Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #18

[Fulcanelli]

Well in that case what are you suggesting they were waiting for? You think they were waiting outside for Meredith so that she wouldn't see them for what purpose? Or waiting for Guede for what purpose?

I fail to understand why they would want to wait outside for people that were coming to AK's flat for which she had the keys. Why not just wait in the flat for either MK or RG?

Like I said, my personal belief (which is supported by a range of clues) is that they were planning on playing a 'prank'. For that, three things needed to be in place...Meredith needed to be home and alone at the cottage, and all those who were going to take part in playing the prank needed to be present. There also perhaps needed to be some last minute discussion on how they were going to play it. I believe it was these things they were waiting for.

If they waited 'in' the flat, then they couldn't surprise Meredith (if she was already home or arrived home while they waited) with their prank...could they? The prank depended on surprise.

 

[Fulcanelli]

The call was around 12:45 PM in Perugia, which is 4:45 AM in Seattle. Comodi made it as noon in Perugia and 3 AM in Seattle. Did Comodi have access to Amanda's phone records and Google? If yes, then what is her excuse for pushing the time of the call forward by nearly two hours? Do you have one scintilla of proof that the things you listed in your second paragraph did not happen?

Yes, and she was being 'general'. !2:45 is around midday.

45 minutes isn't two hours.

 

[Sonata]

Like I said, my personal belief (which is supported by a range of clues) is that they were planning on playing a 'prank'. For that, three things needed to be in place...Meredith needed to be home and alone at the cottage, and all those who were going to take part in playing the prank needed to be present. There also perhaps needed to be some last minute discussion on how they were going to play it. I believe it was these things they were waiting for.

If they waited 'in' the flat, then they couldn't surprise Meredith (if she was already home or arrived home while they waited) with their prank...could they? The prank depended on surprise.

What prank do you think they intended to play?

 

[RoseMontague]

It was in the evidence file that was in the possession of the court and considered by the court. And not being in court yourself, I don't think you you can be certain which specific item was definitely not presented.

I can be sure that the picture I posted was presented in court because it is part of Stefanoni's powerpoint presentation she presented in court. My personal opinion is that sometimes your credibility suffers because you dispute even the obvious stuff like that pink picture being completely misleading.

If the prosecution tried to pass that off in court as the pink stuff showing blood
then they really are lying liars.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Her testimony seems to me to be somewhat evasive on this issue: (Google translation)



You would think that she would look at it under the scope. I don't understand why this was not done.

Why would she want to look at it under the scope? Her aim was to find a scratch, she found it, she didn't need a scope. Her next aim was to sample it for DNA, she didn't need a scope for that either.

As for her testimony, why are you using Google Translate when you'll mind her testimony on the matter in the Massei Report (along with Massei's view on that testimony), which has been translated to English?

 

[Fulcanelli]

The Kastle-Meyer test uses the oxidation of phenolthalin (colorless) to phenolthalein (pink), which the pseudoperoxidase activity of hemoglobin can catalyze (with hydrogen peroxide as the oxidant). However, if you leave the Kastle-Meyer reagent in the air too long, oxygen from the atmosphere will bring about the oxidation on its own. If this test and photograph had any value as evidence of blood, it would have been introduced at the trial, being the strongest evidence of a cleanup. The fact that it was not introduced at the trial suggests that ILE knew that the pink color was meaningless.
ETA
More on presumptive versus confirmatory testing here.

I doubt the police would be taking pictures of crime scene tests that had expired and including them in the case file, do you? That is not the purpose of the crime scene photographer. I think therefore we can conclude that the photo was taken during the test during its reaction with blood.

Again...someone else who was never at the trial declaring what wasn't produced. And I'll repeat, produced or not, it would have been in the case file, all of which would have been scrutinised by the court. What the prosecution and the defence chooses to specifically present for discussion is optional on their part and it doesn't then immediately follow that anything they choose not to raise for debate is invalid, doesn't exist or is irrelevant.

Indeed, Judge Massei included several elements in his report as important elements, that were not discussed in open court. In fact, I can still recall the Knox family crying foul about that (they seemed to be under the mistaken belief that only those things discussed can be used in the judgement...not so).

 

[Fulcanelli]

I get your point but I think it excludes both people who are less than intelligent and people who are stubborn/closed-minded. There are plenty of them about. Some people will only look into things that back up their opinions and tactically avoid or slam those that don't. That is one of the things I like about this thread - there is such a mix of opinion that even if you disagree with someone you are confronted with the opposing view and all of its supporting evidence.

Yes, I was influenced. I had thought it was pretty clear cut that AK and RS were guilty and that it was merely a matter of tying up a few loose ends.

Are you UK based? Would be nice to have a fellow brit here

Well personally, I don't think the views of those who are less than intelligent or are closed minded matter either. Who listens to those people anyway apart from other less then intelligent or closed minded people?

Yes, I'm in England.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Yes, and she was being 'general'. !2:45 is around midday.

45 minutes isn't two hours.

Comodi got the time difference between Perugia and Seattle wrong. I acknowledge that it is possible to mess this up because Italy and the U.S. leave daylight savings time and return to standard time on different dates. However, she still made it sound as if the call happened at 3 AM Seattle time which is about 1 hour and 45 minutes prior to when the call actually happened.

 

[Sonata]

Well personally, I don't think the views of those who are less than intelligent or are closed minded matter either. Who listens to those people anyway apart from other less then intelligent or closed minded people?

Yes, I'm in England.

Personally, I think social responsibility matters and I do not find the publishing of such images without proper explanation to be socially responsible.

Whether we like it or not, there are many stupid people in high places, and I think even those who aren't are worth considering! I'm not sure why you're arguing with me over this if you don't think it is relevant as a non-courtroom issue.

 

[RoseMontague]

I doubt the police would be taking pictures of crime scene tests that had expired and including them in the case file, do you? That is not the purpose of the crime scene photographer. I think therefore we can conclude that the photo was taken during the test during its reaction with blood.

You can conclude that. I seriously doubt anyone else will.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I see one article that says genetic traces and another that says traces. I think I'll go with the Wednesday quote from Maresca that says no DNA on the blade. All the quotes I gave you were from your site and on Wednesday which is more current than Monday and Tuesday.

I think you should consider making an edit to your blog posting. When I get the transcripts I will post it.

I see...you won't read the thread then. You won't have a full understanding of what took place unless you do, I can't emphasise that enough. And I say again, DNA was found on the blade, it wasn't tested and a profile extracted but it could have been extracted. Hence all the fuss from the prosecution.

Actually, it's dangerous saying Wednesday is more current then the previous days. The reporting for Wednesday is about what took place on Wednesday, the reporting on the previous days is about what took place on those days and what took place on those days is important and not invalidated by what took place on Wednesday.

Which blog posting...the one regarding the room, or the one regarding the events at the recent hearings?

 

[Fulcanelli]

What prank do you think they intended to play?

One where they burst into the house as a gang to make the occupant thinks she was being assailed by a gang of intruders. That's the prank Knox has been reported to have played on her housemate in Seattle just a few months before...they wore ski masks for that one.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I can be sure that the picture I posted was presented in court because it is part of Stefanoni's powerpoint presentation she presented in court. My personal opinion is that sometimes your credibility suffers because you dispute even the obvious stuff like that pink picture being completely misleading.

If the prosecution tried to pass that off in court as the pink stuff showing blood
then they really are lying liars.

Does a picture have to be part of a powerpoint? And you acknowledge that quite a few powerpoints have been shown throughout all the hearings...do you claim to be in possession of all of them?

The pink stuff does show blood. That's what it's meant to do. It's a blood test.

 

[Sonata]

One where they burst into the house as a gang to make the occupant thinks she was being assailed by a gang of intruders. That's the prank Knox has been reported to have played on her housemate in Seattle just a few months before...they wore ski masks for that one.

Who reported that? First I heard of it.

Any reason why they would include RG in this having barely spoken to him and how exactly that would escalate to them murdering MK rather than MK injuring them? Seems like that would work the other way round.

 

[RoseMontague]

I see...you won't read the thread then. You won't have a full understanding of what took place unless you do, I can't emphasise that enough. And I say again, DNA was found on the blade, it wasn't tested and a profile extracted but it could have been extracted. Hence all the fuss from the prosecution.

Actually, it's dangerous saying Wednesday is more current then the previous days. The reporting for Wednesday is about what took place on Wednesday, the reporting on the previous days is about what took place on those days and what took place on those days is important and not invalidated by what took place on Wednesday.

Which blog posting...the one regarding the room, or the one regarding the events at the recent hearings?

I read your site several times a week and the quotes I gave were on your site and provided by you. Do you think Maresca lied?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Comodi got the time difference between Perugia and Seattle wrong. I acknowledge that it is possible to mess this up because Italy and the U.S. leave daylight savings time and return to standard time on different dates. However, she still made it sound as if the call happened at 3 AM Seattle time which is about 1 hour and 45 minutes prior to when the call actually happened.

Does it matter what time it was in Seattle? I mean, is it really pertinent to the case or the question she was asking Knox? An hour or two out, it makes no difference, the call still went to Seattle in the early hours of the morning and you're not going to make a call to toyr parents at that time unless it's extremely important and that being the case, you're going to remember making it. These are the essential points Comodi was trying to make and those points are valid.

 

[RoseMontague]

Who reported that? First I heard of it.

Any reason why they would include RG in this having barely spoken to him and how exactly that would escalate to them murdering MK rather than MK injuring them? Seems like that would work the other way round.

LOL. It was not "reported" at all. It was a lowly comment on a blog post shortly after the murder. You can see it here:

http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/end_of_an_affair#c859964

 

[Fulcanelli]

It is probably a dig at me and not you Sonata. The Machine started this a few days ago saying I was with the fairies.

Actually, it wasn't intended as a 'dig' (or to be rude) to either of you. I meant it simply to say that I find the link between it and the argument trying to be made to be tenuous and vague.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Personally, I think social responsibility matters and I do not find the publishing of such images without proper explanation to be socially responsible.

Whether we like it or not, there are many stupid people in high places, and I think even those who aren't are worth considering! I'm not sure why you're arguing with me over this if you don't think it is relevant as a non-courtroom issue.

Well, blame the papers. That's how tabloids work I'm afraid. The saving grace is that we all know what tabloids are and what to expect from them.

Fortunately, none of the stupid people in high places we need to be concerned about (regarding what the Daily Mail writes) are in the Italian judiciary and in regard to the accused, those are the people that really count...not Daily Mail readers. For the Daily Mail readers, if they are really interested as a result, they will research the case further. And actually, I doubt more then a very few Mail readers that actually saw it even remember it all these tears on. The exceptions are people like you and me, solely for the reason that we have taken an interest in the case.

 

[Fulcanelli]

You can conclude that. I seriously doubt anyone else will.

Only conspiracy theorists would conclude otherwise.

Most normal people, would assume that police take photos of a tests in progress which has a purpose, not expired ones that don't.