parents in Kelly Denman tragedy

Who dreamed the fates of Amanda Knox and Kelly Denman would collide? They were perfect strangers–two beautiful 20-year-old University of Washington students whose Italian dreams turned into nightmares.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2...assists-parents-in-kelly-denman-tragic-story/