Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #18

[Nova]

I too am a little surprised at the reporting on the case that gives the impression that Sollecito and Knox have had their verdicts overturned and there's nothing more to do than complete some paperwork. However, the media isn't making this up out of thin air. They are getting this information from somewhere, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's coming from the family.

Your hatred for the Knox family is disturbing. To my knowledge, the only crime of which they have been accused is the bizarre Italian "crime" of criticizing public officials.

Nothing in statements attributed to them has been more than very cautiously optimistic.

Newspapers and other media outlets are jumping on the "Knox will be released" bandwagon because it is dramatic. If and when the verdicts are upheld, then that will be yet another "Perugia shocker: No Freedom for Foxy Knoxy!"

 

[Allusonz]

No, the certification had nothing to do with 'LCN testing' and the certification was a new one, only having just recently been created. No labs in Italy at the time had them and the Rome lab was the first in Italy to get the certification. Moreover, they had to change nothing nor introduce nothing new to get it as they were fully up to the certification standard. This was all heard in the trial and is in the Massei Report. It isn't an issue, never was.

Italy is the only European country which has not signed the PRUM Treaty. I wonder why?

"The Prüm Treaty was signed between Belgium, Germany, Spain, France, Luxembourg, The Netherlands and Austria to ensure that precise personal information --including for the first time DNA and fingerprints data -- may be exchanged swiftly and efficiently by national law enforcement officers to help combating terrorism and cross-border crime, including illegal immigration. MEPs support the idea of applying the Prüm treaty to all Member States but have approved a number of amendments to ensure that the supplying of data is not made automatically but only "when necessary and proportionate, and based on particular circumstances that give reasons to believe that criminal offences will be committed".

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?language=en&type=IM-PRESS&reference=20070606IPR07542

 

[Fulcanelli]

Is it being stated that Italy is not part of the world. Dang I will have to check my map again. I could of sworn there was a country by that name :giggle:

No, just that countries do not require (or even possess as an option) the kind of certification you seem to think they do.

I was hoping you were going to tell me which lab it was that had a special 'LCN certification'...one in Italy would have been good, but anywhere in the world would have done. I guess you couldn't think of one.

 

[Allusonz]

Since she and her lab are involved in 4.500 crime scene examinations per year, I think she knows all about scrutiny.

And since it was the independent experts that were busted when it came to the prosecution's and victim's experts turn to testify in response, I don't follow.

As for what Hellman believes, we'll find out what he believes when he writes and publishes his report.

I wonder how many of her files will be reviewed after the experts report.....

 

[Allusonz]

No, just that countries do not require (or even possess as an option) the kind of certification you seem to think they do.

I was hoping you were going to tell me which lab it was that had a special 'LCN certification'...one in Italy would have been good, but anywhere in the world would have done. I guess you couldn't think of one.

Italy at the time had no labs certified to do any type of DNA testing as I am quite sure you are aware of

 

[Fulcanelli]

Your hatred for the Knox family is disturbing. To my knowledge, the only crime of which they have been accused is the bizarre Italian "crime" of criticizing public officials.

Nothing in statements attributed to them has been more than very cautiously optimistic.

Newspapers and other media outlets are jumping on the "Knox will be released" bandwagon because it is dramatic. If and when the verdicts are upheld, then that will be yet another "Perugia shocker: No Freedom for Foxy Knoxy!"

Your accusations of 'hatred' are rather hyperbolic, it must be said. I can see no hatred in Otto's post. Perhaps I'm missing it and I need it spelling out for me?

As for the Knox's, the crime they have been accused of is libel, which when I last looked, is also unlawful in America and the UK and people sue each other for it all the time.

 

[Allusonz]

Sorry all work beckons again ....

 

[Fulcanelli]

Italy is the only European country which has not signed the PRUM Treaty. I wonder why?

"The Prüm Treaty was signed between Belgium, Germany, Spain, France, Luxembourg, The Netherlands and Austria to ensure that precise personal information --including for the first time DNA and fingerprints data -- may be exchanged swiftly and efficiently by national law enforcement officers to help combating terrorism and cross-border crime, including illegal immigration. MEPs support the idea of applying the Prüm treaty to all Member States but have approved a number of amendments to ensure that the supplying of data is not made automatically but only "when necessary and proportionate, and based on particular circumstances that give reasons to believe that criminal offences will be committed".

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?language=en&type=IM-PRESS&reference=20070606IPR07542

I don't know, you tell me why. Perhaps they didn't think it was any good. Perhaps it's a great big sinister conspiracy...you tell me. Britain isn't signed to it either. Why is that? Who cares and what has this got to do with the Meredith Kercher case?

 

[Fulcanelli]

I wonder how many of her files will be reviewed after the experts report.....

All her files are reviewed...by her bosses, as well as a range of independent experts. Listening to you, one would think this is the first case she's worked on...like all these people just started the job at the start of the Meredith Kercher case and have worked on that case alone ever since. The shock may be, this case is not the centre of the universe...

 

[Sonata]

All her files are reviewed...by her bosses, as well as a range of independent experts. Listening to you, one would think this is the first case she's worked on...like all these people just started the job at the start of the Meredith Kercher case and have worked on that case alone ever since. The shock may be, this case is not the centre of the universe...

Who said this case was the centre of the universe? Did I miss something?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Italy at the time had no labs certified to do any type of DNA testing as I am quite sure you are aware of

Yes they did, they all were...they all had the documentation that was required at the time. The certification was a new certification that had only just been brought out.

Could you point out what the issue is please? I guess I'm missing what the big problem is.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Who said this case was the centre of the universe? Did I miss something?

Just the people that have been talking about it like it is...I guess.

 

[Sonata]

Just the people that have been talking about it like it is...I guess.

:floorlaugh:

It just made me laugh because a handful of posts ago you accused someone else of posting in hyperbole :crazy:

 

[SkewedView]

No, the prosecution agreed that the disco buses weren't running, but have maintained that the local transport and tour buses were.

It is 'possible' that Curatolo is confusing some details from different nights, however, one of those details is not having seen Amanda and Raffaele together in the park, since by their own admission they had never gone into the park together on any other night.

And actually, if a witness misremembers a detail or two incorrectly, that is not a reason to reject their testimony and in fact judges will often brief juries on that very thing. This is because it is a human fact that people may confuse certain small details. What is the overiding requirement is that their key elements are correct and that the court finds them convincing.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room with regards to Curatolo is that he is a serial witness in murder trials for PLE - are we really supposed to buy that this guy just happened to be a key witness in three seperate murder trials? And with such a patently absurd story? Sorry, but if anyone in this trial is a stranger to the truth, it's probably this guy (well, and the mafia informant 'my brother killed her' dude, whose stories are just as absurd).

This is not to say that the prosecution told the guy to lie, more likely, as with many serial witnesses, he wanted to make himself useful to them in the (obviously futile) hope of being owed 'favors' if he got in trouble (which he did get into, and is paying for it, thus killing any reasonable conspiracy theories, IMO).

 

[Fulcanelli]

:floorlaugh:

It just made me laugh because a handful of posts ago you accused someone else of posting in hyperbole :crazy:

It's not hyperbole, it's an observable fact. Listening to some in discussion, it is as though they believe this case is the centre of the universe to the Italians, that this is the only case they deal with, have ever dealt with and as such are all green and don't know what they are doing in their inferior little system with their inferior little experts and require the input of kindly foreigners on message boards who know best to highlight the errors of their ways and teach them what's what. There is the idea that this is some 'special' case that is going to cause fundamental change in the Italian legal system because it's highlighted all these inferiorities in their system that certain people on message boards seem to think there are. Just for example, one poster just a few posts ago declared it would probably change Dr Stefanoni's career as from now on, everyone will go over her records. Another poster earlier, seemed to think that because of this case, Italy as a nation will have to change its DNA policy. I've seen others moot that this case is going to force all sorts of other changes in the Italian system, like it's some sort of game changing affair. And one doesn't just read it here, but on pretty much any board or comments section Knox supporters tend to gather.

 

[Sonata]

It's not hyperbole, it's an observable fact. Listening to some in discussion, it is as though they believe this case is the centre of the universe to the Italians, that this is the only case they deal with, have ever dealt with and as such are all green and don't know what they are doing in their inferior little system with their inferior little experts and require the input of kindly foreigners on message boards who know best to highlight the errors of their ways and teach them what's what. There is the idea that this is some 'special' case that is going to cause fundamental change in the Italian legal system because it's highlighted all these inferiorities in their system that certain people on message boards seem to think there are. Just for example, one poster just a few posts ago declared it would probably change Dr Stefanoni's career as from now on, everyone will go over her records. Another poster earlier, seemed to think that because of this case, Italy as a nation will have to change its DNA policy. I've seen others moot that this case is going to force all sorts of other changes in the Italian system, like it's some sort of game changing affair. And one doesn't just read it here, but on pretty much any board or comments section Knox supporters tend to gather.

It may seem that way to you, but I am quite sure that nobody genuinely believes that this case is the centre of the universe. I have always found posters on this forum to be above average intelligence.

 

[Fulcanelli]

The 800 pound gorilla in the room with regards to Curatolo is that he is a serial witness in murder trials for PLE - are we really supposed to buy that this guy just happened to be a key witness in three seperate murder trials? And with such a patently absurd story? Sorry, but if anyone in this trial is a stranger to the truth, it's probably this guy (well, and the mafia informant 'my brother killed her' dude, whose stories are just as absurd).

This is not to say that the prosecution told the guy to lie, more likely, as with many serial witnesses, he wanted to make himself useful to them in the (obviously futile) hope of being owed 'favors' if he got in trouble (which he did get into, and is paying for it, thus killing any reasonable conspiracy theories, IMO).

Why is that a problem? Is there an established limit on how many times someone can be a witness to something? The man is homeless. As someone who is homeless, he is forced to sleep in areas where...let's say, criminal elements may gather. And being homeless, no doubt he is treated as many homeless people are...like he's invisible and doesn't exist and as such people may do things when he's in eyeshot, that they wouldn't consider risking doing in front of 'normal' people. And for others, they may even give it the view that 'He's homeless, who will listen to him anyway?'. I am not the slightest bit surprised that he's seen a lot of stuff in the ten years he's been on the streets and it requires no sinister or conspiraloon explanations. The conspiraloon offering at the moment blows itself up, considering Curatolo is in jail...which kind of sabotages the whole idea that he's been acting as a witness because he's in the thrall of the police. If that were so, then he wouldn't be in jail.

The only gorilla in the room is innuendo and innuendo means squat.

 

[Fulcanelli]

It may seem that way to you, but I am quite sure that nobody genuinely believes that this case is the centre of the universe. I have always found posters on this forum to be above average intelligence.

They certainly seem to think it is for the Italians. Like they are all inexperienced amateurs and this is the first 'real' and 'serious' case they've ever had to deal with and it just took a 'real' case to expose what amateurs they are. Luckily though, there's lots of helpful people people from superior countries on message boards to educate the the backward little Italians.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

You do realize that a police tactic used in all parts of the world is to tell witnesses and suspects things that are not true. Prosecutors will release false information to the media in efforts to gather evidence and information. These are facts of life.

otto,

I was obviously not referring to interrogation tactics. The false information I had in mind (the bleach receipt business, the Harry Potter book, the supposedly missing clothing, the supposedly clear CCTV images, the pink bathroom photo, etc.) were primarily, perhaps entirely released after Knox and Sollecito were in custody. At this point ILE had no business releasing information about them, let alone false information.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

From what I have heard, she did not speak directly to the press, but her attorney conveyed what she had said to him. Thus, these types of pieces are misleading:



http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-na...aper-some-still-want-to-hurt-me#ixzz1XftfbI8Y

SMK,

From what I can gather,the examiner article is based on one from Italy, which is a complete fabrication.