Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #18

[RoseMontague]

I have found the pdf version to the C&V report to be a lot easier to use and it is searchable in that format. The link provided by Katy and Komponisto is here

http://knoxdnareport.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/translation-of-the-conti-vecchiotti-report2.pdf

 

[SMK]

And now I've lost all respect for Steve Moore.

It took this latest Coulter nonsense for him to see her for what she is?!

I know what you mean. She has been spewing lies for years and years; this was just the latest.

There is a good expository writing about her in his piece, though:

But what is more striking than Coulter’s incredible ignorance about the case is her startlingly bigoted assessment of anybody who disagrees with her. She leaves the intelligent reader speechless and just a little afraid.

But this shouldn’t surprise us, really. Coulter is becoming a pariah even to conservatives. Until 2001, for instance, Coulter was a columnist for National Review Online, a sharply conservative publication. But she was fired. Why? Jonah Goldberg, editor at large of NRO said at the time; “We did not ‘fire’ Ann for what she wrote…we ended the relationship because she behaved with a total lack of professionalism, friendship and loyalty.”

Coulter’s syndicated column was dropped by the Arizona Daily Star in August 2005, because, “Many readers find her shrill, bombastic and mean-spirited. And those are the words used by readers who identified themselves as conservatives.”

It’s not simply the bigotry inherent in her statements that is disturbing. It is the propaganda-like nature of her tactics.

 

[emyr]

I would like to know why there is any criticism of the luminol being used on December 18th. The iron in the blood was still present. I was hoping that a biochemist might know something more about whether there was an advantage to using luminol immediately or after a couple of weeks.

I don't know if this has already been answered, but I believe testing later with luminol is done to allow other chemicals time to evaporate, so as not to muddy the evidence. It reduces the amount of chemicals that will react to luminol, I believe.

 

[emyr]

It seems rather obvious that the bloody footprint on the bath mat is not a match to Guede. Therefore, someone else made that footprint.

Really? It looks more like Guede's to me from this example. But I think footprints really are only useful to exclude rather than include. As I have said before.

As to your point about the luminol, I think you are right that 6 weeks is considered optimal. But I do think there are expectations of keeping the crime scene in a more pristine condition than what was done in this case.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I don't know if this has already been answered, but I believe testing later with luminol is done to allow other chemicals time to evaporate, so as not to muddy the evidence. It reduces the amount of chemicals that will react to luminol, I believe.

emyr,

Bleach interferes with luminol, but the effect dissipates in less than a day, IIRC. There are some papers about it in the forensic literature (link to one here). However, it is the only substance of which I am aware for which this is true. I cannot see why one would need to wait six weeks. Here is a quote from the paper by Kent and colleagues (J Forensic Sci. 2003 Jan;48(1):64-7.): "If time allows, an alternative method for reducing interference from hypochlorite bleach is to wait several days until the bloodstains have dried thoroughly, by which time the hypochlorite will have decomposed."
ETA
The paper by Creamer and colleagues entitled, "Attempted cleaning of bloodstains and its effect on the forensic luminol test" in the journal Luminescence, Volume 20, Number 6, 2005, is a good resource.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

emyr,

I cannot find a citation, but my recollection is that Raffaele's family and defense team were doing a good job rebutting the shoeprint evidence during November/December. One has to ask whether or not the police felt that they should look around for more evidence to shore up their case. That may be why they went back on 18 December. These are the same people who released the infamous pink bathroom photo, after all.

 

[otto]

There was a debate here about a month ago about whether Knox could sell her story while in jail. This idea was wrapped into the criticisms of the lawyer representing Meredith and her family ... suggesting that he wanted to keep her in jail because then he could get some part of a financial settlement that the Kercher family was supposedly going to get when Knox told her story from jail. None of it made any sense to me. It was my position that Knox could not give interviews in jail, but I didn't have a link. Today, I have the link:

"... it is illegal in Italy for their daughter, who is convicted of murder, to speak to any media unless, and until, she is freed. She has not yet spoken to any press at any time."

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/09/11/news/update-amanda-knox-will-be-freed-says-italian-pro

 

[SMK]

There was a debate here about a month ago about whether Knox could sell her story while in jail. This idea was wrapped into the criticisms of the lawyer representing Meredith and her family ... suggesting that he wanted to keep her in jail because then he could get some part of a financial settlement that the Kercher family was supposedly going to get when Knox told her story from jail. None of it made any sense to me. It was my position that Knox could not give interviews in jail, but I didn't have a link. Today, I have the link:

"... it is illegal in Italy for their daughter, who is convicted of murder, to speak to any media unless, and until, she is freed. She has not yet spoken to any press at any time."

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/09/11/news/update-amanda-knox-will-be-freed-says-italian-pro

From what I have heard, she did not speak directly to the press, but her attorney conveyed what she had said to him. Thus, these types of pieces are misleading:

Amanda Knox tells Italian newspaper 'some still want to hurt me'


Perugia, Italy – On Friday, Amanda Knox spoke to a local newspaper about her appeal and her hopes for the future. She also noted that after much testimony, many “finally” believe her, but there are still some who “want to hurt” her.

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-na...aper-some-still-want-to-hurt-me#ixzz1XftfbI8Y

 

[otto]

From what I have heard, she did not speak directly to the press, but her attorney conveyed what she had said to him. Thus, these types of pieces are misleading:



http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-na...aper-some-still-want-to-hurt-me#ixzz1XftfbI8Y

I agree that the reporters are not checking their facts. It was reported on Friday that Knox's lawyer was passing along some things that Knox said, but now some reporters have suggested that Knox spoke directly with media. It has always been my impression that Knox could not give prison interviews.

 

[SMK]

I agree that the reporters are not checking their facts. It was reported on Friday that Knox's lawyer was passing along some things that Knox said, but now some reporters have suggested that Knox spoke directly with media. It has always been my impression that Knox could not give prison interviews.

She cannot. I do wonder about a couple of magazine interviews I saw before the appeal. Perhaps prior to the appeals process, she could talk....:waitasec:

 

[otto]

She cannot. I do wonder about a couple of magazine interviews I saw before the appeal. Perhaps prior to the appeals process, she could talk....:waitasec:

I don't think so. Anything reportedly attributed to Knox would have come through her lawyer, her family, or an official (like the policitians that visited her in jail). Just like we are reading today that Knox spoke to reporters ... it isn't true now and it couldn't have been true then either.

 

[SMK]

I don't think so. Anything reportedly attributed to Knox would have come through her lawyer, her family, or an official (like the policitians that visited her in jail). Just like we are reading today that Knox spoke to reporters ... it isn't true now and it couldn't have been true then either.

Well, then those who purportedly tried to cause trouble, have not succeeded.....

 

[otto]

Well, then those who purportedly tried to cause trouble, have not succeeded.....

I guess that also restores Maresca's reputation, as it can no longer be said that he was trying to keep Knox in jail so that she could sell her story and make him rich. It was obviously fantasy from the beginning, since Maresca is a lawyer paid for his services, not a lawyer working for some sort of percentage of whatever money was awarded to the victim's family.

 

[SMK]

I guess that also restores Maresca's reputation, as it can no longer be said that he was trying to keep Knox in jail so that she could sell her story and make him rich. It was obviously fantasy from the beginning, since Maresca is a lawyer paid for his services, not a lawyer working for some sort of percentage of whatever money was awarded to the victim's family.

No, I never believed Maresca had any such motive...

 

[OldSteve]

And now I've lost all respect for Steve Moore.

It took this latest Coulter nonsense for him to see her for what she is?!

Sad to read this; that you lost all respect for Steve....

 

[otto]

It seems that some people actually believe that Knox was a suspect because she flipped a cartwheel and that she was interrogated for 56 hours straight ... I wonder what websites the author has been reading.

"Knox’s family was practically turning cartwheels over the development — just as Knox herself was reported to have turned cartwheels at the police station when first brought in for questioning over her roommate’s murder.

It was this weird behaviour that instantly got her pegged as a prime suspect by Mignini. And, oh yeah, there was a signed confession too, squeezed out during some 56 hours straight of interrogation in which Knox admitted that she had been in the flat when Kercher was killed, had heard the victim’s screams but stuck her fingers in her ears, and knew the identity of the murderer."

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1052267

 

[Allusonz]

It seems that some people actually believe that Knox was a suspect because she flipped a cartwheel and that she was interrogated for 56 hours straight ... I wonder what websites the author has been reading.

"Knox’s family was practically turning cartwheels over the development — just as Knox herself was reported to have turned cartwheels at the police station when first brought in for questioning over her roommate’s murder.

It was this weird behaviour that instantly got her pegged as a prime suspect by Mignini. And, oh yeah, there was a signed confession too, squeezed out during some 56 hours straight of interrogation in which Knox admitted that she had been in the flat when Kercher was killed, had heard the victim’s screams but stuck her fingers in her ears, and knew the identity of the murderer."

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1052267

Once again I simply have to shake my head over the blatantly false information which continues to be spread with respect to this case. Some should simply be ashamed of themselves

Individuals on both sides of this discussion know that AK was not interrogated for 56 hours straight yet for some it remains a fact in some minds thus I must start to ask myself why does this continue? What is the reasoning behind it? To what end? What is the real purpose behind this? I can't even state that this 56 hour continuous interrogation is a group mentality as I have seen many that believe them to be guilty not stating this to be fact but fallacy.

What I have found to be very troubling is the lengths some people have gone to which is beyond trying to find the truth about an individual that was murdered. It sickens me to the very pit of my stomach to read tweets about death threats, individuals places of work being phoned/emailed, stalking of individuals ,family members and people associated in various capacities being harassed. The world we live in has enough problems without adding to them

I have oft stated that this will be a case that will be used as a case study. Most might think I am referring to the issue of DNA, or other facets such as different legal systems and I am but not exclusively as this has gone beyond these. I guess time will be the judge...

 

[Allusonz]

I have found the pdf version to the C&V report to be a lot easier to use and it is searchable in that format. The link provided by Katy and Komponisto is here

http://knoxdnareport.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/translation-of-the-conti-vecchiotti-report2.pdf

Thanks so much for this link. Much easier!!

 

[Allusonz]

emyr,

Bleach interferes with luminol, but the effect dissipates in less than a day, IIRC. There are some papers about it in the forensic literature (link to one here). However, it is the only substance of which I am aware for which this is true. I cannot see why one would need to wait six weeks. Here is a quote from the paper by Kent and colleagues (J Forensic Sci. 2003 Jan;48(1):64-7.): "If time allows, an alternative method for reducing interference from hypochlorite bleach is to wait several days until the bloodstains have dried thoroughly, by which time the hypochlorite will have decomposed."
ETA
The paper by Creamer and colleagues entitled, "Attempted cleaning of bloodstains and its effect on the forensic luminol test" in the journal Luminescence, Volume 20, Number 6, 2005, is a good resource.

We as well saw various PLE walking from the outside into the cottage repeatedly. I am not sure what the composition of the soil is there that is just one other item though that has popped into my head.

The only other thing I wanted to mentioned is that whenever possible you are to work the crimescene from the outside perimeter to the inside whenever possible. Again this is not what happened in this particular case

 

[Allusonz]

emyr,

I cannot find a citation, but my recollection is that Raffaele's family and defense team were doing a good job rebutting the shoeprint evidence during November/December. One has to ask whether or not the police felt that they should look around for more evidence to shore up their case. That may be why they went back on 18 December. These are the same people who released the infamous pink bathroom photo, after all.

Yes it was RS's family that noted that the number of rings in the prints did not match what was at the crime scene and simply took the time to count them

Again I simply shake my head at the pink bathroom picture