Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #21

[Madeleine74]

Thank goodness the judge and jury followed the rules of evidence and standards and didn't go with preconceived notions of what Mignini 'thought' in one of his (5?) changing stories.

Beliefs are not evidence
Feelings are not evidence
Tabloid articles are not evidence
Opinions of lay people is not evidence

This judge and this jury had, at their disposal, all the information, and the evidence they saw did not rise to meet the burden required for a guilty verdict. The forensic evidence was discredited! Discredited by objective 3rd party independent scientists! No one can say these scientists were influenced by anything other than....the SCIENCE!

 

[ziggy]

I believe what Raf said - they had just met and were about to spend the first weekend alone together - and they wanted nothing more than to be alone with each other...they were totally infatuated with one another. The forced sex orgy is in no way consistent with either of their past or present behaviors and as others have said, pot is not pcp y'all. There was no evidence of any sex game conspiracy - there was plenty of evidence that those two were really into each other and no one else.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I believe AK will come forward and explain about the "false confession". I do believe they happen. It is a phenomenon that has been proven, and, not only to mentally ill invidivuals.
Everyone seems to know what they would do in certain situations. Hopefully they will never have to find out. imo

Hopefully she won't come forward for 90 days though. Wait for the prosecutors to let it go by, i can see Mignini twisting anything she says otherwise.

 

[TorisMom003]

No, it's the same racial injustice that happens in America all the time, the white defendants (particularly if they're a cute female) get off, while the black men do the time!
Only one of the right people is still serving time for the murder. Amanda and Raffaele are no innocents!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead::furious:

General statements such as this are completely inaccurate and really do not help anyone. I say this respectfully as I have come to admire you as a poster and enjoy reading your thoughts. I understand that you feel Amanda and Raff were guilty and got away with murder, however, please do me a favor and take a look at the man in your avatar. You have OJ there with Casey. A black man that got away with murder. So my point is that it is not always the "cute white female defendants" that get off. There are times when justice is wrong no matter what the color of the defendants skin is.

MOO

 

[SMK]

@skewedview:Your eloquent and moving post re the Kerchers is most appreciated, and has been lauded by someone on JREF.

 

[gitana1]

OMG - was just listening to JVM who thinks that the prosecutor is a crazy so and so with crazy 'satanic theories' LMAO

Wasn't a crazy satanic theory why the WM3 were found guilty?

Just loving the hypocritical double standards of some American commentators - I mean really you just have to laugh at this BS - and one reason why some American journos are laughed at.

But that's why I think the WM3 are innocent as well. And many people do. Whenever I hear some crazy "satanic theory" I go, "Wait a moment."

Amanda knew Rudy she didn't just meet him that night, as well as smoking joints with him she used to walk past him all the time playing basketball.

So the prosecution said. I don't believe Knox or any third party stated she partied with Guede. Walking by someone isn't the same an knowing someone well.

You may not believe the DNA evidence was corrupted, but the independent scientists appointed by the appeals judge who studied in depth the collection and testing of the physical evidence very much disagreed, and provided a detailed report on why that evidence testing could not be trusted. This judge and jury heard from those scientists (and those people were independent/objective hired by the judge). Beliefs are not evidence. AK wasn't convicted based on Mignini's past indiscretions...she was convicted based on his then-current lies, fantasies, changing theories, and the lead forensic scientist (Stefonini) got CAUGHT lying about blood evidence. All of that is not in dispute.

A prosecutor who lies (and Mignini was CONVICTED of wrongful prosecution in 2008/2009) and a forensic scientist who lies (Stefanoni) is far, far worse than any supposed lies and stories one imagines AK told, in a long interrogation in which there are no witnesses, no proof of what she said, no video, no audio. Mignini and Stefonini lied in open court and on the stand (Stefonini). NO excuse.

Succinct and states it all, IMO. The independent review is a huge part of why I have the opinion that I do about this case.

My point is that I think there were psychological red flags with this selfish, immature, spoiled brat, sense of entitlement girl that would lead to her becoming a murderer! Her parents chose to ignore them, just like the Anthony's did.

Except, there was no evidence of such red flags in this case while there were with casey. And that's very important because that lack of that evidence is part of what makes Sollecito and Knox's involvement in such a group, sexual murder, improbable.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Not in that bathroom! And I wouldn't have been buying lingerie to replace my underwear that was taken!

When I was 19 I didn't even know they still sold the sort of underwear I wear now, except in the back of old peoples magazines.

If I was buying them to go hang out in the woods with bears it would be lingerie..thats all there was at 19

ETA and if she did buy old womens underwear as i call anything cotton and white, (yes i wear them) and she had a boyfriend...THEN I would be suspicious

 

[gitana1]

To respond to Gitana's question about motive from those of us who *think* AK and RS were involved, I don't think they had a motive. I think the only way they were involved was through drugs and something went terribly wrong. I don't believe the intent was to kill, I don't believe it was some sadistic ritual. I'm not sure what I believe happened but I do think drugs were involved, and I think AK was still under the influence of those drugs for the next day or two, hence her odd behavior(s). Did AK and RS actually kill her? I don't know. Were they there/involved in something to do with it? Yes, I think so. I think that's why AK threw out PL's name --- because she knew in her mind that a black male was there but was too stoned to remember who. Maybe they did just meet Guede so she didn't know his name. Maybe she even forgot she met him and could only think of PL at the time of questioning, when trying to figure out who it could have been that was there.

This is all just my opinion and pure speculation - but that's how I see it. I don't see AK as being a cold-blooded murderer but rather someone who got involved with the wrong people and was in the wrong place at the wrong time, with the wrong 'substance use'. As for RS, I'm not sure about him.

So there. Hope that explains what I feel about it. 100% convinced? No. Pretty sure? Yes.

Thank you. That helps me understand where you are coming from. There was no evidence of this, though, but I see that this is your sense and if you believe that, it would make their possible involvement slightly more logical to me (not enough but we're getting there).

 

[Rolfe]

Not in that bathroom! And I wouldn't have been buying lingerie to replace my underwear that was taken!

Ah. You think the picture of the pink-smeared bathroom (covered in a chemical used by the forensics investigators) means that Amanda took a shower in a bathroom that was a bloodbath?

This is untrue. The bathroom looked clean when she showered. The shower was taken before Meredith's body was discovered.

The sex was also before Meredith's body was discovered.

"Lingerie"? That's underwear in my lexicon. What did she buy? She had to buy something, as her underwear wasn't taken, but inaccessible in a sealed-off house. I don't know exactly what she bought, do you? Is there some particular style that suggests a murderer in this situation?

Another complaint was that she kissed Raffaele outside the cottage soon after the murder was discovered. The TV pictures of that show Raffaele comforting a shocked-looking Amanda with cuddles and a peck on the lips.

Another complaint was that she suddenly burst into tears. Seems she can't win - she's either impassive, or over-emotional.

The final behavioural anomaly before she went to the police station was that she and Raffaele were eating pizza.

Even the cartwheels she explained. She was stiff from sitting, and started to do some stretches. One police officer remarked on her gymnastic ability. She demonstrated a bit more. Silly and thoughtless.

I'm having a hard time seeing how this makes anyone a murderer with no physical evidence connecting them to the crime, I have to say.

 

[Tipstaff]

Another factor in the initial investigation was Amanda Knox's use of the Italian language and her understanding and communication in the interogation. She has much improved in speaking Italian during the past 4 years.

 

[Steft50]

No, her point is that the "cute little white girl" gets off because she's<modsnip>!

BBM.
It's nice to know that the proganda machine that began with the CONVICTED criminal prosecutor, Italian media and UK media is still in full swing 4 years later.

 

[darnudes]

But that's why I think the WM3 are innocent as well. And many people do. Whenever I hear some crazy "satanic theory" I go, "Wait a moment."



So the prosecution said. I don't believe Knox or any third party stated she partied with Guede. Walking by someone isn't the same an knowing someone well.

Totally agree there, satanic theories are crazy - in both cases.

Amanda did know Rudy, they smoked joints together, it wasn't just a case of her walking past him occasionally, she met him at the house. If you want I can try and find the statements about Rudy being at the house and partying.

 

[gitana1]

I find this thread interesting and I hope it can stay open. I can see many of us have definitive opinions and can get annoyed with the other side, but we're all friends here and I just want the thread to stay open so can we debate without adding a lot of rage or impoliteness?

I've been guilty of those feelings but try to keep them in check because I love the debate and the subject is very interesting.

 

[gitana1]

Totally agree there, satanic theories are crazy - in both cases.

Amanda did know Rudy, they smoked joints together, it wasn't just a case of her walking past him occasionally, she met him at the house. If you want I can try and find the statements about Rudy being at the house and partying.

I would appreciate that if you know kind of where to find it and it wouldn't be too much trouble! Thanks!!!!

 

[Steft50]

I'm trying to wrap my brain around something that maybe some of you can help me with. Several have condemed Amanda for lying to police in her first statement, and I can truly understand that. She was found guilty of that and the conviction was not overturned.

What I don't seem to understand is that because she lied (one reason) she's guilty of murder, but it seems to be ok for the police to lie, the convicted criminal prosecutor to lie in court, the civil attorneys to lie in court, the woman who was in charge of the forensics to lie in court. Why is that ok? Why are they too not being condemed for telling lies? After all, a lie is a lie is a lie right?

 

[belimom]

Thank you. That helps me understand where you are coming from. There was no evidence of this, though, but I see that this is your sense and if you believe that, it would make their possible involvement slightly more logical to me (not enough but we're getting there).

To be completely honest, it was her attitude. Both of their attitudes. Now that doesn't make them guilty, does it? But we are all human and it does color the lens through which I interpret everything else that was presented.

In recently reading more about Mignini, I'm starting to back off a little from being 100% certain of AK and RS's guilt.

I just cannot for the life of me understand why someone who is being falsely accused doesn't show more emotion or sobbing pleas for justice/release? I guess it's conceivable that after awhile some sort of desensitization occurs: if she was living with these accusations day in and day out, then after awhile you've cried a river and may not have much left. Whereas we only saw glimpses of her and for me I couldn't understand why she wasn't sobbing each time. But I guess one would have to learn how to survive on a day-to-day basis and not grovel in self-pity constantly.

Today is the first time I have seen any emotion that to me - a psychologist - indicated genuine fear and an understanding of the severity of the situation.

I have been given a lot to think about recently and I'll take it all to heart. I am still leaning towards guilty, though, but I do understand how RG could be 100% responsible alone. The story of a robbery gone bad and turned into a rape/murder makes sense and I could see how that could have happened.

God bless the Kercher family - the number one victims here. Well, number two: Meredith was number one...

 

[darnudes]

Thank you. That helps me understand where you are coming from. There was no evidence of this, though, but I see that this is your sense and if you believe that, it would make their possible involvement slightly more logical to me (not enough but we're getting there).

It could have gone down something like this -

Amanda and RS wandering round the streets, decide to go to the house to get some money to buy some more pot, run into Rudy who they know but not well, he says he can hook them up with the drugs, go to the house to get money run into Meredith big fight ensues, things get out of control, Amanda and RS run off and Rudy rapes and kills Meredith, Amanda and RS won't tell the truth because they feel guilty they let Rudy into the house - it would certainly account for all the lies they told and wouldn't make them guilty of the murder - would make them guilty of covering up the crime though which is what I believe they did.

Or

Maybe they set up Rudy to rob Meredith to get the money for drugs and it got out of hand.

There's just too many damn lies from both of them to make them completely innocent.

 

[darnudes]

I would appreciate that if you know kind of where to find it and it wouldn't be too much trouble! Thanks!!!!

Will do, just give me a few mins

 

[alwayslooking]

I do, and its not just an American thing. I remember the reaction of the British media when some British au pair, (forget her name), was on trial in the US for shaking a baby.

good job, she was convicted yet let go......a prime example of what happens with our friends, to keep a good relationship! And that is what happened here in this case!

 

[Salem]

OKAY PEEPS - THIS IS A LAST WARNING!

We don't call names. Amanda's name is Amanda or AK. That's it - there is NO foxy knoxy or whatever else.

Becareful throwing the race card around.

BE NICE or get out of the thread. If you can't post respectfully, then go somewhere else. This thread is busy. Folks want to read, catch up, find out what happened NOT read all the nasty, snarky comments that have nothing to do with anything.

This post lands at random.

Salem