Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #21

[kalekona]

What the prosecutor was saying is that the location of the prints was inconsistent with someone holding the knife while cutting bread.

If there were fingerprints on the knife the argument would be moot- but it wasn't a fingerprint- they were saying DNA "fingerprint" the peaks and valleys that correspond to a certain individual.

 

[Malkmus]

(snip)
In conclusion, even without the knife and bra clasp, we still have a covered body which is a sign of the killer being close to the victim, a locked door which points to the killer living there, a staged crime scene which also points to the killer living there, 5 mixed blood/DNA traces, luminol footprints, bathmat footprint, suspicious behavior/false alibis/false accusation, and several witnesses. I can't believe that any websleuth wouldn't at least be a little bit suspicious. JMO.

Oh, i find those all suspicious pieces of evidence. :winko:

 

[kalekona]

The room wasn't filled with handprints so I guess there was no murder? If you can't identify exactly where they must have left DNA of fingerprints or footprints then it is a rather moot argument. They stabbed Meredith and left the room. They touched the door with blood but that didn't leave any fingerprint. Same goes for the bathroom door and the scene in the bathroom. Whoever touched the q-tip box or the light switch didn't leave a fingerprint. It happens. They didn't stay in the room like RG did when he stepped in blood right next Meredith's wounds.

However, they did get blood on their hands from the stabbings. Amanda did leave a trail of blood and DNA. No less than 5 mixed blood/DNA spots were found. The excuse that that is normal because she lived there is an impossibility. A stranger would leave his DNA mixed with Meredith's blood, not AK's. This excuse was already rejected in the first trial and I don't see why it would be accepted now.

Obviously there is disagreement about the nature of the luminol footprints. During rebuttals AK's defense admitted the footprints were hers but made in soap. RS's defense claimed the male prints were RG's because he lost his shoe during the struggle. Then there is the bathmat print attributed to RS clearly made in blood.

No wounds on RG, RS, AK and lack of defense wounds on MK is actually a prosecutions argument as evidence of multiple attackers.

No bloody clothes goes for all 3. They had enough time to wash them or get rid of them.

AK lived there. Instead of fleeing they chose to stage the crime scene and lie to the police.

In conclusion, even without the knife and bra clasp, we still have a covered body which is a sign of the killer being close to the victim, a locked door which points to the killer living there, a staged crime scene which also points to the killer living there, 5 mixed blood/DNA traces, luminol footprints, bathmat footprint, suspicious behavior/false alibis/false accusation, and several witnesses. I can't believe that any websleuth wouldn't at least be a little bit suspicious. JMO.

Do you realize how much blood would have been on that floor? Clear evidence of all 3 would have been all over that apt.

40 plus stab wounds and injuries to only one person-that just isn't logical that the person the prosecution claims actually did the stabbing had no cuts or bruises.

So you are saying that AK and RS were clever and smart enough to get rid of all of there cloths, shoes and any trace of blood but took the knife back to his place? All that blood but none at RS"s place? Again not logical.

 

[Allusonz]

To play devil's advocate on this:

RG knew the money was in the drawer because an angry MK came out her room and said, "I was going in there to find us some condoms and do you know that AK went in my drawer and stole my money? wait, let me go in the bathroom and steal her condoms!"

His DNA is on the purse because he searched it to find a cell phone to call for help. That's what I'd say if I were him and knew for a fact that I'd taken the cell phones. Maybe he took the phones because she wasn't dead when he left and he thought she'd call the police. Awful.

Cut on his hand, no blood on window or in FR's room. Probably his blood all over those towels they couldn't test.

BBM

Yup the ones they put in plastic bags and let them become moldy. I guess there was not enough room in the cottage freezer

 

[wasnt_me]

So what are you saying? The fingerprints were left over from the murder... and then the rye starch floated through the air and landed on the blade?
:innocent:

What finger prints? I didn't hear fingerprints were on the knife. I thought it was DNA only.

 

[Malkmus]

What finger prints? I didn't hear fingerprints were on the knife. I thought it was DNA only.

I cleared it up, WM... the prosecution said DNA, not fingerprints. You'd think after years of following this case someone would have brought up fingerprints on the knife if that were the case.

 

[wasnt_me]

No prints found on the knife nice try

Others are also misstating some facts, too. I thought the misstatements were just being ignored.

 

[Malkmus]

Do you realize how much blood would have been on that floor? Clear evidence of all 3 would have been all over that apt.

40 plus stab wounds and injuries to only one person-that just isn't logical that the person the prosecution claims actually did the stabbing had no cuts or bruises.

So you are saying that AK and RS were clever and smart enough to get rid of all of there cloths, shoes and any trace of blood but took the knife back to his place? All that blood but none at RS"s place? Again not logical.

Hi, Kalekona. It was 40-some bruises/marks on her body. I believe there were about three stab wounds.

I've never understood how anyone can rationalize the knife as the murder weapon. The DNA on the blade was always questionable, and it never made sense how it got from Raf's to the cottage. Let alone it not matching the outline of the knife found at the crime scene.

 

[Salem]

Actually, I thought this too, but what happened was they tested the knife and it returned an answer of NO DNA, so they did not proceed further. So your real issue is whether or not they blew up the sample large enough to verify that there was really no LCN DNA left.

The original sample was so small, it would be startling to me if there was any. But I could be wrong. The prosecution's complaint was that they did not actually try and see if they could blow up the test to show a result anyway after the machine returned the answer "NO DNA."

Salem, i thought someone had answered this in more detail when you brought it up originally, but I could be wrong. The way I understand it is that the bra clasp is impossible to retest because it is corroded. The DNA on the knife blade was destroyed (not sure of a better word) the first time by stefanoni because it was too small to retest. The knife was not opened because of the starch substance found on the inside where the blade and handle meet. That plus a negative test for blood to them meant no need to open it. I might have this last part wrong so someone else can clarify. I haven't read the C&V report yet, but it answers all this.

Thank you both. This really helps me. I was not concerned about the bra clasp, just the knife and only because it was such a big deal when they first brought up the re-testing and opening the handle. Okay.... now I think I am beginning to understand this. Thanks.

And someone may have explained earlier and I just missed the response. I don't always see every post, especially when you guys are posting like crazy I have to admit I am very interested to see what happens tomorrow. I just have no clue how this is all going to come out.

Salem

 

[Malkmus]

Others are also misstating some facts, too. I thought the misstatements were just being ignored.

The reason I don't ignore the misinformation is so that others, lurkers if you will, aren't misinformed.

 

[wasnt_me]

This must be what you were referring to, Otto:

They will tell you - said Comodi - she could have used it at any other time since she frequented Sollecito's house, but the DNA of Amanda was found in that spot because she wielded it inappropriately”



http://www.libero-news.it/news/829511/Omicidio-Meredith-pm-chi-impugnava-il-coltello-era-Amanda.html

This is absurd. If you grip a knife, your hand goes around the entire handle. how do they determine that a spot where they found DNA indicates she held the handle wrong to cut bread? Anyone also ever think that her grip on the knife changes as she wipes it on a towel and puts it back in the drawer? It wasn't found with bread crumbs on it, because the PLE said it was clean, so she had to have at least wiped it off.

 

[wasnt_me]

The reason I don't ignore the misinformation is so that others, lurkers if you will, aren't misinformed.

Oh, I just didn't see anyone correcting the "mixed blood" statement. I have to go back and find it, but it was not correct.

The statement that there was No sign of a clean up really is incorrect because there were wipe marks on the floor in MK's room. It was done with the bloody towels that were on the floor near the body. I do not know what RG was doing when he wiped up the floor like that.

I got this from FOA right quick:

No. What forensic investigators found was the mixed DNA of Meredith and Amanda in a total of six samples among dozens that were taken. Three of these samples were from the bathroom shared by the two women (the other housemates shared a different bathroom).

All of the mixed DNA samples from the bathroom were visible bloodstains. Most likely they were composed of Meredith's blood mixed with an organic residue containing Amanda's DNA. No test was performed to determine if any of these samples contained the blood of both Meredith and Amanda, and there is no evidence that any of them did.

The other three mixed DNA samples were taken from latent stains revealed with luminol. No test was performed to confirm the presence of blood in any of these samples.

http://friendsofamanda.org/mixed_dna.html

 

[Malkmus]

Thank you both. This really helps me. I was not concerned about the bra clasp, just the knife and only because it was such a big deal when they first brought up the re-testing and opening the handle. Okay.... now I think I am beginning to understand this. Thanks.

And someone may have explained earlier and I just missed the response. I don't always see every post, especially when you guys are posting like crazy I have to admit I am very interested to see what happens tomorrow. I just have no clue how this is all going to come out.

Salem

Your welcome... thank you for doing such a good job of moderating this thread. I know we all act like a bunch of kids sometimes. This is also a silly comment to make, but your avatar reminds me of a certain "Nanny" character from a cartoon I watched as a child, and the only part of her you ever saw were her legs, as that was the point of view of all the "children" she was constantly monitoring. I find the comparison rather fitting.

 

[Allusonz]

Your welcome... thank you for doing such a good job of moderating this thread. I know we all act like a bunch of kids sometimes. This is also a silly comment to make, but your avatar reminds me of a certain "Nanny" character from a cartoon I watched as a child, and the only part of her you ever saw were her legs, as that was the point of view of all the "children" she was constantly monitoring. I find the comparison rather fitting.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Wonders if Salem has any hair left and I am certain if they are confirmed guilty will probably have to take a LOA just for sanity sake. As well must thank you and JBean even when I pull bonehead blonde moment stunts :innocent:

 

[wasnt_me]

So wait, this thread won't close after the appeal decison? hee hee....

 

[BaileyandBella]

Does anyone know if CNN (sometimes changes to "CNN International") will be showing this tonight?

 

[wasnt_me]

Amanda escorted into court room:

http://www.timesonline.com/news/wor...cle_9af3a877-97db-5de7-b7cb-cd918d94a43f.html

So it's 8am there.

You know what's so weird? I wonder if she and RS have any idea how any people are up late at night, there for them--or against them. It's just weird that so many around the world are watching with breath that is baited (sex in the city quote).

The jury has several options as they go into deliberations: They can acquit both defendants and set them free. They can uphold the conviction and confirm the sentence, reduce it or increase it. They can theoretically decide to split the fate of Knox and Sollecito, convicting one and acquitting the other. Presiding Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellmann is expected to lead the discussion.

 

[Salem]

I thought it was going to be live streamed - BUT I'm never sure about these things.

I was just checking in to see who was up and ask who might be following this tonight?

I expect when I get up, there will be a verdict and this thread will be in major melt-down, regardless of the decision.

So here is fair warning: NO GLOATING FROM EITHER SIDE - none, nada, zip.

If you feel you must gloat, please do it anywhere but here. Please.

Thanks!

Salem

 

[wasnt_me]

Oh, I do not want to wake up to the verdict, Salem, but I gotta go to bed!

 

[wasnt_me]

This says soemthing about a live stream, but i can't speak italian, so...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/live-video/index.html