Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[Sonata]

That's always an option, but I don't agree with it, based on RG's half lie half truth story. Like I said, I can't imagine him taking a crap and she not walking in the house and smelling it or noticing that he had the light on in the bathroom when all other lights were off. That crap in that picture we saw looking like it STANK. I'm just thinking she got in the door and smelt something.

Gross but true...

 

[RoseMontague]

Same old same old from PMF. You would think there had been no refutations at all. :waiting::waiting: I wish the verdict would come in Sep, and convictions be overturned , and no appeal from Prosecution. Would like to see this case wrap...

(copy and paste from The Machine)

I think it will boil down to how Hellman and the jury view all: Either as PMF and TJMK do, or as Hendry et al do; there seems to be no middle ground. And their minds must be made up at this point.

I am a new poster here. What is the consensus at Websleuths? Are there some that are still arguing for guilt?

 

[SMK]

I am a new poster here. What is the consensus at Websleuths? Are there some that are still arguing for guilt?

Hi, and welcome! I would say the general consensus here is divided, so not really a consensus but two lines of thought ; with one camp believing in innocence, and a smaller camp holding formidably to guilt. I read often at Perugia Murder file and they are holding steady to what seems to me to be a lot of refuted material. As I have said before, I think with Hellman and the jury, they must already have reached their own consensus. To my thinking, "doubt in favor of the accused" must surely hold with Knox and Sollecito, but as there are so many intelligent people who somehow have the need to interpret absolute guilt, I am taking nothing for granted here, Rose.

 

[RoseMontague]

Hi, and welcome! I would say the general consensus here is divided, so not really a consensus but two lines of thought ; with one camp believing in innocence, and a smaller camp holding formidably to guilt. I read often at Perugia Murder file and they are holding steady to what seems to me to be a lot of refuted material. As I have said before, I think with Hellman and the jury, they must already have reached their own consensus. To my thinking, "doubt in favor of the accused" must surely hold with Knox and Sollecito, but as there are so many intelligent people who somehow have the need to interpret absolute guilt, I am taking nothing for granted here, Rose.

What evidence has not been (sufficiently) refuted, in your opinion?

 

[SMK]

What evidence has not been (sufficiently) refuted, in your opinion?

I think in terms of upholding the convictions, none of it stands which is sufficient to that end. So nothing has not been sufficiently refuted, IMO. I am thinking not only of the bra clasp and the knife, but such things as the scream heard, the shop owner who claims Knox came early in the morning to buy bleach, the bleach receipts, the computer activity, the accusation of Patrick, the supposed confession, the changing stories, the supposed fact of Sollectio not calling 112 until after the postal police arrived, the relationship between Kercher and Knox deteriorating, the washing of laundry in the machine, the belief that a lone wolf could not have committed this crime, the mixed blood , the footprints: ALL has crumbled, in my opinion....There is no sufficient evidence to link Knox and Sollecito to the crime. This I concluded after much, much reading and researching of both sides.

 

[RoseMontague]

I think in terms of upholding the convictions, none of it stands which is sufficient to that end. So nothing has not been sufficiently refuted, IMO. I am thinking not only of the bra clasp and the knife, but such things as the scream heard, the shop owner who claims Knox came early in the morning to buy bleach, the bleach receipts, the computer activity, the accusation of Patrick, the supposed confession, the changing stories, the supposed fact of Sollectio not calling 112 until after the postal police arrived, the relationship between Kercher and Knox deteriorating, the washing of laundry in the machine, the belief that a lone wolf could not have committed this crime, the mixed blood , the footprints: ALL has crumbled, in my opinion....There is no sufficient evidence to link Knox and Sollecito to the crime. This I concluded after much, much reading and researching of both sides.

I would tend to agree with you on most of this. I don't think there is anyway to prove Amanda's false accusation of Patrick was coerced and I don't believe the judge is going for any more expert reviews so the computer activity would be a matter of the court deciding based on the existing evidence as well as the supplemental evidence the defense filed.

 

[SMK]

I would tend to agree with you on most of this. I don't think there is anyway to prove Amanda's false accusation of Patrick was coerced and I don't believe the judge is going for any more expert reviews so the computer activity would be a matter of the court deciding based on the existing evidence as well as the supplemental evidence the defense filed.

Do you personally see the convictions being overturned by Judge Hellman and his jury? ETA:Also, do you happen to know if the verdict is still planned for Sep., or has it been moved to Oct/Nov?

 

[RoseMontague]

Do you personally see the convictions being overturned by Judge Hellman and his jury? ETA:Also, do you happen to know if the verdict is still planned for Sep., or has it been moved to Oct/Nov?

Yes,
I believe the judge selected the three key items to review, the bra-clasp, knife, and heroin addicted drug dealing homeless park bench bum. I think it will be over soon and Raffaele and Knox can go home. I wish I could be certain of this but there is only my opinion.

 

[SMK]

Yes,
I believe the judge selected the three key items to review, the bra-clasp, knife, and heroin addicted drug dealing homeless park bench bum. I think it will be over soon and Raffaele and Knox can go home. I wish I could be certain of this but there is only my opinion.

Yes, the uncertainty is very taxing. I hope we are correct in our optimism, and that it will be over soon.....

 

[RoseMontague]

It should have been over 14 September 2009 with the motion to void the trial that is outlined in Frank's "Too Low" post.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100806235709/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/09/too-low.html

Transcript attached

 

[SMK]

It should have been over 14 September 2009 with the motion to void the trial that is outlined in Frank's "Too Low" post.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100806235709/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/09/too-low.html

Transcript attached

:goodpost: But.......I hope things do not go wrong once more, as there was every reason to listen to Mr. Sfarzo in 2009.....

 

[SMK]

I read something interesting on JRandi forums, regarding a question as to why Hellman did not review other evidence findings. Someone proposed that it must be either :a) he accepts the previous courts findings OR b) he felt without the knife and bra clasp, the rest in the bathroom and floors elsewhere aren't important - with b) being proposed as the most likely reason. I hope so, because it makes a great deal of difference.

 

[RoseMontague]

I read something interesting on JRandi forums, regarding a question as to why Hellman did not review other evidence findings. Someone proposed that it must be either :a) he accepts the previous courts findings OR b) he felt without the knife and bra clasp, the rest in the bathroom and floors elsewhere aren't important - with b) being proposed as the most likely reason. I hope so, because it makes a great deal of difference.

I think it means he feels there is sufficient evidence in the court record and appeal filings to make a decision on the other evidence. It's a new trial, it just doesn't require the evidence to be retaken. The judge is free to come to a completely different conclusion than Massei based on the same evidence.

 

[SMK]

I think it means he feels there is sufficient evidence in the court record and appeal filings to make a decision on the other evidence. It's a new trial, it just doesn't require the evidence to be retaken. The judge is free to come to a completely different conclusion than Massei based on the same evidence.

And I truly hope that he will. And that the matter can end on a just note, and be closed. I do not like the warring factions, and the mania which I have seen on the pro-guilt side. It seems to me to be some kind of projection, and it does not seem reasonable ....as they say on websleuths all the time, "my opinion only". addendum: Massei's logic I do not care for....would like to see a "Hellman Report" and be able to say, as the other side long has, "Go read the report.":innocent:

 

[Allusonz]

They had a lengthy talk over at the James randi board with some exposure numbers.

JREF Forum - View Single Post - Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=215085&page=78

There's more talk over there around page 78 of that link about the technicality of the pics.

Thanks for this wasnt_me. Seems they did use a longer exposure. Why does that not surprise me? I truly have to wonder if this is incompetency or something else at this point

 

[Allusonz]

Of course, I have a song for you and the ear witnesses:

"Hush, hush...keep it down now; voices carry...." --aimee mann.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Darn you !!! I want my voice to carry all the way to Perugia :innocent:

 

[Allusonz]

I am a new poster here. What is the consensus at Websleuths? Are there some that are still arguing for guilt?

:welcome:

hands you a designer straight jacket for this thread :innocent:

 

[Allusonz]

Of course, I have a song for you and the ear witnesses:

"Hush, hush...keep it down now; voices carry...." --aimee mann.

Did I mention I am still awaiting my rubber DVD song collection for this case????

 

[Allusonz]

Latest Dateline report. They are saying the verdict is due next month, so hopefully still Sept.?:waitasec:

http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/watch/id/601316/n/Justice-on-Trial

Ok I don't get this report. They basically spend the entire time speaking to Pisa, Nadeau, and Voght? What is wrong with this picture? Besides the fact that they may as well of said whom their source was

Do like Graham's statement at the end about sources

 

[Allusonz]

I am a new poster here. What is the consensus at Websleuths? Are there some that are still arguing for guilt?

There are basically two sides of opinion here. I have not myself seen from the side that believes they are guilty a coherent thought process that could fit in the timeline and facts known. They are for the most part sticking to the same arguments regarding forensics such as stating that there is mixed blood, that the original DNA findings will be upheld, the numerous lies, varying statements etc.

Alas they will have to speak for themselves